SNCB to Maubeuge / Aulnoye

[tynesider]

Hi all.

A year or two ago, SNCB started running across the border into France to give connections from Mons, Namur and Charleroi to Paris, changing at the above stations, using non-high speed services. The timetables clearly provide connections into the same SNCF trains, however I'm intrigued as to what the stock and crews actually do between runs given long layover times in France. As I understand it, the services are:

IC19208 06:15 Mons - Aulnoye Aymeries 06:42
IC19201 09:17 Aulnoye Aymeries - Mons 09:45
IC19232 17:06 Mons - Aulnoye Aymeries 17:33
IC19229 21:15 Aulnoye Aymeries - Mons 21:45

and

IC19808 05:19 Namur - Charleroi - Maubeuge 06:26
IC19801 09:30 Maubeuge - Charleroi - Namur 10:54
IC19832 16:08 Namur - Charleroi - Maubeuge 17:26
IC19823 21:32 Maubeuge -Charleroi - Namur 22:37

Do the SNCB crews simply sit around for several hours in France before working back?

To me, it would seem logical for the Aulnoye trains to run back to Mons and the services from Maubeuge to at least run back to Charleroi, enabling SNCB to be back on Belgian soil and more productive!

I've covered a lot of the Belgian rail network and these services are on my to-do list post-COVID.

 

[Jamesrob637]

A Corail was definitely running Paris-Maubeuge in the early-00s. It's probably a nondescript pile of plastic unit now. Does this provide a good connection in Maubeuge?

 

[30907]

Hi all.

A year or two ago, SNCB started running across the border into France to give connections from Mons, Namur and Charleroi to Paris, changing at the above stations, using non-high speed services. The timetables clearly provide connections into the same SNCF trains, however I'm intrigued as to what the stock and crews actually do between runs given long layover times in France. As I understand it, the services are:

IC19208 06:15 Mons - Aulnoye Aymeries 06:42
IC19201 09:17 Aulnoye Aymeries - Mons 09:45
IC19232 17:06 Mons - Aulnoye Aymeries 17:33
IC19229 21:15 Aulnoye Aymeries - Mons 21:45

and

IC19808 05:19 Namur - Charleroi - Maubeuge 06:26
IC19801 09:30 Maubeuge - Charleroi - Namur 10:54
IC19832 16:08 Namur - Charleroi - Maubeuge 17:26
IC19823 21:32 Maubeuge -Charleroi - Namur 22:37

Do the SNCB crews simply sit around for several hours in France before working back?

To me, it would seem logical for the Aulnoye trains to run back to Mons and the services from Maubeuge to at least run back to Charleroi, enabling SNCB to be back on Belgian soil and more productive!

The trains are clearly timed to provide connections to and from Paris (BTW the evening Namur train runs earlier SX) , and if they ran back to Belgium during their layover time they would be carrying fresh air. Given that the rest of SNCB operates an intensive interval timetable, I can't see what the stock or crew would do in Mons or Charleroi, so it wouldn't be particularly productive.

 

[tynesider]

The trains are clearly timed to provide connections to and from Paris (BTW the evening Namur train runs earlier SX) , and if they ran back to Belgium during their layover time they would be carrying fresh air. Given that the rest of SNCB operates an intensive interval timetable, I can't see what the stock or crew would do in Mons or Charleroi, so it wouldn't be particularly productive.

My thinking is that there would be more opportunities to work other SNCB services (moreso the crew, as you mention the standard interval timetable) once back in their own country, whereas there would be absolutely nothing for them to do whilst they sit in France.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I think it is part of a longer game by SNCB to introduce through service to Paris again over the classic route, once the French rail market is liberalised.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/fran...es-to-be-enhanced-from-december/46800.article

EUROPE: Amid concern from policymakers and rail advocates about the extent and quality of cross-border passenger services in Europe, SNCB is to reintroduce conventional services linking Charleroi and Mons with Maubeuge and Aulnoye in France from the December timetable change.
Direct inter-city trains had linked Paris with the Wallonie region of Belgium for many years until 1997, when these were replaced by Thalys high speed trains routed via the so-called dorsale Wallonne. However, Thalys has not served Mons, Charleroi and Namur since 2015 citing a lack of rolling stock equipped with the relevant train control and protection equipment.
At a board meeting on June 29, SNCB gave final approval to launch an initial pair of return trains per day on the Namur – Charleroi-Sud – Maubeuge and Mons – Aulnoye routes. These would connect at Maubeuge and Aulnoye with existing SNCF inter-city trains to and from Paris-Nord. These services together would offer a more flexible and direct route than travelling via Brussels or Lille, albeit with an initial journey time penalty of around 30 min for a Namur – Paris journey compared to using high speed trains.
SNCB says that it expects to introduce ‘in a future phase’ direct trains to and from Paris that would reduce the journey time disparity to less than 15 min.
‘I am delighted that these two routes are being launched in December’, said Belgian Federal Minister for Mobility François Bellot. ‘By offering a cheaper and more flexible option, the trains will be able to attract a varied customer base, from the commuter to the student to the tourist, and will serve as an important driver of regional development.’

 

[Bikeman78]

A Corail was definitely running Paris-Maubeuge in the early-00s. It's probably a nondescript pile of plastic unit now. Does this provide a good connection in Maubeuge?

I remember there were some oddball workings along the Liege-Namur-Charleroi corridor into France hauled by class 15. Sometimes a 26 would turn up, with a loco change at Jeumont. I expect the current Belgian service is worked by dual voltage AM96 units or possibly dual voltage Desiros.

 

[30907]

My thinking is that there would be more opportunities to work other SNCB services (moreso the crew, as you mention the standard interval timetable) once back in their own country, whereas there would be absolutely nothing for them to do whilst they sit in France.

Might be possible with the evening Mons run, if there happens to be some slack diagramming at Mons.

 

[MarcVD]

I remember there were some oddball workings along the Liege-Namur-Charleroi corridor into France hauled by class 15. Sometimes a 26 would turn up, with a loco change at Jeumont. I expect the current Belgian service is worked by dual voltage AM96 units or possibly dual voltage Desiros.

On Liege-Paris, trains were hauled by HLE 15 or 18. Almost never by HLE 16. At the end, sometimes also by HLE 12. Today, yes, those trains to Aulnoye are AM 96 441-490. As far as I know, the bi-courant installations in Jeumont are out of service, and in Quevy totally dismantled, so such loco exchanges would be impossible today.

 

[CW2]

Back in 1995 I started a trip to Germany (bashing 103s and 232s) by doing the Blankenberge - Maubeuge "bucket and spade" train hauled by 5148. All came to a sudden halt leaving Quevy, the last shack before the border, with a DSD fault on the loco. Seeing my carefully-planned bash collapsing to dust, I hoped the loco would get battered quickly. After several attempts, resulting in emergency stops, another solution was found. The DSD was isolated, but that meant the loco had to be double-manned. That required the guard to ride on the loco, so the guard - knowing I was rail staff - gave me an instant promotion from cranky passenger to acting guard, including operation of the power doors on the stock. So for a short while I was the guard of an international service. Thankfully we made the connection into the overnight Paris - Hamburg at Maubeuge. Quite a memorable start to the trip.

 

[Bikeman78]

On Liege-Paris, trains were hauled by HLE 15 or 18. Almost never by HLE 16. At the end, sometimes also by HLE 12. Today, yes, those trains to Aulnoye are AM 96 441-490. As far as I know, the bi-courant installations in Jeumont are out of service, and in Quevy totally dismantled, so such loco exchanges would be impossible today.

I didn't know that about Jeumont. That explains why the classic two car Belgian units don't run there any more. Years ago three or four a day ran across the border.

 

[MarcVD]

No no, you can still go to Jeumont with a 3 kV unit, but there are no more tracks that can be commuted between 3 kV= and 25 kV~ there. Half of the station is under 3 kV and the other half under 25. So an exchange of loco became not totally impossible, but at least much more difficult, a bit like how it is at Brennero, the border between Italy and Austria.

 

[dutchflyer]

There is also a TEC (wallon buses) line Mons (Bergen in vlaams/dutch) to Maubeuge, which is the centre of the local french ´urban´ network. Runs 4 times daily, through fare is the stdd. TEC (I think 3,50 cash, much less on multiride) but whithin FR the local fares apply.
In days of yore it was pretty common for ´foreign´ trans/crews to sit idle for a few hrs. in adjacent foreign territory. In this case there will be no language problem and if scheduling is done smartly, part of the 2+ hrs could be break anyway. In the past this was often quite attractive to go shopping and take profit of locally lower prices. I read somewhere that at least SNCF/fr crews even get paid all this time, so they must go beelining for it, but unsure of how the NMBS/be applies this.
Most of these local lines short cross border are in some way subsidised/promoted by some EU-funds. Perhaps if only England finally in the end breaks away from the EU and Scotland becomes independent and stays in, British crews can enjoy the same privileges in Berwick or even Edinburgh..........

 

[Bikeman78]

No no, you can still go to Jeumont with a 3 kV unit, but there are no more tracks that can be commuted between 3 kV= and 25 kV~ there. Half of the station is under 3 kV and the other half under 25. So an exchange of loco became not totally impossible, but at least much more difficult, a bit like how it is at Brennero, the border between Italy and Austria.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Taunton]

No no, you can still go to Jeumont with a 3 kV unit, but there are no more tracks that can be commuted between 3 kV= and 25 kV~ there. Half of the station is under 3 kV and the other half under 25. So an exchange of loco became not totally impossible, but at least much more difficult, a bit like how it is at Brennero, the border between Italy and Austria.

The "Ventimiglia approach" takes advantage of much SNCF stock being dual voltage 1.5kV DC/25kV AC. The station area is wired throughout at 1.5kV DC. French 25kV trains change voltage about a mile out. Italian 3kV DC trains likewise pass through a changeover point outside, and run quite straightforwardly on half voltage in the station area.