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SNCF Béziers to Neussargues

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peteb

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Does anyone know what's happening with this route for the summer? SNCF and Bahn both indicating bus only north of Millau to Neussargues. But no TER or IC timetables yet published and no advance notice of closure or major engineering works on the websites.
Looks like Nîmes to Clermont Ferrand is reopening though after major engineering closure.
 
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Polarbear

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It's a line that's on my bucket list & one that's been under threat for a few years - mainly due to the condition of infrastructure.

Off the top of my head, I think agreement was reached a year or so ago to invest some money rather than close the line. The buses may be a 1st stage in that project (he says hopefully).
 

peteb

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I've just been searching the Internet, it may be to do with the closure (until 18 October) of the Neussargues to Aurillac line due to major works. Buses (very few) to link Aurillac and Arvant. Seems as though this work will affect the IC train Béziers to Clermont: through passengers diverted via Nîmes and Arvant on the reopened Cevenol line. Still a couple of trains a day to Marvejols via Mende from Nîmes but nothing running north of Millau to Le Monastier. Millau now reduced to 2 return trips daily from Béziers.
 

30907

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Bahn.com shows Ligne des Causses trains operating until 8 July and from 30 Aug, with the IC running north of Neussargues during the closure period. It doesnt have any replacement buses (unlike round Aurillac) so whether Sncf havent uploaded them or whether they arent running at all....
 

nw1

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Slightly OT but I remember Neussargues from my first non-UK train travel in the summer of 1983. We got a local DMU from Aurillac (which stopped at loads of tiny village stations sadly now closed - France appears to have had its Beeching perhaps 20 or 30 years after ours) to there. I remember seeing the electrified line coming up from the south and thinking it was a major trunk inter-city route (maybe Montpellier-Clermont-Ferrand-Paris?) but then being surprised that just about nothing was using it and wondering what the point of the electrification was!
 

Bletchleyite

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Bahn.com shows Ligne des Causses trains operating until 8 July and from 30 Aug, with the IC running north of Neussargues during the closure period. It doesnt have any replacement buses (unlike round Aurillac) so whether Sncf havent uploaded them or whether they arent running at all....

I do quite fancy doing this line, though I'm put off by the rolling stock being the equivalent of a Class 153. I did to be fair do the Heart of Wales the other week, but my ears were rattling by the end.
 
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peteb

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I did Aurillac around 1985 from Lyon via Le Puy and Arvant, still just about do-able. How I wish I'd had the time to do the Neussargues-Aurillac-Bort les Orgues-Neussargues triangle: this had closed by the time of my next visit in 1998 although did travel on the preserved bit on a picasso dmu! I did manage Le Mont Dore (now shut), but still to do Viaduc de Garabit, my trip earlier this month thwarted by train failure, see other thread.
 

peteb

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There appear to be bargain fares on Oui SNCF site: €1 (yes, one euro) advance ticket Béziers to Millau at crack of dawn, with bus €1 forward to Marvejols. This may connect with the train back to Nîmes via Mende: strangely this service is augmented during closure of ligne des Causes but then reduces to one daily thereafter! Still, a sort of round trip Beziers-Millau-Marvejols-Mende-La Bastide-Nimes-Beziers is feasible in daylight with 80% train, 20% bus.
 

peteb

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Just to note the electric emu Béziers to Neussargues (once daily IC) is worth taking. If the crew leave the door open you can stand in the vestibule and see the line ahead. Also the ex first class is comfy with adjusting seats and tables, board early to secure a seat there. Sadly external graffiti is quite common on most SNCF DMU/EMU stock stabled in the open at Béziers so make sure you pick a window that's not been obscured by spray paint!!
 

dutchflyer

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Both these low fares and the local timetable are not set perse by SNCF, but by the controlling region. They aim in the longer term to integrate with the (quite sparse also) local longer-distance countrybus network.
 

nw1

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I did Aurillac around 1985 from Lyon via Le Puy and Arvant, still just about do-able. How I wish I'd had the time to do the Neussargues-Aurillac-Bort les Orgues-Neussargues triangle: this had closed by the time of my next visit in 1998 although did travel on the preserved bit on a picasso dmu! I did manage Le Mont Dore (now shut), but still to do Viaduc de Garabit, my trip earlier this month thwarted by train failure, see other thread.

(Sorry this is a bit late)

So Aurillac-Bort les Orgues was open in 1983 by the looks of things.. interesting!

I'm sure I only recall Aurillac having three lines at this time: to Clermont-Ferrand, to Toulouse and to Brive. How frequent was the Aurillac-Bort-les-Orgues service? Also Bort-les-Orgues to Neussargues? Did the Aurillac-Bort extend to Paris? (e.g. as a once-a-day trip) or was it a local DMU? From Wikipedia, it looks like this line used to be a through line towards Paris at one time.

Looking at the map it really does look like a delightfully rural and isolated circuit, going through very sparsely populated countryside and some big loops on the Bort-Neussargues section, presumably to get round hills. Bort-les-Orgues looks like an interesting natural break if doing the circuit in a day: a rural town with an impressive rock outcrop (the Orgues or organ-pipes of the place-name). These lines look like the sort of route that in the UK would be gone by 1963, never mind 1983 - but sadly now gone by the looks of things.
 

peteb

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Aurillac to Bort services ceased 2nd July 1994 and the line from Miecaze Junction to Bort was then o. o. u. Bort to Neussargues was closed to passengers 26 May 1990 but special services and freight ran to the end of 1991. This partly reopened in July 1997 between Lugarde and Riom by l'association de Haute-Auvergne, and South of Lugarde a velo-rail operated. For chapter and verse on Auvergne railways try to get hold of Sur les rails D'Auvergne, which has fantastic pictures from 1990s of the last days of several branch lines. ISBN 2-908816-57-1.
 

peteb

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I'll see if I can find my old timetables in the loft but from memory in the 1980s the service was not bad, 3 or 4 trains a day doing the circuit. Diesel railcars. Plenty of freight which lasted well into the 1990s. Some stations on the Aurillac to Bort line appeared to have been only recently refurbished with new signage and sodium lights still evident in 1997, 3 years after closure. Some magnificent steel viaducts too, I wonder if they're still in situ?
 

Calthrop

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Slightly OT but I remember Neussargues from my first non-UK train travel in the summer of 1983. We got a local DMU from Aurillac (which stopped at loads of tiny village stations sadly now closed - France appears to have had its Beeching perhaps 20 or 30 years after ours) to there.

Many would say that France's "Beeching" equivalent actually took place a generation before ours: in 1938, when nationalisaton (merging of the several big quasi-private companies, as the SNCF) was accompanied by what was called transport "co-ordination"; whose chief component was closure to passengers of a huge number, country-wide, of branch and secondary / tertiary main lines, of the new SNCF (in the majority of cases, these lines were retained for freight), in favour of bus services. Rail closures (lines, or minor stations) since then, went on "few and slowly" for some decades after; then at a greater pace in the late 20th / early 21st century -- but generally reckoned "piecemeal", rather than as one holocaustic plan.

I remember seeing the electrified line coming up from the south and thinking it was a major trunk inter-city route (maybe Montpellier-Clermont-Ferrand-Paris?) but then being surprised that just about nothing was using it and wondering what the point of the electrification was!

This seemingly "isolated-ish" electrification, has a historical basis. The Neussargues -- Beziers line started life as part of the route between Paris and the Mediterranean, of the partnership between the Paris -- Orleans, and Midi, Railways: rivals for "capital-to-Med." traffic, with the Paris -- Lyons -- Mediterranee Railway's routes further to the east. North and east / west of Neussargues was PO trackage; south thereof to Beziers, was Midi. The Midi railway was from early-ish in the 20th century, an enthusiastic pioneer in electrifying many of its lines -- with its running through much mountainous country, ideal for hydro-electric schemes. The PO, further north, was less interested in electrification. Thus the Midi electrified up to Beziers, I think circa 1930: the part of the north -- south main line, north of Neussargues, remained steam through the 1934 merger betwen PO and Midi; and nationalisation in 1938.

The line through Bort-les-Orgues, as mentioned below: its decline can be reckoned to have begun in the early 1950s. Till then, it was part of the above-described PO / Midi north -- south route; which southward from Montlucon (that town still having a passenger service from the north AFAIK) ran to the junction of Eygurande-Merlines, thence through Bort-les-Orgues south-east to Neussargues. In the early '50s, a massive hydro-electric project involved the flooding of a long stretch of the section between Eygurande-Merlines and Bort-les-Orgues. This caused abandonment of the whole Eygurande-Merlines -- Bort section, and the end of any main-line role via Bort: from then till late-20th-century closures, it was a matter just of two branch lines, Bort -- Neussargues, and Bort -- Miecaze junction -- [Aurillac].

Ironically, after closure of Eygurande-Merlines -- Bort: north-south long-distance passenger hereabouts was transferred to the erstwhile rival PLM route, as far as Arvant south of Clermont-Ferrand, where the ex-PO east-west line diverges westward, first significant point reached being Neussargues.

So Aurillac-Bort les Orgues was open in 1983 by the looks of things.. interesting!

I'm sure I only recall Aurillac having three lines at this time: to Clermont-Ferrand, to Toulouse and to Brive. How frequent was the Aurillac-Bort-les-Orgues service?

Actual point of divergence of the line traversed by Aurillac -- Bort workings, was Miecaze (mentioned by me above -- also mentioned by peteb), a good many kilometres out westwards along the line to Brive. Maybe this fact tended to make the existence of the Aurillac -- Bort service, less than obvious?

Also Bort-les-Orgues to Neussargues? Did the Aurillac -- Bort extend to Paris? (e.g. as a once-a-day trip) or was it a local DMU? From Wikipedia, it looks like this line used to be a through line towards Paris at one time.

(My bolding above) -- see my text "above-again", re happenings around Bort-les-Orgues.

Looking at the map it really does look like a delightfully rural and isolated circuit, going through very sparsely populated countryside and some big loops on the Bort-Neussargues section, presumably to get round hills. Bort-les-Orgues looks like an interesting natural break if doing the circuit in a day: a rural town with an impressive rock outcrop (the Orgues or organ-pipes of the place-name). These lines look like the sort of route that in the UK would be gone by 1963, never mind 1983 - but sadly now gone by the looks of things.
 

Gordon

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The co-ordination was indeed France's 'Beeching'. The closures since then were a not quite as 'piecemeal' as suggested. There were several distinct 'waves' partly linked to the political situation (eg left wing governments tended to keep lines, right wing governments tended to close them), including one big wave of closures around 1969 and another around 1980.

Another quirk is that any rural branch line which served the home region of a French President tended to close after the President left office or passed away.

btw, very few of the trains in the area were 'DMU' as SNCF railcars such as Picasso, X2400 and X2800 and the later X2100 and X2200 used in mountains areas are single power units hauling trailers - not the same as DMU in the UK sense of the word.
 
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