SNCF Loco hauled

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by Please Explain, 6 Nov 2016.

  1. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Hi folks,


    I've just got my second set of FIP coupons for SNCF for this year and have some A/L coming up and fancy riding some français proper trains while their still there.

    So could anyone with knowledge of the current state of play in France point me in the right direction of where the real trains are still to be found?, (preferably ones that are in immediate threat from units).
    I am already aware of the hauled IC turns from Nord to/from the channel ports -(the Boulogne diesel is a must for me to do during my outward London-Paris, the traditional route through Dover/Calais).
    I'm also aware of the diesel hauled corail IC's on the Paris Est to Belfort's -(enjoyed a run on that behind a BB67000 -I think?! in an old school corail compartment when I was over for euros in the summer), I know there's various other hauled IC, TER and Transilien turns out of the other Parisian termini.
    About the Transilien in particular, are there any BB17000/RIB/RIO sets still running? If so, what lines and time of day am I likely to find them? Any info on RIB/RIO sets across France would be greatly appreciated as I'd imagine that they wont be around for much longer and would really like to take a ride on some of these trains.
    I also heard Clermont-Ferrande is/was supposed to be a loco hauled hotspot, is this still the case??
    Are there still any old DMU's running anywhere in France?
    I've heard that SNCF run an "eco train", (sleeper stock running during the day) on an out and back diagram from Austerlitz to Toulouse and also I think, Est to Strasbourg? Anyone know more??

    If I've missed any "must do's" or "soon to be unitised" jobs with old stock, please do let us know!
    I also enjoy some sybbic haulage and really anything with corails and "nez casssés"!


    All info/gen/suggestions very much welcomed,
    Thanks a lot! / Merci beaucoup!!
     
    Last edited: 6 Nov 2016
  2. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    Link to my thread back in Summer 2013: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87087

    CC 72100 on the main line out of Paris Est - due for replacement 2017

    BB 67400 on RIO/RIB 16:05/17:05 Transilien 'P' departures Mon - Fri locals(*) to La Ferté-Milon - now that Gretz-Armanvilliers to Provins electrification has been agreed, that line will see electric units freeing up the bi-modes to work on what will be the last suburban non-electrified line (Meaux - La FM) in Ile-de-France.


    Line K BB 17000 operations ended a couple of months back, line J last year (?)


    *La Ferté-Milon isn't quite as local as would first seem, being out of Paris region!
     
  3. class387

    class387 Member

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    I'm pretty sure there is still BB17000+RIB on Pontoise to Creil runs (Transilien H).
     
  4. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Even the 27300s off St Lazare and Montparnasse are to be displaced within a few years from the latest round of unit orders... :cry:
     
  5. Ianigsy

    Ianigsy Member

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    When I was leaving Lyon Part-Dieu last summer bound for Chambery (EMU, although we did pass some loco-hauled sets), I was surprised to see the arrival of a TER from Paris Bercy via Dijon.
     
  6. AlexNL

    AlexNL Member

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    When I was in Languedoc-Rousillion last year (Toulouse, Perpignan, that area) I saw some loco-hauled stock being used on TER services. Going by what I can find on the internet, these Corail coaches should still be in use on the Avignon-Centre - Portbou relation, hauled by a BB 7200.

    There is a night train between Paris Austerlitz and Portbou, hauled by a Sybic, but this service will be axed at the start of the new timetable.
     
  7. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I think nowadays it is best to think of anything loco hauled in France as threatened, except perhaps Paris - Cherbourg

    A BB67000 (all withdrawn by 2004 and from passenger use much earlier) would have been unlikely... A BB67400 is possible but very unusual but it was the Euros so could have been a specially drafted in example. All Belfort ICs normally CC72100 class (big noisy 6 axle diesel not really confusable with any other SNCF diesels)

    The oldest DMUs running in France are the X4900 three car EAT units from Dieppe (easily accessed from Newhaven by walk on fare ferry). These are now doubly rare as they were unusual in the first place (!), being a three car variant of SNCFs huge fleet of 'EAD' or 'Caravelle' 2-car DMUs The 'Caravelle' fleet was SNCF's only true DMU fleet, other SNCF diesel railcars are individual single powered units hauling non permanently coupled trailers or running singly.

    The other remaining diesel railcars are the 1980s X2100/X2200 now confined to Brittany.



    You can still travel loco hauled all the way from Paris Bercy (or even Gare de Lyon if you use the Laroche train and change) to Marseille. Paris - Lyon corails via the old Ligne Imperiale were reintroduced a few years ago after some years of the TGV being the only long distance option. Well worth the trip to witness what the old PLM route was like pre-TGV (four-track sections, old fashioned heavyweight 1500v DC overhead etc)

    Also still loco hauled are various TER Bourgogne trains Dijon - Lyon and Dijon - Belfort, plus Lyon - Marseille, Lyon - Geneve, Lyon - Grenoble

    Paris Austerlitz is a good bet. Go there and ride south on anything you fancy!

    Loco hauled to Orleans/Limoges/Bourges etc, plus the Toulouse Eco already mentioned by the OP



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    Last edited: 7 Nov 2016
  8. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Thanks for all the replies guys, lots and lots to choose from then! :D

    @Gordon,

    Yes, of course I meant a CC 72100 on the Belfort - Paris Est IC. I'm very new to Franco bashing and still getting to know what's what! Those locos certainly are a delight to are to travel behind!!

    I came back from St Lazare on a broken nose corail hauled set up to Rouen to change for Dieppe for the boat to Newhaven on the way back in the summer for a change of scenery as I usually use P&O Dover/Calais with my PRIV, -(takes a lot longer this wah but so much quieter and relaxing with DFDS/Transmanche Ferries the Côte de Albâtre, they even had live coverage of the euros on in the bar that night too!).
    The last leg up to Dieppe was sadly a nasty bit of plastic that time, so have the X4900 units you mentioned been withdrawn now or do they only come out to play at certain times??

    Oh yes, a ride on one of the Bercy to Lyon hauled turns is definitely a must do for me! Will stock up on munchies n a nice bottle of vin and find a compo!

    About the TER's from Lyon, are all the Lyon-Geneve runs loco/corails? I was last out in Grenoble in 2013, visiting a friend who was at uni out there and took the TER from Geneve to Grenoble and from Grenoble to Lyon. Both were the same variety of plastic unit that I'm now used to in NPdC. So are some of these trains also worked by loco and stock?

    And the Intercitiés 100% éco, do you happen to know these trains are réservation obligatoire, a la TGV et TEOZ?? If so, anyone able to advise the best way to bash them with FIP coupons? I believe there is also an out and back diagram from Paris Est to Strasbourg with the couchettes in the daytime?

    @AlexNL, (are you from the Netherlands as well?!)

    I did the Luxembourg - Cerebere ICN in the summer and seen the loco hauled TER service described down there. Does this still run? I know the Luxembourg train has been canned now, along with most of the ICN's. Is the Portbou still running then? I know at one time there was an Austerlitz -Cerbere/Porrbou TEOZ/IC daytime train, I imagine this is now long gone?

    Bedankt!

    @Peter Mugridge,

    Thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to get some of those in then.

    @class387,

    Excellent, I've been wanting to get some haulage on these elderly locos for ages, I believe the French refer to them as "dancers" as the locos are know to shake all over the place! Would you happen to know of any other RIB/RIO worked trains elsewhere in France -(preferably unrefurbished examples with opening windows?!).

    @CC 72100,

    Great info! I read your 2013 thread, I'm guessing much of the workings described there are now units though?
    Pity about the BB 17000s on Line K, but as class387 says, hopefully still running from Pontoise to Creil.
    I'll definitely go and do the diesel hauled RIB's out of Est on line P, those certainly do sound fun! Do those sets have opening windows??

    Massive thanks for all the gen/info so far fellas, it's very much appreciated!
    :)
     
  9. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    Yes for opening windows, there's 3 opening windows per coach on each side if I remember correctly. Expect glares for opening them though, although at least 75% get off at Meaux and so (especially in the front coach behind the loco at the country end) it's empty for Meaux - La Ferté-Milon.


    To go back to 87015's post on my 2013 thread with some updates:

    7200s - TERs from Montparnasse (peak only) to Chartres/Le Mans, from Austerlitz on the stopping TERs to Orleans (limited 7 day service) and from Gare de Lyon on the two hourly TERs to Laroche M (recommended, load 10 Corail shove sets) All booked 7200 but semi-regular 22200 or even 26000 substitution. Most diagrams on ERG.
    Montparnasse - don't know, didn't cover during my time there 13/14. From Gare de Lyon - yes, :49 departure, every 2 hours as per 2013.

    7600s - Montparnasse to Rambouillet services all day
    Units order announced a couple of months back to replace the old VB2N/V02N coaching stock on the 'N' and 'J'. As for how long for delivery.. no idea but I'd imagine you'd be safe in the next 12 months.

    8500s - TER services from Montparnasse to Chartres/Le Mans. Majority in peak hours but some off peak and weekend working also.
    Didn't observe but imagine no more?

    15000s - some services from St Lazare to Rouen/Caen stop at Mantes Le Jolie. More diagrams in peak but some daytime and weekend turns.
    Yes - as a general rule Le Havre/Caen/Cherbourg 'far Normandie' = hauled (15000 most commonly or 22200), stoppers to Rouen are mainly double deck units.

    17000s - work out of St Laxare all day, also Pontoise-Creil line. Peak work on Est - Meaux services also sporadic work out of Nord mainly on Crepy services again mainly in the peaks as lots of turns have been lost to the new pink and white units.
    No more out of St Lazare, workings out of Nord went a few months back, pink and white units had all but taken over out of Est when I left in April 2014 so likely all units on Est - Meaux now.


    27300s - countless services from Montparnasse and St Lazare all day
    Units order announced a couple of months back to replace the old VB2N/V02N coaching stock on the 'N' and 'J'. As for how long for delivery.. no idea but I'd imagine you'd be safe in the next 12 months.

    67400s - peak hour Transilien workings from Est to Le Ferte and limited daytime, peak and weekend TER services from Nord which are mainly Laon trains. There are diagrams for the TER turns ERG.
    Est - 1605/1705 M-F as per my earlier post. TER from Nord - unknown, somebody else will have a better update.

    Hope that helps!
     
  10. AlexNL

    AlexNL Member

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    Yes I am! :)

    The nightly service from Luxembourg has indeed been axed, but the service between Paris and Portbou should still be running until the end of the current timetable year. I can't find anything about a direct daytime IC train from Paris to Cerbère/Portbou, so I guess that one has been axed a while ago when the high speed line opened.

    Loco-hauled services in the south of France should still be there, but I'm not sure how long they will remain.

    A while ago the French régions have been reshuffled, Languedoc-Rousillion has been merged with Midi-Pyrenées to form a new region: Occitania. As a consequence of this merger the TER networks will be merged as well, which will probably make some rolling stock redundant. Furthermore, the French state recently ordered 15 new TGV sets from Alstom (in an effort to save the Belfort site) intended for Intercité usage in the south of France.
     
  11. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    About the only addition is the Cote d'Azur where the long distance TER workings are hauled (Corail with compartment doors removed on the one I used).
     
  12. Cowley

    Cowley Established Member

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    Having read this thread with interest and looked at some YouTube clips of 72100s (which sound nice by the way), I was wondering what the oldest diesels operating passenger services are still? Also guys what would be considered the loudest?
    I have done a few French railway journeys over the years but the most recent ones have been behind electric locos in Normandy I think behind 15000 class locos? Probably about ten years ago now actually.
     
  13. MarcVD

    MarcVD Member

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    We in Belgium still have 6 séries 55, they are CoCo's with GM engines, built in the 60ies. Not used in passenger service any more but only on work trains and rescue services. So you must be lucky to meet them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCB_Class_55 . They must be among the oldest locs in service today. Nice GM sound.

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  14. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    The X4900 may have now gone, although they are still shown as on the books, 2016 was cited as their last year.

    The Lyon - Geneve service has flitted around between unit and loco hauled over the years. The 'mega' era was 10 or so years ago when they were CC6500 hauled. Then they went mainly plastic, but for the last few years two or three a day have been 22200 push pull with the Chambery allocated 'MUX' 22200 locos.

    Most RIB/RIO have been withdrawn. Their descendants the RRR sets (the pukka TER equipment just a few years ago...) are also on the way out. AFAIK some sets still in use in Brittany, Burgundy, Alsace (mostly electric now that Strasbourg's 67400 have almost gone), Marseille (some 67400), Auvergne (67400).

    All RRRs have some opening windows. The classic place to try and sit is the 'thrash' or 'basher' compartment at the 'blunt' (next to the loco) end. The trouble is this zone is often scrappy as it is the 'cycle rack/crafty fag/ hide from the gripper/play loud music on your ghetto blaster' compartment. That said, I've had some great rides behind 67300/400 in said compartment and got some decent sound recordings and video.


    Until recently there were only three types of diesel loco operating passenger after the end of BB66400 on passenger some years ago. The 67300/400 (same engine, same body shape) and the 72000/72100 same body different engine). However a few 75300 now work passenger.

    The oldest diesels potentially used on passenger (still on the books but are they actually in use?) are 67305/330 dating from 1968.

    The surviving low numbered 67400s (ie any non-withdrawn number below 67451) were all built in 1970 so they are almost the oldest in use - so that includes locos used off Boulogne!

    The joke about the 72100s is that they are the 'environmentally friendly' re-engined (SEMT) locos - a task undertaken partly due to public pressure about the noise of the original 72000 (AGO) engines in the Paris Est area. The original 72000 were deemed too noisy and claggy - but the 72100s do a pretty decent job of being noisy and claggy too!

    The surviving un-re-engined 72s (72049 /074 and celebrity 72084) work every so often on the Troyes route are probably the loudest.


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    Last edited: 8 Nov 2016
  15. Cowley

    Cowley Established Member

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    Excellent information Gordon thank you
     
  16. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    @Gordon,

    Many thanks indeed for all the information, you certainly know your stuff.
    You wouldn't happen to know where I might did diagrams for the loco hauled TER jobs out of Lyon on the Geneve's and Grenoble's in particular?
    That's a shame about the RIB/RIO's, but hopefully still on the peak hour workings out of Est as previously mentioned. Can you confirm if their still to be had on Pontoise - Creile with the last of the BB 17000's??

    @MarcVD

    I didn't know you had any diesels left in België, you do have some nice electrics and some ancient units still running around though!
    I do very much miss le Vauban / Iris, (EC90/91/96/97). Such a shame these direct connections to Strasbourg and Bâle were deleted back in April.. C'est la vie...
    Did the 55's stop running passenger trains a long time ago?

    Bedankt / merci / danke! :)

    @AlexNL,

    Geode middag! :)

    Ikt hou van Nederland je treinen en je muziek! Ik probeer te leren Nederlands en ik wil om te luisteren naar puur NL!
    -(I still could not get Heer Groningen to confirm or deny if he was also from your country but going by his YN, I'd say Ja!!) :D

    Its a damn shame that the majority of the Intercités de Nuit have been canned now. The Luxembourg-Cerbère was pretty well loaded when I traveled on it on a Friday night, Back in June. As was the Nice-Austerlitz, another loss to progress I guess... At least ÖBB have stepped in to save most of the CNL's though.

    Does anyone have any recent info on loco hauled stuff out of Clermont-Ferrand? I heard it used to be a hotbed for proper trains but I fear it may all be units now.

    And Intercités 100% eco to Toulouse and -(I think Strasbourg?), are they réservation oblagatoire and are they doable on FIP coupons?


    Sorry for all these questions! Thanks very much again guys!! :)

    Merci / dank u wel!
     
    Last edited: 8 Nov 2016
  17. MarcVD

    MarcVD Member

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    Not much ancien units still running in Belgium today I'm afraid, some EMUs from 1970-1980 and that's it. HLD 55 not used any more for passenger service but just for work trains. Idem for HLD 62.

    Last use for HLD 55 in passenger service was indeed long ago when they were used on Liege - Luxembourg before the line was electrified in the 90s.

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    Last edited: 8 Nov 2016
  18. class387

    class387 Member

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    I don't know much about the rest of France I'm afraid. It's a shame you missed the BB17000+RIB on Crepy-en-Valois runs. It was great fun when I was there in April.

    Here's a link to my thread if it helps:
    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=128049
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I think there are still some AM66s running around. This website should help:http://www.beluxtrains.net/indexen.php?page=searchbelrollingstock
     
  19. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Clermont is still a relative hotbed for proper trains, purely because all the expresses on the legendary 'Bourbonnais' route Paris - Clermont are still loco hauled, and there has been a pool of 67400 (shedded at Nevers) still allocated to TER Auvergne local services fanning out from Clermont. In the summer the famous Cevenol express reverted for a time to loco hauled - I missed that but then I spent the last 20 or so years catching all the trad stuff all over France before it got down to the low ebb it is today, so I've been favouring Switzerland in recent years as the same pattern of reduction in traditional stock is happening there).

    Last I heard the 67400 TERs are still running out of Clermont but it's hit and miss. Trains can be cancelled (local strike or failed loco) but its probably a case of going to the area and seeing what's running.

    Strasbourg 67400 operated trains are down to 3 or 4 a day on two routes AFAIK - again I made sure I did the area a few times 3-4 years ago when there were still 10 or 15 trains a day on about 5 routes.


    Not to be forgotten is the Bordeaux - Nantes route for 67400-hauled IC trains, and the Paris - Montlucon IC which are 67300 or 67400 hauled between Bourges and Montlucon.



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    Last edited: 9 Nov 2016
  20. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    While we are on the subject... one 67400 working off Paris Est only carries two numbers on the bodyside, a 5 and a 7 I think... does anyone know which one it is? It was like that in July 2015 and it was still like that this week...
     

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