SNCF Loco hauled

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by Please Explain, 6 Nov 2016.

  1. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    Are these likely to remain 67300/67400-hauled in 2017?

    Also while I'm at it, are the Marseille - Miramas peak hour trains still hauled, and likely to remain so in 2017?

    Thanks in anticipation.
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2016
  2. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Anecdotal evidence: I did the trip mid-afternoon midweek in August and was unlucky both ways but there were a couple of sets stabled outside Marseille.
    Hope someone can provide better info than that!
     
  3. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Bourges ICs will remain hauled if the trains themselves stay running as through loco hauled services (bahn.de is showing them running into 2017) as there it little else to power them unless SNCF suddenly drafted in some of the 75300s.

    Infra allocated 67422 was booked for the Bourges run the other day.

    Last I heard there were still a few Marseile - Miramas workings each day

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    Last edited: 16 Nov 2016
  4. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Many thanks again for all of the excellent information posted guys.

    @class387,

    Yes, those were the old Belgian EMU's I was referring to that I very much enjoyed riding when I was in Brussel during the summer. I will have to get myself back over there again soon for some more of them before they go as I guess the old stuff in Belgium won't be around forever either, plus before this crazy legislation to effectively end free movement within the BeNeLux comes in to play. What a backward step that will be if it actually goes ahead, it will be the death knell of Schengen...
    I am aware of the BeLux Trains website you mentioned, what a great resource that is. It only failed me once with train compositions when I was waiting for the last IC from Luxembourg to Brussel that now runs in the former path of le EC 96, Iris on a Sunday night back in July. They had it down as still being hauled with an interesting consist of double decks and a couple of voiture I6/I10's, but I got a pair of "rubber rings" aka AM96's..! :|

    Back to France though, I'm heading out on dimanche, Londres-Paris -(recreating the classic train-ferry-train experience through Dover/Calais for TER to Boulogne for some BB 67400 action down to Amiens, where a broken nosed lecky should take over on the IC into Nord. :D -(if only I could still still enjoy it all the way from le gare maritime.. C'est la vie... :cry: )
    Only about 10 hours end-to-end journey time now following the traditional route twenty odd years on..! How long did it take back in those pre channel tunnel days?

    I've been having no success in finding useful information on Intercitiés 100% eco on the net. As far as I know there are one of these trains in each direction from Austerlitz to Toulouse with couchettes Friday-Monday and also a return trip from Est to Strasbourg via the classic line Friday-Sunday.
    It would seem that these can only be booked through the French voyages SNCF website and when you enter the data into the booking page it automatically redirects you to the UK voyages SNCF sites homepage where I cannot find any information on the said trains at all! It is very frustrating!! I will try it again when I get to France from a French IP and hopefully that will do the trick, but if that's what it takes then that is crazy as they are effectively banning foreigners from booking these trains.. Another oddity I've found is that they do not show up on the SNCF direct and EU Rail railplanner apps. So are the eco trains actually unadvertised "special" réservation obligatoire services that are only bookable through the French voyages SNCF website from a French IP address?! If that is the case then I'd imagine they are out of bounds on FIP facilities?
    If anyone has any experience in booking and information about these rather strange trains I'd be very grateful. -(Gordon, from your previous posts you sound like your an SNCF guru! :lol: )
    I've always thought it would be quite an interesting experience to ride in couchettes on a daytime service!

    Thanks so much again chaps, can't wait to get out there for some real trains, gets so boring here with all these plastic units!


    Merci beaucoup! :)
     
    Last edited: 20 Nov 2016
  5. NicholasNCE

    NicholasNCE Member

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    A great expedition awaiting you there

    Intercité 100% éco are also bookable on trainline.eu (formerly capitainetrain.com), but I suspect there are indeed no FIP fares available, you certainly can't get InterRail reservations for them.
    They are a completely commercial undertaking by SNCF, a bit like Ouigo and as such don't accept railcards or appear in standard timetables (ie. HAFAS).
    SNCF making the best of its monopoly if you ask me, with rolling stock subsidised by the state...
     
  6. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    7 hours in 1975 via both routes (Folkestone - Boulogne and Dover - Calais).
    Folkestone Boulogne was the most efficient - Folkestone harbour closer to London and right next to ferry berth - and Boulogne Maritime closer to Paris

    I detest the way web sites particularly Voyages SNCF can be deliberately set up to transfer you away from the version you want without it being under your control - the worst aspect of modern technology.

    However, here is the solution:

    first go here (where you will note that it gives the details of all the ECO services - namely Toulouse, Bordeaux, Nantes and Strasbourg):

    http://www.voyages-sncf.com/intercites/offres/intercites-eco

    on this page carefully select the French flag icon upper right hand side of the page. Selecting this flag appears to force the web to think you are in France not UK

    Then select as normal from the French site. It gives all trains including ECO. I got a 40 euro fare for the 10.29 tomorrow (Saturday 19/11)


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    Last edited: 19 Nov 2016
  7. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Yes, a great expedition indeed!
    It started with fun and games this morning with the 08:40 ex CHX being caped and the 12:05 sailing too due to the weather down here in Kent!! Wanting to keep to the "classic lines", I picked up the 10:50, starting from LBG -(10:40 ex Charing X), the sea certainly looked very choppy as the train ran along the coast by the western docks on the approach to DVP!
    Now sitting on the port bus on berth 9 at the eastern docks waiting to board the Burgundy on the 14:45 to Calais.. :roll:

    Thank you both very much for your fast replies.

    I found trainline.eu very easy to use and found the eco's no problem on there and even managed to get myself a first class prem on the eco train from Strasbourg back to Est for next Saturday at €22! So thanks a lot for that top tip NicholasNCE, I would never have thought of that otherwise.
    Looking forward to some sybic haulage :) .

    Yes, Gordon, voyages SNCF can be an absolute nightmare to use for many things.. Mark Smith also mentions this on his excellent seat 61 website too.
    Many thanks for the explaining the workaround though.

    Fingers crossed I make the TER connection to Boulogne at 18:27 for IC 2036 down to Nord... :|
     
    Last edited: 20 Nov 2016
  8. NicholasNCE

    NicholasNCE Member

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    Hope all has gone well up to now!

    I just wanted to add that the Strasbourg - Paris Est Intercité 100% éco doesn't use couchette stock but rather the spare Line 4 (Paris - Troyes - Belfort) daytime Corail set... It usually is BB26000 hauled though, with very occasional BB15000 substitutions I believe.
    Only the Toulouse service makes use of sleeper stock AFAIK.
     
  9. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Just wanted to post a big thank you to all of you for responding with excellent Gen and information.

    I had a great trip!
    Didn't get in everything I wanted to cover sadly due to a number of factors but c'est la vie!

    As mentioned above London-Paris the traditional way, fell apart very quickly from the off due to the weather! Made it to Calais Ville just in time to see the TER to Boulogne leave!! Then it was a van move to Calais Frethun TGV to wait around in the rain for ages before taking a delayed and packed out TGV to Paris -(that was the journey from hell!), but guess you can't complain when its gratuit! :)

    I done the BB 67400 and RIB/RIO run out of Est to La Ferté-Milon. That was pretty awesome! Took your advice Gordon and grabbed a seat behind the loco at the blunt end!
    I also enjoyed a quick ride on a Z5300 petit gris from Melun too, hope to get back for some more of those as I'd guess they won't have long left too?

    I have to say, I found the refurbished TEOZ cars on the IC to/from Clermont-Ferrand some of the most comfortable stock I've ever had the pleasure of traveling on. I was surprised though to find them in the dull standard gray Corail livery. Are there none of these cars left in the colorful TEOZ livery now the brand has been dropped?
    I'm pleased to report that Clermont itself is still a loco bashers delight! There was plenty of BB 67400 / RRR action on local jobs to be had on both days I was there! :D

    The Corail TER from Bercy to Lyon was also a great ride and insight into the pre TGV era. Showed up early at Bercy with my picnic and grabbed a compo for the ride, wonderful!

    Had a day in Lyon to take in the sights and sounds of the city (last time I was here it was a football trip in the summer for the euros when the city was full of Romanians and Albanians!), before taking a broken nose and another set of corails on a TER to Belfort for a unit to Mulhouse and then a TGV duplex up to Strasbourg for the Christmas markets.
    The Strasbourg Eco was also great fun with the sybic. Although I had an FC ticket, the single first class car was a little crowded for my liking and the friendly Chef du train said I could sit anywhere so I got a 2ne classe compo in the front car behind the loco all to my self the whole way back to Paris! Result!! :D

    Next day, to make up for the loss of the Boulogne diesel on the way out from London I managed to get in a run up to Abbeville and back with an original blue liveried BB 67400 on the way out and "en Voyage" liveried example on the return before a TGV duplex from Est back to Strasbourg for one more Sybic on a TER200 down to Bâle on the route of le Vauban / Iris.

    Then it was an ICE / IC from die Badischer Bahnhof for a flying visit to München for a break from trains to party at the Münchner Freiheit!
    Then, I had one last ride on the CNL Pollox up to Amsterdam for a shower and Thalys to meet up with some friends in Brussel and in Brugge before "chav'n it up" in STD premier on a TMST back to London a couple of days later! :D

    So that was my mini trip report! Maybe ill do a proper one and upload the pics when I get a chance / can be bothered!

    Thanks so much / merci beaucoup / dank u wel to all the guys and girls who answered my many many questions up thread! Would not have been half as much fun had I not joined RailUK! :lol:
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2017
  10. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    They have about a year left.

    There's three diagrams off peak, which can be had relatively easily. They form an hourly from Melun to Montereau and the way the timetable works means all three can be had along with two of the loco hauled TER diagrams that run in the same paths as the regular fast units on the Melun run from Gare de Lyon.

    If you start on a loco hauled xx.49 ( one every two hours; 12.49 is a good one as you'd be traveling at a fairly quiet time ) off Gare de Lyon to Melun, then you can do the following:

    Go Melun – Champagne – Hericy – Montereau. Could push it one stop further for both bits of the middle sector but then it starts getting a bit tight, especially if you try to go one beyond Hericy, which is a +18 if both are on time. ( One beyond Champagne is much easier but offers less shelter if the weather is poor! ).

    This then puts you at Montereau in time to return to Gare de Lyon behind a different loco haulage diagram... :D Alternatively detrain at Melun and await the additional off peak diagrams.

    A five zone ticket will cover all this.
     
  11. anme

    anme Established Member

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    To you and others who have experienced similar problems - can I suggest that you write to one of your MEPs with these examples? Ending unjustified geo-blocking (i.e. discrimination against cross border customers within the EU) is an aim of the European Commission's Digital Single Market strategy. See: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/geo-blocking-digital-single-market

    You can find the names of your MEPs and their contact details, including e-mail addresses, here: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/map.html (and a lot of other information about them and what they individually do - or not - on your behalf!).

    The UK has sadly chosen to exclude itself from these institutions in the future, but you can still influence progress for now, and you may be helping hundreds of millions of your fellow Europeans.
     
  12. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Technical note: you should not truly refer to the remaining '67' diesels as '67000'.

    In SNCF parlance, 67000, 67200, 67300 and 67400 are different classes. What you saw (in all cases I assume) were class 67400. The last unrebuilt original BB67000 class (introduced 1963) were withdrawn from freight service in the south of France in 2004. Since then the operable locos have been either the 67200 class (rebuilt from 67000 for LGV rescue and freight work), 67300 class (original 1967 variant, used on pax and freight), and 67400 class (also used on pax and freight).

    The remaining '67' classes are descendants of the original BB67000 class first introduced in 1963. 67400 introduced 1969 were revised version of the same basic body shape with different bogies and other design differences (and ETH).

    Having said all the above this remains a complex area (typical SNCF in other words) as some SNCF loco classes with clear physical differences are not split into separate classes, but referred to as the same class (for example, the BB25500 class, which has/had short and long cab variants but all of which were usually referred to as a single class - BB25500)




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    Last edited: 20 Dec 2016
  13. nom de guerre

    nom de guerre Member

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    Alas the remaining diagrams ended at the recent timetable change :(
     
  14. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    But 67573 (I have the N gauge model of same by Minitrix!) worked vice a unit a couple of days ago, so as usual the end has not been the end.


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  15. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Bordeaux - Nantes / Ussel / Limoges just announced as another take over from SNCF by the region (Nouvelle Aquitaine). New trains planned by 2018 (as per press release)


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  16. nom de guerre

    nom de guerre Member

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    Yes, I saw that too ;)

    Will be interesting to see how often vices occur...
     
  17. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    Thanks for that, Gordon. So just to be sure, if I cover the Saturday IC from Bordeaux (0910-ish) to Ussel this year it should still be 67400-hauled?
     
    Last edited: 29 Dec 2016
  18. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Looks like it.

    The suggestion is that corails will survive until the new stock arrives in 2018, however 'usual disclaimers apply' because this is French railways, and there is always a chance that some sort of cascade takes place of units made available elsewhere in France you never know...


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  19. MarcVD

    MarcVD Member

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    Just did Amiens-Etaples yesterday afternoon. BB67400+9 corail coaches. Traction exchange in Amiens. Photographies taken of the whole action. I will try to post them here once I'm back home.

    Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk
     
  20. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    Sounds fairly safe then. Intended visit is the end of April, so looks worth a go. Thanks again.
     
  21. Castle Cary

    Castle Cary Member

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    just catching up - belatedly - on this thread. Mention was made of Paris - Cherbourg which services sports a selection of power units. However, contracts have now been exchanged for the Region to acquire double deck units to replace the loco hauled stock, so time is running out.
     
  22. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I think, essentially, time is now running out on everything.

    There seem to be very few routes now where some sort of plan has not been made for new EMUs.

    All very boring...

    The notion from now on would seem to be go to any route that you like the look of which still has traditional loco hauled trains and see them sooner rather than later.



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  23. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Sooner the better I'd say, and April seems 'sooner' enough



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  24. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    One last question from me if I may - are the 67400-hauled services out of Clermont-Ferrand still likely to be hauled in April 2017, and are they peak hours only Mon to Fri?

    OK, it was two questions....... :)
     
  25. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I would say yes and yes.

    Clermont has been cited as the possible last bastion of commuter 67400s, partly because Nevers depot has always been a depot where traction goes to eek out its last years (eg with 141R steam in the early 1970s and the X3800 Picasso in the late 1980s)

    Weekdays away from holiday periods has always been the best bet for commuter workings on SNCF. Going way back several decades, I used to ensure that I went on a weekday when you might get, say a BB13000 monocabine on green stock in Lorraine... The same train at weekends or around holiday times would either not run or be operated by a unit or at best a more modern loco.



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  26. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    Cheers Gordon.
     
  27. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    There were still plenty of hauled turns when I was there in November. I stayed in "Grand Hotel de Midi", right next to the station on Soviet Union Street! V nice and v reasonable too.
    I just showed up in the afternoon (as advised by our resident SNCF guru here - monsieur Gordon!), after I woke up after a night of sampling the local bevy and found a BB67400 and ab RRR waiting for me on a local job to Vic Le Comte about 13:00ish and bashed that up there and back before scoring another to Gannat and then doing another to Moulins Sur Allier and back to Clermont.
    Auvergne is a beautiful region. Was great to explore the villages between turns and get down with the locals at le tebac!

    I heartily recommend a visit to Clermont and the local environs and make the most of the haulage while you can as Gordon said.

    Be sure to check out le 1513 in le Centre Ville in Clermont.
    Le best crepes in France! :D

    Enjoy!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Merci beaucoup monsieur mugridge!

    I will be sure to give that plan a try towards the end of the month or February if possible!
    Only an ES away -(or maybe ill try and and to London - Paris the traditional route through Douvres - Calais again!), -no five zone ticket required for the ATOC / RDG / GTR slaves amongst us! FIP is a godsend!! :D
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Oh et bonne année

    et viva de France et l'Écosse de l'Édimbourg! :D
     
  28. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    Thanks again gents.

    Anywhere in particular you would recommend for that?
     
  29. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Le 1513 is a must not only for the crepes but they have some nice beers too, Wally Field Corner -Irish bar in le Centre Ville was also good fun :D
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Gordon, you wouldn't happen to know the latest on the new units for line 4 would you?

    As I didn't manage to get in a last ride behind a CC 72100 in November on the Belfort I am now looking to get back over some time next month.
    Do you think they'll still be running then or has the Régiolis onslaught already begun?!

    And while I'm at it, do we have a final date for BB 67400's on the Boulogne's??

    Thanks as always.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2017
  30. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Line 4 Two trains each way plastic from early February - snore

    Will be a sad day when it all goes plastic. In recent years there has been nothing quite like a full Paris - Belfort journey in acknowledged comfortable Corail stock behind a big diesel for 4+ hours.
    I will never forget my even better full length trips back from annual Easter Swiss skiing trips 6 - 7 years ago when on two occasions we travelled 5+ hours Mulhouse - Paris throughout

    Boulogne should last a while longer (maybe...), the difference being (I think) that the Paris - Amiens leg is tied in with other Paris Nord electric loco and hauled stock diagramming, so whilst there are 22200 + hauled Corail running to other places (eg Maubeuge) they may as well include the Amiens leg in that - even though thta means a loco change at Amiens. The odd thing is that Regiolis had already 'taken over' but were then taken off the route again.



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