Snow Service Changes 25/02/18 onwards.

[bramling]

If an employer demanded I turn up to work when weather conditions are bad enough that threat to my life is a real possiblility by treavelling on the roads, I would tell them that unless they can demonstrate human life is at stake by me not attending work, they can shove it. I won't work for a sociopath.

The attitude of the railway is generally along the lines of make every effort to get in, even if not the normal place of work, and with some flexibility expected from local management in granting annual leave days or unpaid leave.

There's no benefit to anyone in someone attempting heroics to get in, only to be involved in some kind of accident and then to be unavailable for a long period of time subsequently.

Naturally some people will take the proverbial, but to be fair most staff (*) rise to the occasion and will do their best to get in.

(* disclaimer - this applies to where I am, which may or may not be a representation of other locations!)

As a general point, I can't help but get the impression there's a lot less contingency planning nowadays. A decade ago I remember staff being brought in on overtime and positioned at strategic locations. This week I've seen nowt - just a memorable comment from a senior manager "don't use any points all day in case they get stuck", okay but sooner or later points will *need* to be used and if they've been left all day then there is far more likely to be an issue.

 

[M60lad]

Apparantly its already been reported that TPE will only be running their WCML services from Manchester Airport-Preston tomorrow with Virgin Trains not running North of Carlisle until after 12:00 tomorrow.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW still finalising a plan of cancellations tomorrow which is pretty extensive in addition to the earlier reduction in the Cardiff Valleys service by 50% to provide units to cover the grounding of the 175 fleet

 

[infobleep]

Apologies if this has already been asked but I've nt got time to read the 10 pages that have appear today.

Does anyone know why it's the metro routes that are having more cancellations on South Western Railway tomorrow. I'm not critising this being the case but wondering what the thinking is for this to be the case? They talk of snow but they seem to think it will be worse around Weymouth, where no service reductions are currently planned. Maybe that is due to the fact they run less services on that section of line.

We are expecting around one to two centimetres of snowfall on most of our network on Thursday. Some areas may see as much as seven or eight centimetres, particularly on routes through Bournemouth, Poole and Weymouth.

not that it will be perticuarly bad in London.

Salisbury services are only running to Basingstoke but Exeter are running through and that seems to be the only mainline services shortened or cancelled. They do state however additional changes during the peak so I don't know if mainline services are affected by that.

In comparison for the metro routes, Chessington; Dorking and Hampton Court services are all cancalled aall day long and Berrylands station is closed.

Are the bigger amount of changes on the metro routes due to the fact they want less trains in on the slow line in case the mainline services need to suddenly make use of the slow lines? Or the reverse, slow line trains need to suddenly run fast on the mainlines. Is Berrylands closed due it being more dangerous or simply due to the fact the Hampton Court services are not running? It is made of a more wooden construction but then isn't Hersham?

Base on the currently hourly forecast, which is due to change at any moment, this is the unpredictable nature of this weeks weather, it appears as if Friday will be worse. If the same prediction is in play tomorrow mid morning then I'd expect a similar timetable on Friday or even a more restrictive one. Like today they need time to plan the diagrams and so fourth.

 

[rg177]

Something up at Newcastle again. Platforms occupied by terminated trains, nothing much moving and loads of trains stacked up outside the station.

Icicles on the OHLE in a tunnel north of Newcastle- moving again now with 1E25 1452 Aberdeen-London chugging into Newcastle a mere 191L! (Heftiest delay i've seen so far is the 1307 off Edinburgh which managed to lose 296 minutes before being put out of its misery at Newcastle)

 

[infobleep]

Today they were advising people not to travel in Scotland. What about rail staff working to keep lines open? If they are already at work, do they attempt to get home afterwards or are they given somewhere to stay for the night?

I have a copy of the 1947 Southern Railway server weather regulations, with an update for 1948. It's most fascinating. It talks freely of hand signalmen. I know they can still be used but I doubt it would be too common these days during falling snow.

May I just thank all the people working outside in this weather and I spare a thought for some with no roof over their heads in this weather. I love the snow but I don't like to see people suffering from the cold.

 

[Llanigraham]

No safety-critical staff should even consider reporting for work after spending a night in "a shop doorway" or "a seat that will allow you to stretch out inside a station". Let the guy/woman go home, sleep in a bed and report for duty properly refreshed.

Quite, but it appears some don't understand that.
And as for NR taking train crews home, forget it! One there aren't that many 4x4's available, and if there were they would be used for moving signalling staff, etc on and off shift. If TOC's want to get transport them let them sort it out themselves.

A couple of years ago we had heavy snow overnight whilst I was on a night shift. At around 0515 my relief phoned in to report that he was now stuck getting out of his village and wouldn't be in for shift change at 0600. Control was phoned and I was requested to stay on for 1 hour whilst they tried to find someone/anyone who could get to the Box. They were unable to do so and then wanted to know if I could get home, which was a journey of 49 miles across Mid Wales, which might have been possible BUT would have taken too long and could have left me too tired to do the next night shift. Therefore I was told to book into a local hotel, send the bill to NR. Box closed at 0700! As far as I remember it didn't reopen until around 1000.

 

[aleggatta]

Been informed by Southern that Coastal routes tomorrow will be affected as the Class 313's don't like cold/ice/snow as much as the 377's! From what I saw this morning the simiar 455's were the ones performing admirably!

It's interesting to note Cletus' post on SE compared with Southern. They intend to run as near to normal as possible through equally rural stretches as SouthEastern!

313's have been suffering significant component failures, that there simply aren't the spares in the system to continually replace at the rate they are failing, so it would seem either pull the fleet for the short term or risk the same fleet causing knock on disruption through failures during the snow or unavailability after the snow.

 

[infobleep]

Some cancellations on my local Oxted line, but they are endeavoring to keep the service running & are doing a good job! Electrostars seem to be performing ok during this snowy/cold period along with the 700s.

The notorious East Croydon footbridge has been closed due to ice/snow & being too slippery.

Not sure why that wasn't built enclosed. Other footbridges built in recent times have been.

 

[tsr]

Mutterings are abounding that despite slightly downgraded forecasts on both the Met Office website and BBC News, and only Yellow warnings, the South-East could see some further and possibly more "interesting" amounts of snow over the next couple of days, beyond that which was originally anticipated.

I stress these are mutterings, and in no way official. To be fair, where I am is in an unusual island of black tarmac and only the odd flurry - so I'll believe it when I see it!

Message ends.

 

[bb21]

Apologies if this has already been asked but I've nt got time to read the 10 pages that have appear today.

Does anyone know why it's the metro routes that are having more cancellations on South Western Railway tomorrow. I'm not critising this being the case but wondering what the thinking is for this to be the case? They talk of snow but they seem to think it will be worse around Weymouth, where no service reductions are currently planned. Maybe that is due to the fact they run less services on that section of line.

...

Basically 158/159s are more or less in and out both in terms of crew and stock, so do not cause mayhem when terminated short. At Basingstoke there are also alternative fast services to/from London.

Metro routes are usually the first ones to go because they have alternatives in the form of buses and/or services on other operators. They may be less convenient but they are still alternative options. Further out passengers do not have that option.

 

[infobleep]

Basically 158/159s are more or less in and out both in terms of crew and stock, so do not cause mayhem when terminated short. At Basingstoke there are also alternative fast services to/from London.

Metro routes are usually the first ones to go because they have alternatives in the form of buses and/or services on other operators. They may be less convenient but they are still alternative options. Further out passengers do not have that option.

I appreciate they have more alternative options re metro but what does running less trains allow them operationally? Is it to allow fast trains to use slow lines if needs be or is there something else they can do by running less trains.

After all I thought less trains ran on the metro lines compared to mainline but that might be just the peaks and some mainline trains are cancelled then.

Earlier this evening it suggested, online, snow won't be so bad in Guildford. Now it's gone back to it will be again. This shows how unpredictable this all is. It keeps changing.

Personally speaking I find it more exciting as a result. I really hope I get to travel tomorrow when the snow is falling.

 

[infobleep]

Mutterings are abounding that despite slightly downgraded forecasts on both the Met Office website and BBC News, and only Yellow warnings, the South-East could see some further and possibly more "interesting" amounts of snow over the next couple of days, beyond that which was originally anticipated.

I stress these are mutterings, and in no way official. To be fair, where I am is in an unusual island of black tarmac and only the odd flurry - so I'll believe it when I see it!

Message ends.

For Guildford at least seems to suggest heavy tomorrow afternoon. Earlier it didn't look so bad. Although I love snow so selfishly more the better.

 

[infobleep]

Notable that in the bad old days of BR, when public financial support was a small fraction of what it is nowadays, the resilience was able to run to proper snowploughs at all key depots (generally fashioned out of old steam loco tenders - but Network Rail don't do anything that is not brand new purchase and jumps through 24 hoops of a procurement process). There were point heaters, electric or gas, which now seem to have be drastically reduced in number in later remodellings. There were PW gangs with shovels (the latter an amazing piece of technology). There were porters on stations also with shovels, who did not suffer from the turf war I understand there is now between TOC and NR that no snow is to be shovelled from TOC platform onto NR rails. There were all night de-icing trains run continuously without any argument between TOC and NR over who if anyone should pay for them.

I could go on ...

Well obviously they wouldn't put that on a poster but they could put something else.

 

[bramling]

313's have been suffering significant component failures, that there simply aren't the spares in the system to continually replace at the rate they are failing, so it would seem either pull the fleet for the short term or risk the same fleet causing knock on disruption through failures during the snow or unavailability after the snow.

GN has 2x 313 currently stuck outside Hitchin. First of all there was some kind of issue north of Welwyn (I think a driver had to examine his train for some reason) which resulted in 2152 KX-Cambridge, 2204 KX-Cambridge and 2214 KX-Kings Lynn all being held at Welwyn. This was cleared, but PPM regulating being what it is the 2222 KX-Peterborough got gold star treatment and was run straight through ahead of all the other delayed services. The King’s Lynn train got through, but the rest then got stuck behind the failed 313s approaching Hitchin - which appear to be 2128 Moorgate-Letchworth. 2204 KX-Cam was able to overtake via the fast line, but 2152 KX-Cam was stuck for the duration- perhaps having to do a wrong direction move back to Stevenage? Now about 95 late.

 

[bb21]

I appreciate they have more alternative options re metro but what does running less trains allow them operationally? Is it to allow fast trains to use slow lines if needs be or is there something else they can do by running less trains.

UMS simply has no spare room in the peaks. With the move to a 10-car railway, some previous service recovery techniques are now lost, eg. terminating something in the bay platform at Kingston to release a path in the event of congestion on the UMS. Thinning services out would allow a bit more breathing space and provide a bit more flexibility (for example, switching between UMS and UMF to bypass a blockage or simply congestion as suggested) as the likelihood of something going wrong (an infrastructure failure, a passenger slipping and hurting himself close to the edge of a platform, etc) is high.

 

[Intermodal]

1E29, the 1935 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross is currently 136 minutes late passing York. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70356/2018/02/28/advanced

1E22, the 1600 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross is 320 minutes, a whopping 5 and one quarter hours late approaching Peterborough. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70331/2018/02/28/advanced

1E25 from Aberdeen is doing well at only 251 minutes late past Doncaster. Interestingly this service made it down the Scottish east coast with no issues. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70343/2018/02/28/advanced

1E21 joining 1E22 with a huge delay at 320 minutes past Potters Bar. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70327/2018/02/28/advanced

Looking at the PPM today we can see VTEC, Hull Trains and ScotRail all had around 75% of services more than 30 minutes late or cancelled. TPE, Greater Anglia, Southeastern and GC did better but still not good - around 50% over 30 minutes or cancelled.

VTEC are arranging taxis for onward travel.

 

[Wombat]

SWR will be running an amended service tomorrow.

Current plan appears to be that no Hampton Court, Chessington South or Dorking service will run. Salisbury starters will terminate/start at Basingstoke.

I was planning to work from home (Epsom) on Thursday anyway, and can do so on Friday if necessary, so this doesn't really affect me directly. But I'll admit to being perplexed - why are commuters at these stations being thrown under the bus? If some services are being killed to provide headroom for the survivors I'd expect that principle to be applied evenly across the network, rather than an assertion that service ahould be denied entirely to a particular group of passengers.

 

[bramling]

I was planning to work from home (Epsom) on Thursday anyway, and can do so on Friday if necessary, so this doesn't really affect me directly. But I'll admit to being perplexed - why are commuters at these stations being thrown under the bus? If some services are being killed to provide headroom for the survivors I'd expect that principle to be applied evenly across the network, rather than an assertion that service ahould be denied entirely to a particular group of passengers.

I can understand Hampton Court and Chessington on the basis that they’re both low frequency services which in the grand scheme of things are comparatively less important. If you thin out Chessington, for example, the juice rails will ice up even more than they would already have done, and it’s highly likely something would get stuck.

In reality it’s quite possible the whole network will be in chaos anyway, so the issue may be rather academic.

 

[185143]

Most of the trouble seems to be points failures. For starters I would make sure that point heaters etc are fully functional before the snow starts to fall.

I was on the Skegness branch on Tuesday when the service fell apart spectacularly. We departed late from Sleaford due to a signalling issue at Heckington, which was quickly resolved. Then we stopped again at the signal protecting Hubberts Bridge station. The guard announced that a freight train was reversing into the docks, which also had been delayed by the signal failure, and we shouldn't be there for too long. We were then told that this particular line was only used a couple of time a week at the most and that the points had frozen... If I go into full detail I'll get quite ranty, but lets just summarise by saying I arrived into Boston 153 minutes late, and on a different unit to the one I boarded at Sleaford!

Surely the frieght train shouldn't have been allowed to proceed in the weather conditions knowing that there was a high likelihood the points would fail and stitch up the passenger service for literally hours? We'd have been fine had the freight train not been there!

 

[cuccir]

Virgin East have now made various cancellations/stopping amendments for today. Most services in the morning not going north of Newcastle, and most 'extended' services starting short at more normal terminus eg no services to/from Sunderland, Skipton, etc. Showing in RealTrainTimes but not yet in NRE.

 

[Antman]

No safety-critical staff should even consider reporting for work after spending a night in "a shop doorway" or "a seat that will allow you to stretch out inside a station". Let the guy/woman go home, sleep in a bed and report for duty properly refreshed.

If they can get home, not ideal I know but better to spend the night at work than stuck in a car in the snow somewhere.

 

[LAX54]

If they can get home, not ideal I know but better to spend the night at work than stuck in a car in the snow somewhere.

1987 I spent 3 days continuous in a signalbox, not being able to get home, nor any staff getting in ! (Cantley)

 

[30907]

I can understand Hampton Court and Chessington on the basis that they’re both low frequency services which in the grand scheme of things are comparatively less important. If you thin out Chessington, for example, the juice rails will ice up even more than they would already have done, and it’s highly likely something would get stuck.

In reality it’s quite possible the whole network will be in chaos anyway, so the issue may be rather academic.

And the Dorking trains have alternatives.

 

[bb21]

Surely the frieght train shouldn't have been allowed to proceed in the weather conditions knowing that there was a high likelihood the points would fail and stitch up the passenger service for literally hours? We'd have been fine had the freight train not been there!

You don't cancel a train just because a set of points might fail, otherwise freight trains may as well all grind to a halt this week across the land which would be ridiculous.

On the flip side, there would have been less people stitched up if non-essential travel were postponed for this week, but many still choose to travel regardless.

Such is life.

 

[TUC]

Northern are still impressively running the vast majority of their services https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...evere-weather-causing-disruption-to-services6

 

[CC 72100]

London Paddington now shut. All long distance trains to start and terminate at Reading with service thinned out. Local trains to start and terminate at Ealing Broadway

 

[Wivenswold]

Greater Anglia having a bad morning peak again. The BBC forecast an hour ago suggested Essex will be dry today. However, there's a huge blob of snow heading towards Essex and London right now. With stronger winds today, it could be blizzard conditions across the South. Today is the first day of the Meteorological Spring by the way, just in case it wasn't apparent.

 

[theageofthetra]

London Paddington now shut. All long distance trains to start and terminate at Reading with service thinned out. Local trains to start and terminate at Ealing Broadway

Why? Has the station been declared unsafe?

 

[Failed Unit]

Why? Has the station been declared unsafe?

Apparently- must be snowing much more heavily in West London.