So now the government wants to see if the Chinese would be cheaper

[Class 170101]

And why exactly would we 'bring thousands of Chinese workers to the UK to work on HS2"?

Because we don't have a workforce of sufficient skill and size to complete the task ourselves. We will still need immigration from around the world hoing forward but it is how we manage that workforce in terms of living arrangements and other infrastructure - housing, roads, electricity, water etc that is frankly more important to me.

 

[Gareth]

If that was aimed at me, I can assure you it really does not bother me we have left the EU now.

It was more "in general".

 

[Brush 4]

Don't forget China has just built a hospital in 10 days, the week before last, to deal with the Coronavirus. Pre-fab obviously but opened with 1,600 beds. They did the same in 2003 for the SARS virus. So now we know, declare HS2 a national emergency and let the Chinese handle it.......
https://www.france24.com/en/2020020...ospital-built-from-scratch-in-under-two-weeks

Coronavirus patients arrived Tuesday at a Chinese field hospital built from scratch in under two weeks at the frontline of the outbreak, state media said, following a round-the-clock construction marathon that became a national social media sensation.

The 1,000-bed facility was built to relieve hospitals swamped with patients in Wuhan, the city in Hubei province at the epicentre of the national health emergency that has killed more in China than the 2003 SARS outbreak.

Fifty patients arrived at the military-run facility, the state-backed China Daily reported, with images showing workers in protective suits pushing people in wheelchairs up a ramp and into the pre-fabricated structure.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Don't forget China has just built a hospital in 10 days, the week before last, to deal with the Coronavirus. Pre-fab obviously but opened with 1,600 beds. They did the same in 2003 for the SARS virus. So now we know, declare HS2 a national emergency and let the Chinese handle it.......

Maybe the British managers will use a big numbered board along the full length of one wall of the site office to get their message across to the workers?

 

[ExRes]

Maybe the British managers will use a big numbered board along the full length of one wall of the site office to get their message across to the workers?

It'll have to be a big board to get all the numbers that make up the cost of HS2

 

[XC90]

Just get it built. Who cares if a Chinese company does it? Those who say nay seem to get more than their fair share of airtime. Where has all the positivity went?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Wouldn't it be funny if the first major thing we do after Brexit is bring thousands of Chinese workers to the UK to work on HS2? All those people who voted to leave because of people 'taking our jobs'. It really would be hilarious!

But this is the kind of deal we can do outside the EU, instead of competing for contracts on the EU's level playing field.

Great news everyone! Now that we’ve binned all those pesky regulations guaranteeing employment rights and tendering processes we can ship in overseas labour from the cheapest bidder and pay them less!

 

[hwl]

Don't forget China has just built a hospital in 10 days, the week before last, to deal with the Coronavirus. Pre-fab obviously but opened with 1,600 beds. They did the same in 2003 for the SARS virus. So now we know, declare HS2 a national emergency and let the Chinese handle it.......
https://www.france24.com/en/2020020...ospital-built-from-scratch-in-under-two-weeks

Putting down a concrete base and craneing in some prefabricated portakabin clones could be done in the UK too. They have since discovered the real issue is that they don't have the medical staffing levels to cope so large new facilities are some what academic.

 

[Swimbar]

Just get it built. Who cares if a Chinese company does it? Those who say nay seem to get more than their fair share of airtime. Where has all the positivity went?

The fact is that the current workforce are not the answer. Nothing has been delivered on time for years!

 

[hooverboy]

The fact is that the current workforce are not the answer. Nothing has been delivered on time for years!

so it's not necessarily the workforce that's the problem then is it?, it's the process.

certainly grandstanding politicians moving the goalpoasts every 4 or 5 years doesn't help matters, but it filters all the way down through various government departments all the way through to local government.

I've ranted on before about these endless consultations,planning committes and legal wranglings,and I stand by my point, a lot of them are made unduly complex to keep themselves in gainful employment,rather than to get stuff done.

health and safety being a prime example, going from a body that should work on the basis of "acceptable risk", to one that is trying to prohibit "all risk"(an impossible task because you can't legislate for every idiot/incident, and you strangle inginuity,the economy and productivity in massive cost of adherence to every regulation in the process)

someone like trevithick had exploding boilers to deal with,but his invention formed the basis for the groundbreaking industry that followed.
These days as a start up business, he would never have got it off the ground.

 

[Jurg]

health and safety being a prime example, going from a body that should work on the basis of "acceptable risk", to one that is trying to prohibit "all risk"(an impossible task because you can't legislate for every idiot/incident, and you strangle inginuity,the economy and productivity in massive cost of adherence to every regulation in the process)

I'd be interested in hearing what regulation / legislation seeks to prohibit all risk.

 

[Bald Rick]

The fact is that the current workforce are not the answer. Nothing has been delivered on time for years!

Nothing?

 

[mrcheek]

I think it was said that we'd likely have to allow more immigration from the likes of India, China, the Middle East in return for favourable terms on any trade deal.

Frankly, I can't wait for some leavers to discover this - like 'Colin' found about long queues at Schipol airport this week..

Except that had nothing to do with Brexit, and was due to new staff at the airport.

 

[Swimbar]

Nothing?

Which Rail Infrastructure project has been delivered on time in the last five years? Can't think of one!

 

[mrcheek]

Which Rail Infrastructure project has been delivered on time in the last five years? Can't think of one!

does light rail count? The Trafford extension to the Manchester Metro is actually opening ahead of schedule!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Norton Bridge Upgrade.
Ordsall Chord - I think it was pretty much on schedule after work started (start delayed by legal objections).
Going further back, I think HS1 and its associated infrastructure (St Pancras, Temple Mills etc) was pretty much on time and cost.
That's the nearest equivalent to the HS2 project.

 

[class26]

Which Rail Infrastructure project has been delivered on time in the last five years? Can't think of one!

Norton ?

 

[Bald Rick]

Which Rail Infrastructure project has been delivered on time in the last five years? Can't think of one!

Thousands and thousands of them. But it’s not news when projects are done on time or early.

But for specifics of big projects (other than those above):

Reading - a year early
Waterloo rebuild
New St rebuild
Pretty much every major resignalling
London Bridge - 15 minutes early to a schedule that was set 7 years out for a £2billion project

 

[Grumpy Git]

Reminds me of The Life of Brian;

"What have the Roman's ever done for us"

 

[Bantamzen]

Wouldn't it be funny if the first major thing we do after Brexit is bring thousands of Chinese workers to the UK to work on HS2? All those people who voted to leave because of people 'taking our jobs'. It really would be hilarious!

Funnily enough this is exactly what I said to my wife when we heard about it. Now that would certainly have Brexiteers frothing!

Seriously though, there is merit in at least hearing what the Chinese have to offer. After all they have much more experience than us at high speed rail building, they have the resources and most importantly of all are probably able to undercut other contractors even without compromising design. The fact that zero value contracts might be in place means nothing, this is a political decision and governments can & do drop them on a whim. If the Chinese are able to make a case, don't be surprised if they are actually successful.

 

[Alex McKenna]

The new Tesla Gigafactory in China was producing cars within 12 months, from being a swampy field without any infrastructure at all. The Chinese system does seem to work wonders - but obviously a totalitarian state can simply trample over any opposition - even the twinset-and-pearls NIMBYs - if they got in the way.

 

[mrcheek]

Grant Shapps in an interview with Marr this morning has denied that the government has spoken with China about this.

He also mentioned many of the points raised here, that China doesnt have our planning system, our legal system , our system of property rights, or our respect for workers safety and rights. He claimed that during development and building works for the 2012 Olympics, not a single worker died on site, which apparently is unique in Olympic history

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah its bad in China (8 officially died and leaks that another 12 died and that's just ones we know about), Brazil 11 died on the Olympics and 8 on the World Cup, Qatar World Cup 4,000 workers died building the stadiums!

 

[Lucan]

there is merit in at least hearing what the Chinese have to offer. After all they have much more experience than us at high speed rail building

Why is building a high speed railway infrastucture anything special? My understanding is that the track and OHC will be pretty standard (correct me if I'm wrong), and with earthworks and bridges we seem to have no problem doing those for motorways. The route itself has already been "designed". IDK about signalling, but are we likely to adopt Chinese standards for that? the ORR would have a fit. The trains are a different matter, but I doubt that it would be politically acceptable to build them in China, even if they were a Chinese design.

The only thing the Chinese might bring to the party is project management, but that will only work well if they can use the authoritarian approach which is cultural norm in China itself.

 

[Wolfie]

And why exactly would we 'bring thousands of Chinese workers to the UK to work on HS2"?

Because they would work for Chinese wages and accept Chinese standard H&S, accommodation etc

 

[randyrippley]

A few years back the company I then worked for sent a chap to China to do a quality inspection on a chemical plant we were thinking of using. It was a multimillion $ contract for a key drug intermediate. All seemed OK until he had a quiet word in Chinese with a couple of the workers - the place proved to be a Chinese Army run prison labour camp. The authorities were trying to fool us into believing the site was legitimate.
Faced us with a problem - we had a contract to buy from them and to sell on, but doing so would have been unethical and would have broken the Geneva Convention. But reneging on the contract would have laid us to open to serious legal action.
In the event we were saved by the weather: there was a major flood event and the plant was washed away (from memory the Yellow River) so we were able to claim force majeure on the contract. But the possible ramifications of what could have been still scare me. The whole lot of us would have gone to jail.

Different industry, but its the Chinese way of doing business

 

[Wolfie]

Just get it built. Who cares if a Chinese company does it? Those who say nay seem to get more than their fair share of airtime. Where has all the positivity went?

Probably all the workers at UK companies who would have been supplying items for HS2 and likely would be unemployed as it's all bought in from China...

 

[ExRes]

Because they would work for Chinese wages and accept Chinese standard H&S, accommodation etv

There are plenty of foreign workers in this country already working for third world wages, how else do you get your car cleaned so cheaply or your takeaway delivered so cheaply or your amazon purchase delivered for nothing? and all that while we were EU members, and since when has anyone other than builders worried about how much building site workers of any nationality whatsoever get paid?

"accept Chinese standard H&S" do you seriously think that would be allowed?

 

[Djgr]

Maybe they could take over Northern and TPE, lock, stock and barrel?

 

[al78]

Because they would work for Chinese wages and accept Chinese standard H&S, accommodation etc

So UK law would be thrown in the bin then, and no-one at all would complain about it?