Sold Flimsy Bog Roll Ticket at Manchester Piccadilly Ticket Office

[yorksrob]

To each their own, you'll just have to find a way to store your "bog roll" tickets then as the tide is very much against pieces of orange cardboard.

Typical of today's railway to jettison anything that's actually well designed and works.

 

[6Gman]

I'd rather they just gave me a proper train ticket.

Bring back Edmondson cards!

 

[6Gman]

To each their own, you'll just have to find a way to store your "bog roll" tickets then as the tide is very much against pieces of orange cardboard.

I don't like the bog roll tickets, but I just fold them in half and stick 'em in my wallet.

Simple.

 

[najaB]

Typical of today's railway to jettison anything that's actually well designed and works.

The thing is, they don't work well. Look at all the issues that they cause by being unable to clearly store and/or display routeing, TOC and time of day restrictions, they cause no end of grief for carnet users, season tickets wear out before the end of validity, Rovers can't work barriers, magnetic strips get de-magnetised, they get stuck in TVM machines, it's a pain to make changes to advance purchase tickets...

E-tickets and smart cards, properly implemented, avoid all of these issues.

 

[randyrippley]

What century do you live in?

one where you can't get treated like a criminal when the battery runs flat

 

[najaB]

one where you can't get treated like a criminal when the battery runs flat

If that's your concern:

• Get a phone with a better battery; or
• Buy an external power bank; or
• Print your e-ticket; or
• Transfer the ticket to an e-ink display; or
• Accept that "bog roll" tickets are a thing

 

[yorksrob]

Bring back Edmondson cards!

Well, they would be preferable to the bog roll type.

The thing is, they don't work well. Look at all the issues that they cause by being unable to clearly store and/or display routeing, TOC and time of day restrictions, they cause no end of grief for carnet users, season tickets wear out before the end of validity, Rovers can't work barriers, magnetic strips get de-magnetised, they get stuck in TVM machines, it's a pain to make changes to advance purchase tickets...

E-tickets and smart cards, properly implemented, avoid all of these issues.

I've had no trouble reading routing and restrictions etc on them.

Barriers that don't read rovers etc are that way because they haven't been programmed properly. This means that they still won't read rovers electronically if they haven't been programmed properly (in the same way that the barriers at Wakefield Westgate don't read my plastic zone 3 metrocard because - surprise surprise, no one can be bothered to programme them properly).

The only "pain" I have in making changes to AP tickets is the £10 admin fee !

 

[ChrisC]

I don't like the bog roll tickets, but I just fold them in half and stick 'em in my wallet.

Simple.

That’s what I did last summer when I had the misfortune to be sold an Explore North Wales Rail Rover on one from the ticket office at Crewe.
I folded it and put it in the other side of the plastic wallet that was supplied with my Senior Railcard. Unfortunately after about 3 days I began to notice that the ink was smudging quite badly. Probably something connected with the plastic getting warm in my pocket and condensation. However, this has never happened with the old style ticket.

 

[cactustwirly]

Well, they would be preferable to the bog roll type.



I've had no trouble reading routing and restrictions etc on them.

Barriers that don't read rovers etc are that way because they haven't been programmed properly. This means that they still won't read rovers electronically if they haven't been programmed properly (in the same way that the barriers at Wakefield Westgate don't read my plastic zone 3 metrocard because - surprise surprise, no one can be bothered to programme them properly).

The only "pain" I have in making changes to AP tickets is the £10 admin fee !

No changing advances is awful, you end up with 3 sets of tickets instead of one! Then the excess won't open any barriers, which is ahuge PiTA if you're in a hurry.

 

[Bungle965]

No changing advances is awful, you end up with 3 sets of tickets instead of one! Then the excess won't open any barriers, which is ahuge PiTA if you're in a hurry.

However if your excess does get issued as a bog roll ticket and comes with a barcode on it, more often than not it will open up the gates!
Sam

 

[alistairlees]

Bring back Edmondson cards!

I had thinking of saying the same, as they would seem to best meet Yorksrob's needs.

 

[najaB]

Barriers that don't read rovers etc are that way because they haven't been programmed properly.

No, it's because the ticket simply doesn't hold enough information.

I've had no trouble reading routing and restrictions etc on them.

Go on then, is a ticket with the routing restriction "NOT VIA LONDON" valid via London? In many cases, yes it is. Not confusing in the slightest.

The only "pain" I have in making changes to AP tickets is the £10 admin fee !

Even online purchases, after you've collected them and need to make a change the day before travel?

 

[yorksrob]

I had thinking of saying the same, as they would seem to best meet Yorksrob's needs.

They don't go through the barrier as easily, although they do fit in my ticket wallet.

 

[yorksrob]

No, it's because the ticket simply doesn't hold enough information.

Go on then, is a ticket with the routing restriction "NOT VIA LONDON" valid via London? In many cases, yes it is. Not confusing in the slightest.

Even online purchases, after you've collected them and need to make a change the day before travel?

Nonsense.

The barrier at Leeds has never read my South Pennine Day Ranger whilst the one at Manchester Victoria always has. This is because the one at Vic has been programmed properly.

Not Via London, and the wonders of the routing guide, are not the fault of the existing ticket format. They are the fault of train companies continually trying to restrict routes that are reasonable.

 

[najaB]

Nonsense.

The barrier at Leeds has never read my South Pennine Day Ranger whilst the one at Manchester Victoria always has. This is because the one at Vic has been programmed properly.

I think you'll find it's the other way around - the barrier at Manchester is simply more permissive.

Not Via London, and the wonders of the routing guide, are not the fault of the existing ticket format. They are the fault of train companies continually trying to restrict routes that are reasonable.

I don't deny that it's the routeing guide at fault. The question I'm asking is if you can honestly say that the current ticket format is the best possible way to display the complexity or if, perchance, a new format could explain it better?

 

[yorksrob]

I think you'll find it's the other way around - the barrier at Manchester is simply more permissive.
I don't deny that it's the routeing guide at fault. The question I'm asking is if you can honestly say that the current ticket format is the best possible way to display the complexity or if, perchance, a new format could explain it better?

Well, it lets me through at Victoria when its supposed to, so as far as I'm concerned, it works.

I think that the current format is the most convenient way to hold the information in a physical, non-electronic format. That's not to say that electronic formats might not be better for some (I find my plastic Metrocard ideal for multiple use), it's just that if we are to have physical tickets, the wallet sized card is far superior to a big floppy piece of paper.

 

[221129]

Even if you fold it, it's too wide for the wallet. And the more times you fold something, the less likelihood it will be readable.

Even traditional card tickets aren't immune to this issue, which is why we have ticket wallets in the first place.

The paper bog roll design just isn't suitable for tickets sold in advance.

It's a good job you can get ticket wallets designed for them then isn't it?.

 

[radamfi]

Ticket machines at Man Picc still produce credit card sized tickets so you can buy using a phone, even on station premises, and collect from the machine. So that's an option if you want to buy at the station and have a credit card sized ticket.

 

[yorksrob]

It's a good job you can get ticket wallets designed for them then isn't it?.

It is, but it helps that they are all pocket sized. If one didn't have a ticket wallet, an ordinary ticket would fit easily into a conventional wallet as well.

 

[Tetchytyke]

My preferance would be for the 1990's frankly.

You won't mind till roll tickets then, surely, as that's all you got off a SPORTIS

 

[221129]

It is, but it helps that they are all pocket sized. If one didn't have a ticket wallet, an ordinary ticket would fit easily into a conventional wallet as well.

So does a PRT if you fold it....

 

[yorksrob]

You won't mind till roll tickets then, surely, as that's all you got off a SPORTIS

I did have those on occasion on NSE. They were smaller than the bog roll type, however I still wouldn't want an AP ticket issued on one.

 

[yorksrob]

So does a PRT if you fold it....

We've already discussed the potential problems of folded tickets.

 

[Jonny]

You won't mind till roll tickets then, surely, as that's all you got off a SPORTIS

I seem to recall that SPORTIS used better quality paper.

 

[Puffing Devil]

So does a PRT if you fold it....

The thing is, they don't work well. [...]season tickets wear out before the end of validity

My season ticket for next week is on Bog Roll, courtesy of Crewe ticket office on Sunday. It does not fold well in a wallet to show all of the details. It will not open the gate in the wallett and needs to be removed and refolded after use. After 2/3 days these tickets start to look shabby; there is no way I would want one for a season over a week.

 

[najaB]

It will not open the gate in the wallett and needs to be removed and refolded after use. After 2/3 days these tickets start to look shabby; there is no way I would want one for a season over a week.

I agree. Season tickets shouldn't be on card/paper at all. They should really be on smart card.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Love the title of this thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course there is no practical reason (other than cost) why we could not stick with credit card sized pieces of card for "traditional" tickets, just put a barcode on the back (or front) instead of a magstripe.

The "bog roll" thing is just because it's cheaper.

Not great for seasons, which probably are better on something contactless (be that an actual smartcard or just a simple RFID containing what the barcode contains) but fine for singles and returns.

 

[Darandio]

To me the whole thread is just a mountain out of a bog roll. Just think in the future how much we'll all save on Andrex.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To add a bit of (lavatorial) humour to the discussion, can anyone comment, perhaps having been "caught short" sans papier on a train, as to the qualities of these "bog roll" tickets when used for that alternative purpose?