Sold impossible Eurostar connection

[oversteer]

Booked a Eurostar journey recently from Bristol and called the domestic sales to book the CIV tickets.

It turns out that the inbound was a 'Euro Std Single' with seat reservation (£29.90) the return was sold as an Advance (£18.60) - on a train departing Paddington 32 minutes after the Eurostar arrived, so due to a slightly late arrival, and delayed Circle line, that the Advance connection was missed.

The guard did not accept the CIV connection and instead sold the a new ticket - with the railcard, £20.80 - I am a bit miffed we were not sold the correct ticket.

I suppose we are only a tenner down, and should have checked the minimum connection times, but is it worth asking either FGW or E* for a refund of the ticket?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Was the Advance from 'London International (CIV)' or 'London Terminals'/'Zone U1*'?

 

[island]

Or perhaps Lndon Estar CIV?

 

[oversteer]

It was from Lndon Estar CIV
Edit: actually I've just guessed that based on the price.
It may have been the Zone 1* ticket. I'll get the person travelling to send a photo of their ticket.

 

[yorkie]

The Guard was wrong. Write to the company. Can you name and shame? I am happy to proof read a letter.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It was from Lndon Estar CIV
Edit: actually I've just guessed that based on the price.
It may have been the Zone 1* ticket. I'll get the person travelling to send a photo of their ticket.

If it was Lndon Estar CIV, it sounds like the guard made a 'genuine mistake' and should have let you travel on the Advance ticket, my advice would be to write to First Great Western, explaining what happened. They should refund the £20.80 fare that was paid out (you may have to send off the tickets). There is no need to name and shame (particularly on here), but it may help FGW if you can identify, to them, the guard so that they can be briefed on CIV regulations in relation to delays whilst travelling. They can probably get the necessary info from the ticket, but it would save them some time.

 

[LexyBoy]

Does CIV apply even if the connexion was not practical in the first place?

There is an £18.60 Advance from Lndon Estar but this does not have a railcard discount. There is one at £18.10 with Railcard.

Anyway, a Bristol-London Intl CIV Euro High Saver is only £49.50 so the tickets sold were a poor choice IMO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If it was Lndon Estar CIV, it sounds like the guard made a 'genuine mistake'

If it's a "genuine mistake" then surely a financial penalty would be appropriate?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....If it's a "genuine mistake" then surely a financial penalty would be appropriate?

Presumably provided the passengers put up posters at all affected stations in a prominent position stating how and when and where the financial penalty could apply and have an independant body in place to deal with all the appeals.....:roll:

 

[Tibbs]

Presumably provided the passengers put up posters at all affected stations in a prominent position stating how and when and where the financial penalty could apply and have an independant body in place to deal with all the appeals.....:roll:

Don't worry, for the 'independent appeals' you can just move into a different chair a la IRCAS/IPFAS etc...

 

[Haywain]

If it was Lndon Estar CIV, it sounds like the guard made a 'genuine mistake' and should have let you travel on the Advance ticket, my advice would be to write to First Great Western, explaining what happened.

A CIV Advance ticket is a strange thing, but is intended to protect you in the event of delays. As there was no delay in this case, I'm not entirely convinced the guard was wrong, although I think charging in these circumstances was the wrong decision. I think the OP should take this up with FGW, but should also be taking the matter up with Eurostar as they were the ones who really caused the problem. As the vendor of both tickets (and primary CIV carrier) they really should be capable of adhering to the recommended connection times and not putting their customers in this sort of position to start with.

 

[Greenback]

Haywain, you are talking a lot of sense there!

 

[oversteer]

I mentioned the railcard at the time of booking but apparently it couldn't be used because the inbound train to Paddington was a peak service. I didn't think about the return leg being separate (and late in the evening) so I guess the railcard could have been applied to that leg.
But in all this I have to consider that the 45 minute connection time between St Pancras and Paddington was not adhered to during the booking, maybe that is a factor that has to be considered..

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....But in all this I have to consider that the 45 minute connection time between St Pancras and Paddington was not adhered to during the booking, maybe that is a factor that has to be considered..

To be fair, Journey Planner, at work, allows 30 minutes if I put a journey to start at St Pancras (which I think the Eurostar person would have done) to Bristol, but notes it is 15 minutes journey time between the two London stations. It's quite possible the clerk was unaware that the journey planner did not account for the connection time at St Pancras, and didn't add it on manually.

 

[jon0844]

My dad did a search from Cheshunt to Basildon, and it comes up with a change from Liverpool Street to Fenchurch Street of 4 minutes.

FOUR minutes? It can take four minutes to get out of Liverpool Street when it's busy! And you can be told a far longer time to cross the road from King's Cross to St Pancras.

 

[Haywain]

It's quite possible the clerk was unaware that the journey planner did not account for the connection time at St Pancras, and didn't add it on manually.

Whilst there was clerk error, one might expect that an outlet that sells a ticket that is only available to those arriving (or departing) on Eurostar services might well be fully aware of the extended connection times that apply.

And, for the record, the standard transfer time between St Pancras and Paddington is 45 minutes, and an extra 35 minutes should be added for Eurostar connections.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Whilst there was clerk error, one might expect that an outlet that sells a ticket that is only available to those arriving (or departing) on Eurostar services might well be fully aware of the extended connection times that apply.....

And maybe they were quite new to the job? Maybe they have made the journey plenty of times well inside the 30 minutes the computer obviously allowed? (some people on this very forum say the connection times are too long!). Maybe they haven't had to sell such a ticket for a long while and didn't even give it a second thought? Maybe the local manager has told them it is included? Maybe no-one else has complained about it before and so it has gone unnoticed?

I'm sure I could go on.......

 

[Haywain]

I'm sure I could go on.......

I'm sure you could, but I don't think the expectation I expressed could be considered unreasonable.

 

[yorkie]

If new to the job and in doubt, don't charge!

I wouldn't expect to get away with treating customers so badly.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm sure you could, but I don't think the expectation I expressed could be considered unreasonable.

I wouldn't say it was unreasonable either, I'm just offering potential reasons.

If new to the job and in doubt, don't charge!....

Refuse the sale you mean? Don't think that would have gone down well.

 

[Abpj17]

For that particular connection, my preferred route is to sneak out the side door, grab a cab from the quieter King's Cross rank instead of the St. Pancras one which always seems to have a massive queue of just-stepped-off the eurostar/midland mainline, and get the cab to Paddington.

The walk to the tube line is such a trek at St P.

 

[yorkie]

The walk depends on where you are going. The sub surface lines are not as far as the Victoria line tube. Northern line tube is perhaps the shortest walk (via the northern ticket hall)

 

[oversteer]

To conclude, Eurostar refunded the amount charged by FGW. They agreed that the connection was not valid and should not have been sold as such.

 

[yorkie]

To conclude, Eurostar refunded the amount charged by FGW. They agreed that the connection was not valid and should not have been sold as such.

That's good, but I still don't think the FGW guard should have charged you in the circumstances.

I know from a friendly FGW guard that FGW are keen for their guards to show discretion when appropriate, and to offer high levels of customer service. Clearly that wasn't the case here.

Have FGW responded at all? I'd still make a complaint about that if I were you, if you haven't already.

 

[Flamingo]

... FGW are keen for their guards to show discretion when appropriate...

And even when it's not... :roll:

(Not referring to this case or the OP I hasten to add, I'd have clipped it, apologised for the delay, told them their revised arrival time, asked them if they had a nice holiday and moved on...)

 

[yorkie]

And even when it's not... :roll:

Indeed, I was thinking that! I totally agree that it goes too far the other way sometimes.