Some guidance, before I waste my own (and other people's) time.

[Choo_Choo]

New user here and hello.

Initially, forgive me, for the line of questioning which has probably been answered a million times.

Anyway, I have an interview to be a trainee driver, next week, for Northern.

I'm after some guidance as to whether this could be the right job for me? Why? Because I'm doing it for the money and because I hate my current job.

I'm a serving Police officer, and have been for nearly 10 years. Disillusion with the Police doesn't even begin to cut it. I despise every ounce of the job. The disrespect, the pressure, the staffing, the workload, the danger, the lack of career progression, and so on. I'd say there''s 20% of the job I like, and 80% I hate. I'm demotivated and can't be bothered anymore, and (as much as I'm ashamed to admit), will actively dodge work and jobs, and have become one of the bobbies I hate so much when I first joined.

I've felt like this for about 3 years now. I applied for freight with DB Schenker last year but they cancelled the application process halfway through, citing company restructure.

I *think* I'd stand a reasonable chance with Northern, just because of the life experiance being a bobby for a decade has given me.

I'm pulling in about £38,000 a year at the moment. And i know i'd take a huge hit on being a trainee until I got up to qualified driver wage.

My thought process for applying to be a driver is more money, less hours, shift patterns (i'm used to them), and effectively, less pressure. Not having to look over my shoulder all the time for the IPCC or a zealous supervisor trying to have my job off me, or wondering if the 5th domestic argument of the night will be the one where I get my nose broken or similar. I've become more anxious of people as time has gone on, and have another 30 years to go before I retire. I'm not sure I can hack it any longer.

I'm uncertain about being a driver though, maybe it's the uncertainty of leaving a job I'm so used to, and can do quite easily, the fear of change or something, I dunno.

I'd hate to walk out of the Police and regret it in a few years (although I doubt I would), but also think it's unfair to have my hat in the ring for a job I might regret doing in a few years, when there's others out there who might be more passionate than me?

I apologise for the ramble, as you can see I'm a bit of a lost soul at the moment with regards employment.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[scotraildriver]

We have LOTS of ex police here who were disillusioned like yourself. I've never heard anyone say they regretted the move.

 

[district]

There were 4 ex police officers and an ex PCSO on my induction, you'd be in good company.

 

[jameshammond]

Rather than thinking about what you are leaving behind, think about what you may / may not be doing. I'd say don't just do the job because you don't want to be in the police, it's a job where you will be working on your own for long periods of time, is this something that you would suit? You'll be sitting down concentrating staring ahead all day long.

Not trying to push you away, just I've seen police officers come over because or the pay and perks but really don't know what they let themselves in for

 

[Choo_Choo]

Rather than thinking about what you are leaving behind, think about what you may / may not be doing. I'd say don't just do the job because you don't want to be in the police, it's a job where you will be working on your own for long periods of time, is this something that you would suit? You'll be sitting down concentrating staring ahead all day long.

Not trying to push you away, just I've seen police officers come over because or the pay and perks but really don't know what they let themselves in for

Working solo is fine. In fact, I hate working with other people. I insist when I'm at work, that I work 'single crewed'. Maybe I'm not a people person haha :P

 

[Johncleesefan]

Plenty of ex police round my area in the railway too. Rather than thinking what your leaving, think about what your joining. Its a high profile job that definately has its perks. I left my last job of 6years walking into the unknown and it was the best decision I made. Sure its intense I wont lie. The first year is tough but you must have been through similar in police and hopefully u wont get a broken nose In this job. Go for it, and as for solo, lone work, I had done it before anyway but I like my own space where my ocd can set everything up perfectly

 

[russmcp]

I'm ex cop. Don't do it for the money only. You are still accountable. Things will go wrong and you will be under scrutiny, like your old job.

Yes you work shifts as a copper and I remember 25 hour days etc but the shifts can be very tiring, starting before 4AM one week then not finishing until after 2AM the week after.

I have no regrets, am happier but I didn't do it for the money only.

 

[whoosh]

I know of at least four ex-police officers at my company. One is a trainee driver and was in the police for 18 years.

It sounds like you want a change of career, and are quite rightly looking at the railway as an option. Go for it, you want to leave anyway, and I would say most train drivers (not all though of course!) enjoy going to work. Give it a go - it's better to regret trying something, than to regret not trying something.

 

[ComUtoR]

You should always go for it. Nothing is stopping you and there is plenty of advice up in the big long sticky.

A couple of mis-perceptions

My thought process for applying to be a driver is more money,

Yep we get paid more. Circa £50kpa with plenty of opportunity for overtime. I'd say most of the railway is well paid.

less hours,

Not a clue how may hours a cozzer "works" but I do a 35hr/4day week average.

shift patterns

Yep. We work 24/7 Various TOC's have differing shift patterns but you generally work to a roster early/late shift. You name a time, I've worked it.

and effectively, less pressure.

Sadly there can be a lot of pressure on Drivers. It can be high intensity and we suffer from fatigue, both mental and physical. There is a lot of pressure to maintain a high level of safety and the slightest error can cost you your job.

Not having to look over my shoulder all the time for the IPCC or a zealous supervisor trying to have my job off me

We are rigorously overseen by many watchful eyes. Everything we do is recorded by a data recorder and that is pulled on a regular basis. We are assessed constantly and expected to maintain a high standard. The railway is also management heavy and some are very zealous. They spend 2yrs giving you your key and then the rest of your career trying to take it away. This is the most discipline heavy job I have ever been in. I have lost count of the number of Drivers on some form of competency management (action plan) or warning of some sort. Chuck in the passengers grassing you up for every little thing you do; including having a cuppa tea on the platform !!! I can stop at 60/70 platforms a day but get a single stop wrong and your in the office getting pulled over the coals.

or wondering if the 5th domestic argument of the night will be the one where I get my nose broken or similar. I've become more anxious of people as time has gone on,

A fair few of our Driver have been assaulted. Guards more so. No doubt you know the public well.

Lastly, never work for the money. It's a great job and I enjoy it and you should go for it but it can get to you and not everyone makes it. Clearly you have a strong character and have made it in a insane industry so you should make it as a Driver, but its not all roses and gold.

We got a few ex coppers.

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

You should always go for it. Nothing is stopping you and there is plenty of advice up in the big long sticky.

A couple of mis-perceptions



Yep we get paid more. Circa £50kpa with plenty of opportunity for overtime. I'd say most of the railway is well paid.




Not a clue how may hours a cozzer "works" but I do a 35hr/4day week average.



Yep. We work 24/7 Various TOC's have differing shift patterns but you generally work to a roster early/late shift. You name a time, I've worked it.



Sadly there can be a lot of pressure on Drivers. It can be high intensity and we suffer from fatigue, both mental and physical. There is a lot of pressure to maintain a high level of safety and the slightest error can cost you your job.



We are rigorously overseen by many watchful eyes. Everything we do is recorded by a data recorder and that is pulled on a regular basis. We are assessed constantly and expected to maintain a high standard. The railway is also management heavy and some are very zealous. They spend 2yrs giving you your key and then the rest of your career trying to take it away. This is the most discipline heavy job I have ever been in. I have lost count of the number of Drivers on some form of competency management (action plan) or warning of some sort. Chuck in the passengers grassing you up for every little thing you do; including having a cuppa tea on the platform !!! I can stop at 60/70 platforms a day but get a single stop wrong and your in the office getting pulled over the coals.



A fair few of our Driver have been assaulted. Guards more so. No doubt you know the public well.

Lastly, never work for the money. It's a great job and I enjoy it and you should go for it but it can get to you and not everyone makes it. Clearly you have a strong character and have made it in a insane industry so you should make it as a Driver, but its not all roses and gold.

We got a few ex coppers.

This is sound advice, do not think this is a bed of roses, you can kiss your social life, use of mobile phone, a drink and any hobby goodbye too.

If you are only going into being a driver for the money, then you will begin to feel the same as you do now, very, very quickly. I consider myself a railway man through and through and when there is hassle, and I'm shattered and fingers and thumbs, I often think : " Why the hell did I want to do this so much ", yet equally there are still those lovely, man and train in perfect harmony moments, when you are a skilled God, and do everything perfectly !

It's horses for courses, like everything, but the grass is never quite as green !

 

[Footplate1]

I've been doing footplate for over 20 years I was driving the high speed intercity 125 trains back in the British rail days.

Answer the following;

Do you long to feel the "boost rush" of a 142 class accelerating away from a station?

Do you have a desire to do some footplate?

Do you have a desire to feel the power and torque of a 150 class as it hits full turbo boost?

Can you cope with frequent suicides which DO happen often?

If yes to the above you MAY make the grade.

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

I've been doing footplate for over 20 years I was driving the high speed intercity 125 trains back in the British rail days.

Answer the following;

Do you long to feel the "boost rush" of a 142 class accelerating away from a station?

Do you have a desire to do some footplate?

Do you have a desire to feel the power and torque of a 150 class as it hits full turbo boost?

Can you cope with frequent suicides which DO happen often?

If yes to the above you MAY make the grade.

You forgot to add : And feel the power of the 142 brakes as they grip the rails at your 90th station stop of the day, with another 6 days in work to go for another 450 stops, at the same stations !

 

[Footplate1]

You forgot to add : And feel the power of the 142 brakes as they grip the rails at your 90th station stop of the day, with another 6 days in work to go for another 450 stops, at the same stations !

Yes in all seriousness this "game" isn't for everyone, I pull in around £70k a year with a little overtime but it's not all a bed of roses. Only today I was doing a turn and I rolled up at a station to abuse from passengers waiting at the station tapping their watches even though I was on time, I felt like getting out of my cab and knocking them the f@#% out! It can be annoying and repetitive at times especially on a warm day driving round Leeds in a 142!

 

[devinier]

You forgot to add : And feel the power of the 142 brakes as they grip the rails at your 90th station stop of the day, with another 6 days in work to go for another 450 stops, at the same stations !

You make that sound like a bad thing.

 

[tlionhart]

ComUtor's advice is spot on (as are others)
Certainly don't do the job purely for the money. (I personally think it's not a good idea as a new driver to whack the overtime in to earn the big bucks. You need to use this time to take it easy and get use to the job) the true dangers are when you become complacent...
This is the only job where I've had to honestly give 100% all the time...unless I'm spare

 

[ComUtoR]

You make that sound like a bad thing.

It is. Repetitive behaviour leads to unconscious competency, which is a safety risk. One of the biggest risks that metro has is the repetitive nature of the job. Same stations, Same signal sequences, day in, day out, then boom STP diagram and you offside release

like tlionhart states. This is 100% all the time. Concentration is a must and is why the Group Bourdon test, amongst others, is done. That minor drop in concentration is one of the reasons why trap and drags happen.

Also braking at the same point every single day.... Ohhh what's that black slimy stuff... Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[driver9000]

Working solo is fine. In fact, I hate working with other people. I insist when I'm at work, that I work 'single crewed'. Maybe I'm not a people person haha :P

You may wish to revisit that stance as at Northern you will be working someone else and you will have no option but to work with them - your conductor. You will be working alone in the cab but you will be working as part of a team especially when the balloon goes up.

Good luck to you, I know a few ex police who have made the move and have had no regrets about it.

 

[Dave1980]

I've been a PCSO for nine years now mate and I've given up trying to become a PC as I'm disillusioned with the job the same as you and virtually every other PC I work with. Always fancied this job in the back of my mind and can honestly say now I would much prefer this than being a PC until I'm 60.

Good luck to you pal!

 

[BTU]

ComUtor's advice is spot on (as are others)
Certainly don't do the job purely for the money. (I personally think it's not a good idea as a new driver to whack the overtime in to earn the big bucks. You need to use this time to take it easy and get use to the job) the true dangers are when you become complacent...
This is the only job where I've had to honestly give 100% all the time...unless I'm spare

I give it 100% when I'm spare usually on the sofa sleeping , also it sounds like there's a few Southern drivers answering these questions in which case all of it is true but there's better companies out there as I found out to my delight . On a serious note I did my old job for 20 years then became a driver and to be honest some days I love it and some days I grin and bear it but like someone said you do get the man and machine in perfect harmony days and that is rewarding but you are dragged over the hot coals if you screw up even a little bit and you are monitored a lot , me personally I just get on with it I don't think about big brother but if you are the type of person who hates being scrutinised you will find it hard to take especially when the person giving it to you has never driven a train and starts dishing out the action plan based on his previous job in Tesco .

 

[ChooChoo11]

This is sound advice, do not think this is a bed of roses, you can kiss your social life, use of mobile phone, a drink and any hobby goodbye too.

Is it really that bad? I am currently awaiting medical as Trainee Driver, but am seriously wondering if I should do it? I've always wanted to and can't beieve I'm questioning myself. I have a couple of questions -

1. I have 2 small children, are they saying goodbye to Daddy forever if I take the job? Any other drivers here with young children? How do they find it?

2. Does anyone have any actual examples of Northern driver rota's? Every person seems to start at 4am one week and finish at 2am the next, surely there are shift/links in between there? What's a typical format with start/finish times? I've scoured the forums but don't find many examples.

3. I'm no raging alcoholic at all but what is the actual booze rule? Is it no drinking for 24 hours before turn? (This isn't a big deal I'm just curious)

Seriously though I love these forums and have been viewing them for years. Thanks in advance for any help/advice people can offer.

 

[greatkingrat]

Actually you will probably see more of your children. With a 9-5 job you might be leaving the house before they wake up and not getting back until it is almost bedtime, however with driving you will be able to spend a few hours with them every day, either after an early shift or before a late shift.

4am start or 2am finish is the worst case scenario, you won't do that every day, each job will have different start times. It might be 0400 Monday, 0700 Tuesday, 0530 Wednesday etc

There isn't a fixed time before a shift in which you can't drink alcohol, you just need to make sure obviously that it is out of your system by the time you book on. Allowing 24 hours should be fine.

 

[Johncleesefan]

If u have an offer then snap it up right away. You may never get the opportunity again ever.

I have a 2 yr old and a 4 month old. I find plenty of time for them what with a 4 day week 35 hrs a week and a long weekend (5consec days off) every 3 weeks.

I don't work for northern but my earliest is 04:50 and latest finish is 01:00 and then there is 2 night shifts at my depot.

You can drink as much as you like just be sure to have 0% alcohol in your blood when u book on and throughout your duty. I enjoy the odd Bev every now and again and try to refrain on a school night.

Hope that helps you a bit. Pm me if you want

 

[ComUtoR]

4am start or 2am finish is the worst case scenario, you won't do that every day, each job will have different start times. It might be 0400 Monday, 0700 Tuesday, 0530 Wednesday etc

0400-0500 starts are the majority of my depots early turns. 04XX is regular as, er, clockwork. Oddly I prefer them as you tend to finish before 1400 and I can make the school run. Typically I finish after midnight on our late turns. It really is dependent on TOC, and location. My point is that we DO work 24/7.

The kids thing is weird as how much I see of mine has changed as they have grown up. More time when they were little but less when they went to school. My issue has never been how much I see them but how much quality time I have. Shift work has its benefits that's for sure but it's the inflexibility of the roster that is the killer. I'm missed some significant days but gained others. Taking the rough with the smooth is the best mentality. My kids have also grown up with me as a Driver so they understand when I can't make parents evening and they understand when I've fallen asleep on the sofa 'cause I was early shift.

Drink responsibly. We get random tests and sign a legal document daily to say we haven't been drinking. We just lost 2 to alcohol test failure. Its not rocket science. If your working, don't drink.

Its a 4 day week so often I feel like I'm never at work. I've just had a run of 6 days off

DON'T HESSITATE, JUST APPLY !

 

[70014IronDuke]

I've been a PCSO for nine years now mate and I've given up trying to become a PC as I'm disillusioned with the job the same as you and virtually every other PC I work with. Always fancied this job in the back of my mind and can honestly say now I would much prefer this than being a PC until I'm 60.

Good luck to you pal!

This is an interesting thread, but very worrying at the same time if the disillusionment in Her Majesty's constablularies is really so widespread. If it's true, then there should be a serious review of things.

Do they KNOW about this?

 

[Trico382]

This is an interesting thread, but very worrying at the same time if the disillusionment in Her Majesty's constablularies is really so widespread. If it's true, then there should be a serious review of things.

Do they KNOW about this?

Unfortunately this is a very real issue at the moment. I have 10 years service and now in a pool to start with a TOC. Since hearing I am leaving the only responses I've had from people in work have been along the lines of "congrats on getting out" and "where can I do the same?"! It has gone downhill drastically in my short 10 years and is only going to get worse. There are many reasons why there is an apparent movement towards an exodus and low morale but all too many to go into on here!

 

[sennaf15]

I'm a Prison Officer of 16yrs and feel the same. Being a Prison Officer is probably the most dangerous job I've ever been involved with and seeing fellow colleagues being assaulted on a daily basis has made me re-think my career path. I have chosen the trains mainly because one of my friends is a driver for Northern and has repeatedly told me to apply for a position, so I did and I'm now waiting for my interview date.

 

[387star]

off topic

 

[plastictaffy]

A close friend of mine recently left the police force after 23 years for much the same reasons and went through the same thought process as you. Many times over many pints he asked if I thought he was doing the right thing. We eventually came to the conclusion that if he stayed as was for for the next 7 years for the full pension, he'd probably end up a bitter old cop, still on anti-d's because of the relentless pressure of the job, regretting not taking the opportunity that presented itself.

He's been out for nearly 4 months. He says that he now sleeps well, he's got his mojo back and he is just generally a better, nicer person to be around. He also no longer looks washed out (he wasn't a PC, he had a desk bound job that required some quite big decisions multiple times a day) and has taken up exercise again, as he has so much energy.

It's a big thing to, as he puts it "take the number off your shoulder", but he doesn't miss any aspect of the job now. If you're that disillusioned, and I suspect he would agree with me, get out now while you still have your sanity.

Good luck.

 

[mulder]

I've been police staff for the last 9 years and the disillusionment is the same with us. Treated like crap by management, the public and even some officers. In just 9 years the job has gone from being a pleasure to go to work to some nights being hell. My job was under review for 5 years and now has been decided i'll be taking a huge cut in pay. Ive been applying to be a trainee driver for 3 years now. Nearly got in first time getting to the DM interview with TPE but not even managed to get past the sift since, but definitely not giving up.

 

[DunfordBridge]

Yes in all seriousness this "game" isn't for everyone, I pull in around £70k a year with a little overtime but it's not all a bed of roses. Only today I was doing a turn and I rolled up at a station to abuse from passengers waiting at the station tapping their watches even though I was on time, I felt like getting out of my cab and knocking them the f@#% out! It can be annoying and repetitive at times especially on a warm day driving round Leeds in a 142!

Better be careful not to look at my watch when I go to Leeds next! In Scarborough I attract derision for wearing the wrong kind of shorts.