Someone impersonated me and now I have to go to court.

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Sahra, 10 Jul 2019.

  1. Bearclaw

    Bearclaw Member

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    Revision notes - even a dump of browsing history if indeed it was being used - thats all evidence that can be adduced and can be helpful.
     
  2. RunawayTrain

    RunawayTrain Member

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    If the official who apprehended the person in 1st Class wore a bodycam it would prove it wasn't the OP.
     
  3. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    It’s a bit late to be asking for footage from February.
     
  4. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Plus they don't wear cameras.
     
  5. RunawayTrain

    RunawayTrain Member

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    Thameslink state they use body cams in their privacy policy.
     
  6. ashkeba

    ashkeba Member

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    I seem to remember a certain ferry company referring to hot food deliveries in their website policies. That is not proof that they delivered any hot food (or actually ran any ferries).
     
  7. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    For some basic facts, apart from full name and address, what personal information would be required to take when PF is to be issued? Date of Birth?
     
  8. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    Also, it maybe a good idea to alert London Travelwatch to get to court on the day. They may make a very nice media coverage over GTR for their failing to recognise a real identity.
     
  9. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    I can only assume this is tongue in cheek.
     
  10. RunawayTrain

    RunawayTrain Member

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    Their clear statement that body cams are used is surely to be taken at face value - unless you happen to know they definitely do not and their website is mistaken? In which case, fair enough.
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2019
  11. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    First off, Alexandra Palace is a red herring: it just happened to be where the train had stopped, or was nearest to, when the person was caught in First Class without relevant ticket, so never having been to A.P. station is irrelevant.

    Secondly, the o.p. doesn't say whether they believe someone may have got hold of their identity in any way, presumably something with the o.p.'s address on it as well. If not, who do they know who knew both their name and address well enough to recite it to a Revenue Inspector, albeit the name may have been slightly corrupted or the R.I. may have noted what was told them incorrectly (unlikely, I'd have thought.)

    If I were the o.p. and knew I was innocent I'd certainly demand the prosecution produce the evidence (CCTV, bodycam, and identification documents seen at the time) and, presuming they couldn't given that scenario, ask the magistrate to dismiss the charges. On the other hand, from what can be seen of the redacted letter, it seems some identification was sought and got but the person ('she') declined to answer further questions. Umm, I'm trying to put myself in the magistrate's position, and I'm ex-Probation Service, not that I was ever involved in any fare evasion cases.

    Good luck to the o.p. in any case.
     
  12. MotCO

    MotCO Member

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    Do RPIs seek corraboration of identity at the time of the offence? (I can't see where it says some identification was sought.) (To the OP) If so, I would be concerned if they produced some id which could suggest that someone else has cloned your identity. Have you had any strange charges on your bank statements etc. I just wonder if you can provide some evidence that your identity has been cloned, then it may cast some doubt on the prosecution's case.
     
  13. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    I agree that it doesn't say that identification was sought, nor that any was given, but I'm trying to be logical and assume that at some stage the name and address of the o.p. was either given verbally or some sort of document was produced with it on, unless the TOC are just going through mailing lists, or whatever, and sending random summonses! They have to have had a reason for thinking the o.p. was the person allegedly making the journey in First Class when they shouldn't have been. I'm being dispassionate: I can see potential holes in both of what I take the prosecution and defence cases might be.
     
  14. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    Just because they say they use body cameras doesn't mean that every member of staff has been equipped with them
    It doesn't mean that they were in use on the day in question.
    Or turned on
    In any case body cameras don't usually record continuously - they normally only record if the operator switches the camera into the record mode.
    The footage is only normally kept for a limited amount of time (usually 31 days)
     
  15. RunawayTrain

    RunawayTrain Member

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    I agree with everything except your last sentence - indeed a body cam may not have been used, I only included the suggestion as another avenue that may help the OP in establishing that it wasn't her, as there is a chance one may have been used (or CCTV from the train) and a recording or still image kept. Regarding the length of time a recording is kept, Thameslink's privacy policy makes exceptions to their 20 and 30 day norm for use in legal action.
     
  16. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    But they don't. I believe they will, and have been planning to for some time, but they don't today.
     
  17. RunawayTrain

    RunawayTrain Member

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    Ah, good to know - thanks for the info.
     
  18. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    That doesn't mean that they will keep it for longer, just that they can. TBH they're only likely to keep the footage for cases of abuse, assault etc against their staff, I doubt they'd keep it for a ticketing issue.
     
  19. nuts & bolts

    nuts & bolts Member

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    Certainly, Dob is requested along with any proof of name & address together with a phone call to an agency to confirm said details.

    So in essence with the information (the prosecuting TOC) have further collated - must be strong?

    For the OP you have nothing to worry about as you state your identity has allegedly been used fraudulently!
     
  20. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    That's a rather bold statement without knowing what evidence the train operator has available to present to the court.
     
  21. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    Apart from the pre-court preparations. It may be good to call in London Travelwatch to help (at least to be witnessing in court)
     
  22. nuts & bolts

    nuts & bolts Member

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    As others posters have pointed out, it' s for the TOC to prove guilt but surely not on flimsy evidence?
     
  23. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    How do you know the evidence is flimsy? The TOC have, presumably, a verified name and address and a brief description. If these match the OP they are not going to be completely discounted by the OP simply saying "Wasn't me" with nothing to back that up.
     
  24. Fawkes Cat

    Fawkes Cat Member

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    I am led to understand (from people who work in an area of the civil law, which of course has a different and lower standard of proof) that verbal evidence counts for quite a lot: if someone is prepared to attend court, swear that they will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and tell their story, that counts for quite a lot: I don't know, but I would expect, that judges (and magistrates) are pretty good at recognising when someone is telling the truth.

    But we're not here to disbelieve the OP. We've not seen anything to suggest that she's not telling the truth to us. If she is telling us less than the truth, then our advice won't be much help to her in that we've explained how to tell the truth: if she's doing otherwise, she will find that her story falls to pieces if (for example) the railway's witnesses are able to identify her.
     
  25. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    I'm not choosing to disbelieve anyone, but dismissing the idea that the TOC have evidence doesn't help anymore than the statement below.
     
  26. nuts & bolts

    nuts & bolts Member

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    If the OP is ‘innocent’ then case dismissed.

    But we cannot discount completely (no disrespect to the OP) if we don’t know the whole facts - hence my open ended statement!
     
  27. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    GTR Rail Enforcement Officers definitely use bodycams (and have done for a couple of years now), and one of them may well have been involved in this case, for all we know.
     
  28. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Rail Enforcement Officers don’t usually (if ever) get involved in revenue protection on GTR services north of London.
     
  29. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    If they won't respond to phone calls, is there a physical address that you can visit? If it was me, I would be round there 24/7 until I got to speak to the right people and got the case dropped.
     
  30. nuts & bolts

    nuts & bolts Member

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    But don’t GTR have their own ‘Rail community officers’ working along their TOC’s line of route?
     

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