• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Someone impersonated me and now I have to go to court.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sahra

Member
Joined
10 Jul 2019
Messages
5
Hello,

So a week and half or so I received a letter from Govia Thameslink Railway fare evasion manager to inform me I’m being prosecuted for travelling in first class without a valid ticket on the 13th of February of this year. The station was Alexandra Palace. The thing is this was not me. The day after, on the 14th of Feb I would be flying out and as a student with deadlines I was most likely (it’s hard to say for 100%) at home/local cafe revising. I can 100% say I’ve never been to Alexandra Palace station and do not take the Thameslink frequently. Probably once in my life. This was absolutely not me. It’s far from where I live in London. I responded in the time frame and received a follow up letter today which indicates they are moving forward with this case and will be receiving a summons to attend magistrates court. I’m thoroughly confused. This was not me, they have spelt my name wrong, also. How do I prove this? I don’t think I travelled that day. Any advice?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Hello,

So a week and half or so I received a letter from Govia Thameslink Railway fare evasion manager to inform me I’m being prosecuted for travelling in first class without a valid ticket on the 13th of February of this year. The station was Alexandra Palace. The thing is this was not me. The day after, on the 14th of Feb I would be flying out and as a student with deadlines I was most likely (it’s hard to say for 100%) at home/local cafe revising. I can 100% say I’ve never been to Alexandra Palace station and do not take the Thameslink frequently. Probably once in my life. This was absolutely not me. It’s far from where I live in London. I responded in the time frame and received a follow up letter today which indicates they are moving forward with this case and will be receiving a summons to attend magistrates court. I’m thoroughly confused. This was not me, they have spelt my name wrong, also. How do I prove this? I don’t think I travelled that day. Any advice?

I'm sure someone will be along to clarify in more detail, but I've seen it stated on this forum before that you can draft some sort of legal statement to indicate it wasn't you that was travelling and that you believe someone has stolen your identity. In terms of proof you weren't there, do you have any proof that you were somewhere else? A transaction on a credit or debit card would do the job.

Anyway, don't panic. If it wasn't you travelling, you really don't have anything to worry about.
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
2,650
If you have your timeline activated on Google, you can actually see where you were that day which can help as proof - alongside a couple of bank transactions that day as suggested above, I'm pretty sure it cannot be disputed it wasn't you.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,521
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
What I would say is that it is important to engage with the process - the first thing is to contact the TOC and give them evidence that it wasn't you if you have evidence - that may make them call it off.

I believe there is indeed some form of declaration that can be made, others will no doubt know more.

But if it does go to Court, you really must attend - if you don't the judgement will go against you by default - if it comes to this (it probably won't) ensure you submit the evidence you have that you were not there and it'll get thrown out and the TOC will waste a load of money and look stupid.
 

some bloke

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
1,561
The thing is this was not me. The day after, on the 14th of Feb I would be flying out and as a student with deadlines I was most likely (it’s hard to say for 100%) at home/local cafe revising. I can 100% say I’ve never been to Alexandra Palace station and do not take the Thameslink frequently. Probably once in my life. This was absolutely not me.

The fact that they say they're moving forward doesn't mean they will, if you make a clear case that you're not the person.

They are human and wouldn't want the company to look silly in court, so you could call them in the morning after more input from people here.

Would you like to upload their correspondence and your reply, with identifying details removed? That might help people on here to see what else you might add, or how to explain, to make this go away.

To some extent how you communicate with them, especially over the phone, depends on your preference. Some people would be more confident than others about how they would come across.

Others may comment on whether you need to prepare a lot before calling in case GTR say that further communications have to be in writing. As has been said above, you don't have anything to worry about (barring extraordinary circumstances). People on here can give very valuable support if at first it doesn't go as smoothly as you want.
 
Last edited:

wildcard

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2011
Messages
99
One thing you can do in the meantime is think of anyone you might have met or spoken to by phone on that day - and ask them if they will vouch for you being where you say you were. No need for written statements at present - just their agreement to do so. So flat mates , parents , café owner, corner shop proprietor etc . Did you make any card payments on the day ? Check your mobile phone history - did you make any outgoing phone calls? Did you make a call using a land line ? Did you send any texts on that day? . All of those can be linked to a location . If you say you have such evidence ( to be provided at a later date ) when replying - GTR may well have second thoughts and realise they have the wrong person. I am intrigued by the fact they have your correct address however - is it a student hall of residence ? Sounds like you were set up by a colleague .
 
Last edited:

cuccir

Established Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
3,659
As others have said: engage in the process and be prepared to go to court if you have to, but also don't worry. If it wasn't you, they'll have no evidence that it was you. Remember that it's up to them to prove that it was you, not up to you to prove that it wasn't.

Write a clear, concise letter back stating that it wasn't you. If there's someone you trust who's used to writing official letters - a member of family, a lecturer at uni, or whatever - as them to help. State the following:

* It wasn't you
* At that time you were at xxxxxxx
* That if they proceed to court that you would plead not guilty and that you would bring evidence to support yourself (you don't need to show this evidence the letter, but stating that you have it and ideally a bullet point list of what it is eg testimony from a friend (or friends, family, etc) google timeline, is helpful)

Don't say any more, or any less: keep it simple!

As wildcard says, write down as much as you can about the day, try to produce a timeline for yourself, and try to think what evidence you'll be able to produce about what you did. If that includes testimony from other people, check with them to see if they can help. But remember you don't need piles and piles of evidence: a couple of good bits, alongside your own tesitmony, should be enough.
 

some bloke

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
1,561
Might it also be a good idea to call them, to help show that @Sahra is serious and reasonable (which could result in them giving the case a higher priority)?
 

Fawkes Cat

Established Member
Joined
8 May 2017
Messages
2,943
Just to add a little to the good advice that has already been given, it's not for you to prove that you weren't at Alexandra Palace on 13 February - it's for the railway to prove that you were.

But you can make life easier for yourself by finding evidence that you were somewhere else. The advice to find bank statements, receipts and so on is good, as is the advice to find people who can vouch for where you were. If you cannot remember, is there anything that might prompt your memory? 13 February was the day before St Valentine's day, so possibly you were doing something that day to be ready for the next day. And it was a Wednesday - might that suggest what you might have been doing?

But if you do tell the railway why it can't have been you, make sure you tell the truth. So if (for example) you think you might have been playing basketball at the time that the railway want to know about, tell them - 'On most Wednesdays I play basketball'. Don't overstate it - 'I know I was playing basketball'. Why does this matter? Because if you say certainly that you were playing basketball, but the railway find out that you were doing something else ('you were in the pub because not enough people turned up to play basketball') then they have proved that you are a liar - and their next step is to say that because they know you lied about where you were, then you may also have lied about the train ticket.
 
Last edited:

cuccir

Established Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
3,659
Might it also be a good idea to call them, to help show that @Sahra is serious and reasonable (which could result in them giving the case a higher priority)?

We have no evidence that calling customer services gives cases higher priority. I would keep things in writing so that there is a record of all communication.
 

some bloke

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
1,561
We have no evidence that calling customer services gives cases higher priority.
The context is communication with the prosecutions department rather than customer services. It has been known for someone to sort a case out over the phone:
He advised a letter was issued on 30/11 which clearly I have not received...He advised once I’ve paid the file will be closed & I can rip up the summons

I would keep things in writing so that there is a record of all communication.
In principle, an option is to record the call - obtaining permission might help demonstrate seriousness. Bearing in mind what @Fawkes Cat has said about accuracy, one way might be to write an email along the lines that @cuccir has laid out, then call them, say that this is what you intend to send, and read it.

We're dealing with a human element here - both in terms of @Sahra 's preferences and of the staff member's reaction. An argument for written communication is that it may be more controllable.
 
Last edited:

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,978
I believe this sort of thing is best dealt with in writing, rather than by phone. With written communication there is an audit trail of what's been said by both parties, and little opportunity for misunderstanding. One problem with a phone call is you can inadvertently make things worse by saying something you didn't mean to say.
Unfortunately the wheels of justice turn very slowly.
 

Sahra

Member
Joined
10 Jul 2019
Messages
5
I received a letter two days ago informing me that I have been charged with an offence and that I have 14 days to plead guilty or not guilty. I posted a few weeks ago saying how I received a letter of someone (apparently me) sitting in first class without a valid ticket. This was not me, I was at home. Well despite writing back to them they’ve informed me it is in fact going to court, I think they’ve set the date for early September. I have 14 days to plead guilty or not guilty. Is there anyway to avoid going to court at this point? This is incredibly frustrating and if I do could I sue for loss of earnings or impacting my well being? Any advice is appreciated.

Also some important information:

-they spelt my name wrong on the letters they have been sending.
- how can I prove it? I was at home that day. My google maps timeline wasn’t on, didn’t use my card.
 

Bensonby

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2018
Messages
236
1. You can apply for costs should you win. This probably won’t include loss of earnings per se, but can cover the time you have needed to spend to prepare your defence.

2. It is up to the prosecution to prove it was you: I would expect the person who dealt with “you” to have described “you” in their statement, and attend to give evidence should their evidence not be agreed.

3. Whilst they have to prove you were the person they dealt with it will make your life easier to prove you weren’t in the area. What were you doing? Did you leave the house at all? Can you provide a witness/anything time stamped to demonstrate you were not in the area?

4. You don’t have to give a defence statement in Magistrates Court proceedings, but it can help to identify the issues that are in dispute and give the opportunity for the prosecution to come up with their evidence: if they can’t (because presumably it doesn’t exist) then this can be cited in your defence.

5. I’m not a solicitor. None of the above is legal advice and may not be 100% correct, so I strongly suggest seeking a solicitor.
 

some bloke

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
1,561
Is there anyway to avoid going to court at this point?

Yes - a private prosecutor can drop the matter at any time before it starts in court.

The fact that they say they're moving forward doesn't mean they will, if you make a clear case that you're not the person.

It is even possible, if all else fails, to turn up at the court early, ask staff where the prosecuting lawyer is, and meet them in person. But it should be possible to sort this out much sooner: it may be a case of working out how to improve on what you've already said.

Would you like to upload their correspondence and your reply, with identifying details removed? That might help people on here to see what else you might add, or how to explain, to make this go away.

If you prefer not to upload the correspondence including your replies (without the identifying details), then you could summarise including the offence they allege and the information you gave them. But sometimes in law the exact words matter.

they spelt my name wrong on the letters

It's perhaps not clear why that would be important, especially if you've shown them by replying that you are confident the name is supposed to refer to you.

If at any point you decide you'd like to consult a solicitor, you may be able to get a free initial consultation. Also, you may have legal advice included with a bank account or insurance; and if you're a member of a union you may be able to get advice that way.
 
Last edited:

Sahra

Member
Joined
10 Jul 2019
Messages
5
Yes - a private prosecutor can drop the matter at any time before it starts in court.



It is even possible, if all else fails, to turn up at the court early, ask staff where the prosecuting lawyer is, and meet them in person. But it should be possible to sort this out much sooner: it may be a case of working out how to improve on what you've already said.



If you prefer not to upload the correspondence including your replies (without the identifying details), then you could summarise including the offence they allege and the information you gave them. But sometimes in law the exact words matter.
Hello,

So a week and half or so I received a letter from Govia Thameslink Railway fare evasion manager to inform me I’m being prosecuted for travelling in first class without a valid ticket on the 13th of February of this year. The station was Alexandra Palace. The thing is this was not me. The day after, on the 14th of Feb I would be flying out and as a student with deadlines I was most likely (it’s hard to say for 100%) at home/local cafe revising. I can 100% say I’ve never been to Alexandra Palace station and do not take the Thameslink frequently. Probably once in my life. This was absolutely not me. It’s far from where I live in London. I responded in the time frame and received a follow up letter today which indicates they are moving forward with this case and will be receiving a summons to attend magistrates court. I’m thoroughly confused. This was not me, they have spelt my name wrong, also. How do I prove this? I don’t think I travelled that day. Any advice?

Attached is page 2 of what they sent to me which includes the charge.
 

Attachments

  • DF140A3C-C72B-45AF-A219-DB0B7337B262.jpeg
    DF140A3C-C72B-45AF-A219-DB0B7337B262.jpeg
    634 KB · Views: 264

Fawkes Cat

Established Member
Joined
8 May 2017
Messages
2,943
We're not lawyers, and this is getting a bit serious now, so I think the advice to try to find a solicitor to talk to is good.

From what you have told us, it looks as if you will have difficulty proving that you weren't on a train at Alexandra Palace on 13 February. But as we've said - it's not for you to prove that you weren't there - it's for the railway to prove that you were. None the less, I think there are a couple of things that you can do to help yourself:

1) I see from the form that whoever was caught in the first class carriage had a ticket from Hatfield to Kings Cross. So if you never have any reason to go to Hatfield, make a note of this: explain where you live (they already know this from your address), where you work/study/relax/whatever: this won't prove that you couldn't have been travelling from Hatfield that day, but it would suggest that you were unlikely to be doing so
2) As has been suggested, it may be useful to get the railway to describe the person who gave your name. So think about how you looked in February: have you changed your hairstyle or how you dress substantially since then? If so, it might be worth getting a friend to confirm what you looked like in February (or a photo would be even better).

But I think you need to talk to a solicitor. It doesn't need to be someone who knows about railway law, because this is a matter of identification: it just needs to be a solicitor who knows about magistrates' courts.
 

cuccir

Established Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
3,659
I also think now would be an apporpriate time to telephone the prosecutions team as another way of getting this sorted.
 

Sahra

Member
Joined
10 Jul 2019
Messages
5
I also think now would be an apporpriate time to telephone the prosecutions team as another way of getting this sorted.
I have done but I keep getting their vm and they haven’t called me back.
 

Sahra

Member
Joined
10 Jul 2019
Messages
5
We're not lawyers, and this is getting a bit serious now, so I think the advice to try to find a solicitor to talk to is good.

From what you have told us, it looks as if you will have difficulty proving that you weren't on a train at Alexandra Palace on 13 February. But as we've said - it's not for you to prove that you weren't there - it's for the railway to prove that you were. None the less, I think there are a couple of things that you can do to help yourself:

1) I see from the form that whoever was caught in the first class carriage had a ticket from Hatfield to Kings Cross. So if you never have any reason to go to Hatfield, make a note of this: explain where you live (they already know this from your address), where you work/study/relax/whatever: this won't prove that you couldn't have been travelling from Hatfield that day, but it would suggest that you were unlikely to be doing so
2) As has been suggested, it may be useful to get the railway to describe the person who gave your name. So think about how you looked in February: have you changed your hairstyle or how you dress substantially since then? If so, it might be worth getting a friend to confirm what you looked like in February (or a photo would be even better).

But I think you need to talk to a solicitor. It doesn't need to be someone who knows about railway law, because this is a matter of identification: it just needs to be a solicitor who knows about magistrates' courts.


Where could i speak to a free solicitor?
 

some bloke

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
1,561
I keep getting their vm and they haven’t called me back.

You could email and/or send a real letter as well. It may be easier for people on here to advise what to say or write, if you say more about what you sent earlier.
Where could i speak to a free solicitor?
Solicitors advertise free consultations on their websites - you can search for:

[your area or a postcode] solicitor "free consultation" OR "free initial consultation"
 
Last edited:

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,533
Location
Redcar
Where could i speak to a free solicitor?
The Law Society maintains a register of solicitors. Set your issue as "Crime" and enter your address. Then get on the phone and ring around the local ones to you! Make sure you ask them whether they offer a free initial consultation and go from there.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,533
Location
Redcar
Sure if you want. Though it can get a bit iffy if you refine it too much.
 

ashkeba

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
If a student at university or college and a student union member, go see them quick. They will usually have solicitors available... and I hope they would fancy this if it is as simple as it sounds.
 

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
6,574
Location
Merseyside
Also if you're a member of a trade union you may very well have legal cover. If not if you have a job, even a part time one, you are entitled to join a union. However many unions state you must have been a member 1 to 3 months before you can use their services.
 

BC

Guest
Joined
4 Feb 2019
Messages
104
I think it's important to realise now that you are in a legal process and if you don't engage they are going to find you guilty. Unless you can provide good evidence to the prosecution right now, then you are going to go to court.

You can take the railway out of this - it's purely mis identification. I would make it crystal clear that you reject their allegations but you need to do so in a reasonable manner as this can and will be shown to the court. Whilst it is of course up to them to prove your "guilt" they have sufficient evidence otherwise they wont be taking you to court, and you standing up there and saying "it wasnt me" isn't on the face of it the best evidence...

So.... do you have anything of these...

Google timeline showing you were elsewhere on the location tracking?
Anything on social media showing you photographed elsewhere and making it unlikely that you made this journey? Doesn't have to be at the time, if you were say demonstrably at a party three hours away an hour after the incident thats good enough.
Till receipts - did you buy anything somewhere else - preferably with a card - showing you were not there? If you have none, see if the bank can help.
Freinds and family alibi - can they remember if they were with you at all? This can be quite persuasive....

IF you have anything, take a copy, send it to them with a polite but firm note stating it was not you, you expect this to be dropped immediately. Point out that you do not expect to go to court, if you do it will be defended robustly and you will be pursing them for costs.

Going to court - you are going to need a solicitor if at all possible. Things like Turnbulls rules are important and you need to remind the bench of them, you need a solicitor to argue that just because RPI says it was you doesn't mean it was because of etc etc....
 

Upset76

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2019
Messages
38
From the sounds of it OP was home alone revising and has no evidence of this. No purchases, no google tracking and no witnesses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top