South Pennines Day Ranger via Wakefield Westgate Saturday 17th April

[Skymonster]

National Rail Enquiries showing South Pennines Day Ranger available on Cross Country between Sheffield and Leeds tomorrow - despite ticket restriction saying "Not valid on Cross Country Trains between Wakefield Westgate and Sheffield in either direction." Suspect this might be due to the re-routes around Sheffield tomorrow, but XC are still using Westgate even though the trains go via Swinton / Moorthorpe rather than Meadowhall... The ticket would be a really good option for me, but as the song goes "I see trouble ahead..."

 

[Watershed]

National Rail Enquiries showing South Pennines Day Ranger available on Cross Country between Sheffield and Leeds tomorrow - despite ticket restriction saying "Not valid on Cross Country Trains between Wakefield Westgate and Sheffield in either direction." Suspect this might be due to the re-routes around Sheffield tomorrow, but XC are still using Westgate even though the trains go via Swinton / Moorthorpe rather than Meadowhall... The ticket would be a really good option for me, but as the song goes "I see trouble ahead..."

View attachment 94480

There are no changes to the route north of Sheffield, it's between Sheffield and Chesterfield that the services are diverted (via Barrow Hill).

If you are sold a ticket in conjunction with a particular itinerary, you are permitted to travel on the listed trains notwithstanding any restrictions that would normally apply to the ticket.

 

[nedchester]

A few years ago I was excessed on a South Pennine Day Ranger between Sheffield and Wakefield W as the guard told me it wasn't valid (only valid via Barnsley). I told him I wasn't aware of the route and the ticket was valid at Sheffield and Wakefield W.

Anyway to cut a long story short following a letter of complaint Cross Country informed me that I was correct and refunded the excess fare. You ARE valid.

 

[Iskra]

A few years ago I was excessed on a South Pennine Day Ranger between Sheffield and Wakefield W as the guard told me it wasn't valid (only valid via Barnsley). I told him I wasn't aware of the route and the ticket was valid at Sheffield and Wakefield W.

Anyway to cut a long story short following a letter of complaint Cross Country informed me that I was correct and refunded the excess fare. You ARE valid.

Well, the ticket is valid at Sheffield and Wakefield Westgate, but only when travelling via Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate according to the map.

What line of argument did you take?

 

[nedchester]

Well, the ticket is valid at Sheffield and Wakefield Westgate, but only when travelling via Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate according to the map.

What line of argument did you take?

The ticket is valid at Sheffield and valid at Wakefield Westgate. How is the passenger to know the route the train takes? XC accepted that argument even if the guard didn’t.

https://d11vpqhghel6qd.cloudfront.net/images/maps/2016-09/rangers-rovers/South-Pennines-Day-Ranger_Map_A4.pdf

It reminds me of a train a few years ago booked a pair of 31s which left Stockport and next call Derby. You could use a Coast and Peaks rover on it as the ticket was valid at Stockport and Derby via Stoke. How was the passenger supposed to know it went via the Hope Valley and Dore South Curve!

 

[Iskra]

The ticket is valid at Sheffield and valid at Wakefield Westgate. How is the passenger to know the route the train takes? XC accepted that argument even if the guard didn’t.

https://d11vpqhghel6qd.cloudfront.net/images/maps/2016-09/rangers-rovers/South-Pennines-Day-Ranger_Map_A4.pdf

It reminds me of a train a few years ago booked a pair of 31s which left Stockport and next call Derby. You could use a Coast and Peaks rover on it as the ticket was valid at Stockport and Derby via Stoke. How was the passenger supposed to know it went via the Hope Valley and Dore South Curve!

The Northern service is clearly advertised as via Barnsley.

While you may have got away with it, the guard is correct. I certainly wouldn’t advise people to try it.

 

[roversfan2001]

The Northern service is clearly advertised as via Barnsley.

While you may have got away with it, the guard is correct. I certainly wouldn’t advise people to try it.

But the CrossCountry service isn't advertised as not going via Barnsley - and given it's non-stop between Sheffield and Wakefield, it shouldn't need to be either.

 

[Iskra]

But the CrossCountry service isn't advertised as not going via Barnsley - and given it's non-stop between Sheffield and Wakefield, it shouldn't need to be either.

It does say fast service to Sheffield (sometimes) at Leeds.

I take your point, but still don’t think it wise to advise anyone to travel off the route map for that ranger, which you would expect anyone using such a ticket to consult. It’s only going to attract attention.

 

[nedchester]

It does say fast service to Sheffield (sometimes) at Leeds.

I take your point, but still don’t think it wise to advise anyone to travel off the route map for that ranger, which you would expect anyone using such a ticket to consult. It’s only going to attract attention.

It's not going off route a passenger is not to know what route a train takes between two stations. As far as the passenger is concerned the ticket is valid at Sheffield and it's valid at Wakefield W. The train calls at nowhere else so it 'could' be going via Barnsley.

As I say XC complaints refunded my excess and they also refunded a friend who had the same experience.

 

[Iskra]

It's not going off route a passenger is not to know what route a train takes between two stations. As far as the passenger is concerned the ticket is valid at Sheffield and it's valid at Wakefield W. The train calls at nowhere else so it 'could' be going via Barnsley.

As I say XC complaints refunded my excess and they also refunded a friend who had the same experience.

The route is clearly marked on the ranger map. Choosing a liberal, deliberately ignorant interpretation leaves you open to landing in hot water. The people at XC customer services are not the ultimate authority on this, the map is. Just because you got away with it once, does not make it sound advice on this forum.

 

[roversfan2001]

The route is clearly marked on the ranger map. Choosing a liberal, deliberately ignorant interpretation leaves you open to landing in hot water. The people at XC customer services are not the ultimate authority on this, the map is. Just because you got away with it once, does not make it sound advice on this forum.

The route may well be marked on the map, but the route the train takes is not published at the station - it’s not obvious to any normal passenger that it doesn’t go via Barnsley.

It’s not a ‘deliberately ignorant’ interpretation - the ticket is valid between Sheffield and at Wakefield Westgate and the train goes direct between the two stations. In the absence of any information at the station advising that the train does not go via Barnsley, a passenger should not be expected to know that the route the train takes is not on the map.

This is without even considering that Northern’s Ranger/Rover maps leave a lot to be desired and aren’t known for their accuracy.

 

[robbeech]

If people want to do this there is no reason to stop them. They are welcome to try this argument with XC and may be successful. The fact is, there’s a difference between not realising what route the train is taking and knowing full well that the train is taking a route that isn’t covered.
Remember, as seen on this very forum XC are happy to prosecute people when they have blatantly obviously valid tickets so they’re not necessarily going to find in your favour when you’re on one that is ambiguously valid on a poor technicality.

Also worth remembering that there is a difference between paying up and complaining to get a refund and not paying up in the first place. The latter will likely see a letter from TIL who have zero interest in technicalities, rules, regulation, law, or anything else other than obtaining money from you via any means necessary.

 

[Skymonster]

I boarded the XC train and the problem didn't arise because the ticket was not checked. I did have the details from NRE available to show as evidence but it obviously wasn't needed. Now I'm beginning to feel I might have had a lucky escape!