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South Wales 'Metro' updates

edwin_m

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Thanks. But presumably even if in theory a specific timetable can be delivered without them, the removal of bits of re-doubling will impact on resilience and longer term flexibility should demand patterns change either between the different valleys at one end, between the choice of Central (and south thereof) and Cardiff Bay at the other end or just in general post Covid meaning say on balance only 3 tph can be justified per branch rather than 4tph . The fact that performance risk now all sits effectively in the one vertically integrated organisation I guess means TfW are happy to take that risk, which NR may not have been.
The way the branches converge into the core between Queen Street and Central means that effectively each route has to operate the same interval or a multiple thereof. I believe it's 15min on all routes except Coryton which is 30min. Fixing that gives the advantage that it also fixes where trains will pass on the single line sections and doubling can be targeted accordingly. I assume the operational strategy will be to prioritise trains going towards Cardiff, and if an outbound is late enough that it will won't be able to return on time then it will be turned short, with passengers only having a short time to wait for the next one.
 
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Tumbleweed

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The plot thickens....


Six new train stations between Cardiff and Newport have been recommended by a report looking into issues around the M4 in south Wales.

The South East Wales Transport Commission has published its findings into creating an alternative to the proposed M4 relief road after the plans were finally scrapped in July 2019.

  • Increasing the number of stations between Cardiff and the River Severn from three to nine. Rail stations have been recommended at Newport Road, Cardiff Parkway, Newport West, Newport East, Llanwern and Magor.
  • Creating new rapid bus and commuter cycle corridors across Cardiff and Newport. These would run parallel to the new proposed railway stations which follow the M4.
  • Creating a network of bus and cycle corridors within Newport
  • Making a ticket system across all services using a "cross-city zonal fare system"
  • Creating a cycle hire scheme
  • Co-ordinate bus and rail timetables, with services running every 15 minutes. Train service frequencies should be "at least" four trains per hour wherever reasonable.
  • Making sure transport fares are "affordable for all"
 

anthony263

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They want to terminate extra services from Cardiff at Bridgend and also one mistake they said was to re instated the garw loop at tondu for extra maesteg services. I think they mean the lynfi loop though as the garw loop is on li e towards Brynmenyn not maesteg

Any extra services should be run through to swansea or West wales via all
 

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder that this forum section is for actual rail infrastructure updates please :)

We do have dedicated forum sections where roads, light rail and many other topics can be discussed, as well as a Speculative Ideas section for any suggestions/ideas or other speculative posts related to projects that may or may not happen or which are happening but the details are unconfirmed, or if people simply want to provide their own alternative view on something that is confirmed.

Edit: I have moved some posts here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...g-suggestions-for-alternative-options.211877/ :)
 
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The lines north of Radyr closed yesterday for a 14 day period, meaning there are no trains to Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert. TFW's website says:

With expected low numbers of travellers we’re taking the opportunity to deliver a major piece of infrastructure work. For those making journeys during this quieter period, buses will replace trains for all rail services north of Radyr from Sunday 3 January until Sunday 17 January.

This 14-day window will allow us to progress with our plans and carry out major transformational engineering work for the South Wales Metro.

Does anyone know what's actually being done?
 
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This paragraph is from the TfW press release

"As part of this 14 day engineering work enabling the creation of the next phase of the South Wales Metro, TfW will be undertaking various activities, such as devegetation management, ground investigations, design surveys, utility diversions, cable route installation, upgrading track access points and undertaking essential track maintenance."

Press Release
 

59CosG95

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I'd expect most of the G.I. work to be mainly for OLE foundations (either piles or concrete) and under-track crossings (UTXs) for any new cable routes. There might be an element of the work for embankment/cutting strengthening too.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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Seems like a sensible use of lockdown, even if the rules in Wales are less severe than in England. It's probably a good idea as well to make travel between RCT and Caerdydd a little less conveinient.
 

PHILIPE

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This paragraph is from the TfW press release

"As part of this 14 day engineering work enabling the creation of the next phase of the South Wales Metro, TfW will be undertaking various activities, such as devegetation management, ground investigations, design surveys, utility diversions, cable route installation, upgrading track access points and undertaking essential track maintenance."

Press Release


TFW Twitter says that the closure will be extended for a further week and more details following tomorrow

Hi, buses will now replace trains for all rail services north of Radyr until Sunday 24 January. With passenger numbers significantly reduced at the moment, we're using this period to continue with vital infrastructure work for the Metro. I'm sorry for any inconvenience
 
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Envoy

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I see that the proposed Interchange between buses on the City Line at Waungron Park is further delayed. I am not sure that this is a good idea as people can already switch between buses to from Fairwater/ St.Fagans - which stop underneath the rail station. The City Circle buses operate along nearby Western Avenue.

I also see mentioned the ridiculous idea of running buses from M4 J33 (Cardiff West) to this new Interchange. Can anybody explain to me what route they will use? Do they honestly think that people are going to come off the M4 at J33 to then use a P&R for a slow bus route into Cardiff? (If they were smart, they would come off the M4 at J32 at Coryton, go down the road on the SW side (near Asda) of the motorway and park for free by the river and then just walk over the bridge for a frequent train from Radyr station). Of course, a lot of this is tied up with the Plasdwr & other housing developments in NW Cardiff where Cardiff Council think that the new residents will shift to bus use. The only real way to get these new residents quickly into central Cardiff is to build the new Metro rail line out at least as far as Cregiau. No hope of that any time soon as they have enough on their plate upgrading the present lines ready for the new trains or tram-trains.

A new bus station in the west of Cardiff, due to be finished four years ago, may now not be ready until 2023.

The Western Transport Interchange will be built on the site of a former tip at Waungron Road, next to the A48 Western Avenue and Waun-Gron Park train station.



The bus station will form an important link in the city’s future transport network, including a planned park-and-ride route from Junction 33 of the M4

 

allaction

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Good points by Envoy... you can add the extra traffic coming from the old BBC site in Llandaff, which will be handed to builders at the end of January, during both the demolition and building stage and then when the housing has been built on both sides of the road.

The transportation idea is very poor and needs supplementing as Envoy says.
 

Envoy

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Good points by Envoy... you can add the extra traffic coming from the old BBC site in Llandaff, which will be handed to builders at the end of January, during both the demolition and building stage and then when the housing has been built on both sides of the road.

The transportation idea is very poor and needs supplementing as Envoy says.
It would have been beneficial to have a least a left turn off Llantrisant Road through the BBC site to Llandaff Taff River Bridge. I don't think any provision is being made to have a walk way through the former BBC site (south side) to later provide a through walk/cycle route via the Rookwood Hospital (due to close) to link with Insole Court & Gardens = a major recreation area for Llandaff. (Sorry to be off the main topic).
 

Tomos y Tanc

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It would have been beneficial to have a least a left turn off Llantrisant Road through the BBC site to Llandaff Taff River Bridge. I don't think any provision is being made to have a walk way through the former BBC site (south side) to later provide a through walk/cycle route via the Rookwood Hospital (due to close) to link with Insole Court & Gardens = a major recreation area for Llandaff. (Sorry to be off the main topic).
There is already a public footpath from Llatrisant Road to Fairwater Road more or less along the route you describe. It emerges around a hundred yards from Insole Court. Admittedly it's narrow, unlit and not very pleasant. BBC staff were advised not to use it after dark.
 

MarkyT

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Just a note that an episode of the Gareth Dennis Railnatter series is live on YouTube at the moment and covering South Wales Metro:
 
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There’s a piece here showing what’s going on, doesn’t go into much detail but it includes a few photos. Nice to see some actual progress.

Excavations, ecologists and engineers: behind the scenes work at South Wales Metro

A giant hoover excavating six-metre deep holes, ecologists checking for badger setts, and even a former international rugby star, all feature in the ongoing work on the railways north of Radyr.

For three weeks in January, passengers who normally catch a train on the Methyr, Aberdare or Treherbert lines have to get on a rail replacement bus instead. But riding the bus it’s difficult to see all the work on the railways that form part of a historic upgrade to the network.

The railways across south-east Wales have suffered for decades from a lack of investment, with creaky Pacer trains from the 1980s still running two decades after they were supposed to last. Until now, as Transport for Wales builds the long-awaited South Wales Metro.

After the expert behind the project, Professor Mark Barry of Cardiff University, said the metro is hampered by public disbelief — admitting even his mother doesn’t believe it’s coming — new exclusive photos reveal the wide extent of work taking place behind the scenes.

A big part of the metro project is electrifying the lines. Currently the trains run on diesel, but electrified lines would mean trains emitting much less carbon dioxide, and being more energy efficient and cheaper to run.

Before overhead lines can be put up, to supply electricity to the new trains, a huge steel tube must be put in deep below the ground, to provide a solid foundation for the overhead wires, called ‘piling’. And before that, engineers must check the ground for existing infrastructure.

Near Treorchy, a team of engineers have been excavating holes next to the railway to check for gas or water mains running underground. Most are mapped already, but some aren’t yet. The job means using a ‘Rail Vac’ machine: a giant hoover that sucks up the earth in minutes.

Each hole is about six metres deep, and is checked for any existing pipes. If some are found still in use, then the steel piling can be redesigned to go around them. Others found are ‘dead’: no longer in use and can be cut and removed. The team can dig 40 holes a day.

Behind the Rail Vac, another machine follows to refill the huge holes with soil. The three weeks the railways have been shut, the teams are working on this job around the clock, night and day.

Ahead of the Rail Vac, preparing the area for excavations is the devegetation team. Branches and bushes growing too close to the railway are cut back with strimmers and saws. Ecologists check the trees and plants first for any important wildlife, like badger setts.

One member of the devegetation team working near Treorchy is Emori Katalau, who rugby fans may know as ‘Skylab’. A former player for Exeter Chiefs, Llanelli RFC and the Fiji national rugby team, he now works on the railways, and also coaches Rhigos RFC.

A lot of the workers upgrading these lines are from the Valleys, including boss Jamie Meredith, senior construction and safety assurance manager, from Rhymney. He said a lot of the workers, including himself, have previously worked all over the UK.

He added that many of them welcome the opportunity to work “20 minutes away from home”, as well as seeing the huge investment in the Valleys. In fact, Transport for Wales has a sustainability framework, which means hiring a lot of local Welsh firms and workers.

Closer to Cardiff, a ‘re-railing team’ has been replacing the track just north of Radyr. With a scenic view of the river Taff and Radyr weir, the work involves taking off the old track, putting in new rails, and tempering them to prevent buckling.

One “pretty new” member of this team is Wayne Fisher, who has been working on the railways for just five months. A former support worker in drug and alcohol rehab in south London, he said: “It’s very different to anything I’ve done previously; but I fancied a change.

“There’s a good atmosphere and camaraderie, and we’re all keeping safe and wearing the correct PPE. It’s good to be part of a brilliant organisation doing very important work.”

Despite all the hard work behind the scenes, the coronavirus pandemic has inevitably had an impact. The tram-trains due to be rolled out on the metro lines won’t be ready until 2023, as Covid-19 delays the factories building the new rolling stock.

But when the South Wales Metro is finally finished, passengers should be able to get from the Heads of the Valleys into Cardiff in just 40 minutes — with vastly improved connectivity across the region, hopefully meaning more jobs, investment, and a better standard of living.
 
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AMR

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On the diagram map it lists stations along the line. Would there be more stations around the already predefined stations or is that the finished route. Because it seems more like a rail service then a metro. Especially within Cardiff.
 
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On the diagram map it lists stations along the line. Would there be more stations around the already predefined stations or is that the finished route. Because it seems more like a rail service then a metro. Especially within Cardiff.

The only stations agreed which aren't already open are:

Gabalfa
Crwys Road
Loudoun Square
and the new Trefforsit Estate and Cardiff Bay stations (both being moved a few hundred meters along the track)
 

anthony263

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Little update on the proposed upgrade of the maesteg- Bridgend line.

According to a video posted by the local Welsh government member there are 5 options being looked at for the maesteg branch.

Welsh government seems to be looking at the cheapest option for a loop which is upgrading the lynfi loop at Tondu and time trains to pass just outside tondu Station although many locals say timetabling wise the better option is reopening Llangynwydd Station with its passing loop.

I wonder if the option of converting the branch to light rail with tram trains running 4 times an hour between Maesteg and Bridgend with pencoed etc being served by mainline services from Swansea etc is one of the 5 options being looked at
 

tiptoptaff

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Little update on the proposed upgrade of the maesteg- Bridgend line.

According to a video posted by the local Welsh government member there are 5 options being looked at for the maesteg branch.

Welsh government seems to be looking at the cheapest option for a loop which is upgrading the lynfi loop at Tondu and time trains to pass just outside tondu Station although many locals say timetabling wise the better option is reopening Llangynwydd Station with its passing loop.

I wonder if the option of converting the branch to light rail with tram trains running 4 times an hour between Maesteg and Bridgend with pencoed etc being served by mainline services from Swansea etc is one of the 5 options being looked at
The ideal option is converting the entire line to TCB and having a dynamic loop. Shame that not enough space was left when the bypass and M4 bridges were built for double track south from Sarn. The formation still has the space for it, down to the bypass bridge.

Perhaps a dynamic loop from Sarn to Tondu? Not sure what space on the formation there is between Sarn and Tondu - edit - immediately north of Sarn is a single-track rail-over bridge, that, on further inspection on Google maps, appears to be as wide as the formation gets before Tondu
 

Dr Day

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I wonder if the option of converting the branch to light rail with tram trains running 4 times an hour between Maesteg and Bridgend with pencoed etc being served by mainline services from Swansea etc is one of the 5 options being looked at

What would converting this particular branch to 'light rail' deliver? Still likely to face single line constraints which remove many of the normal benefits of 'line of sight' operation to enhance frequency and thought there were still some scope for freight services. Would have though a half hourly through service to Cardiff would be preferred by most over the 4 tph with interchange but an option nonetheless given aspirations for 4 tph everywhere in SE Wales as the 'metro' concept.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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What would converting this particular branch to 'light rail' deliver? Still likely to face single line constraints which remove many of the normal benefits of 'line of sight' operation to enhance frequency and thought there were still some scope for freight services. Would have though a half hourly through service to Cardiff would be preferred by most over the 4 tph with interchange but an option nonetheless given aspirations for 4 tph everywhere in SE Wales as the 'metro' concept.
I agree that 2 tph to Cardiff would be preferred to some sort of Maesteg - Bridgend shuttle.

I doubt if 4 tph cpuld ever be justified in the Llynfi valley. The population is significantly smaller than along other valley lines. I'm guessing, but I doubt if the populaton of the Llynfi valley itself is much more than 15,000, if that. The real value of the line could come from good bus links from the Ogwr and Garw valleys to Tondu along with decent park and ride options to serve communities such as Sarn, Bryncethin etc.
 

Gwenllian2001

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I agree that 2 tph to Cardiff would be preferred to some sort of Maesteg - Bridgend shuttle.

I doubt if 4 tph cpuld ever be justified in the Llynfi valley. The population is significantly smaller than along other valley lines. I'm guessing, but I doubt if the populaton of the Llynfi valley itself is much more than 15,000, if that. The real value of the line could come from good bus links from the Ogwr and Garw valleys to Tondu along with decent park and ride options to serve communities such as Sarn, Bryncethin etc.
The population of Maesteg alone is 21,000. That doesn't include other places on the line; Tondu, Sarn or Wildmill. The line also attracts passengers from Nantyffyllon and Caerau which had dedicated bus links lost to the 'Austerity' forced onto local government. It's amazing that the 'Magic Money Tree' was there all the time and is now producing millions to pay people to sit at home during the present emergency. Such a pity that it didn't shed a few leaves to save the feeder service when people were travelling regularly.
 

tiptoptaff

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I agree that 2 tph to Cardiff would be preferred to some sort of Maesteg - Bridgend shuttle.

I doubt if 4 tph cpuld ever be justified in the Llynfi valley. The population is significantly smaller than along other valley lines. I'm guessing, but I doubt if the populaton of the Llynfi valley itself is much more than 15,000, if that. The real value of the line could come from good bus links from the Ogwr and Garw valleys to Tondu along with decent park and ride options to serve communities such as Sarn, Bryncethin etc.
Sarn/Bryncethin have a park and ride at Sarn already. Albeit with a very small car park but even in pre-covid times I never once couldn't park. Bridgend, with its insane parking costs, was a struggle after about 0830 though!
 

Envoy

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Rumour has it that the plan for a bus station on the old refuse site at Waungron Park (City Line) have been abandoned. In post 3393 I said that such a bus station was a ridiculous idea as buses already stop underneath Waungron Park station and the City Circle bus stop was just a short walk away on Western Avenue. The idea of diverting the Ely buses into this interchange was also ridiculous as people on that route could change to the City Line at the proposed Victoria Park (Ely Mill) station near the Postal depot. It would also have added to congestion.

I have also heard that Cardiff Council now wish to build a block of flats on the site. This is an appalling idea as this area suffers from high pollution from all the traffic at this major junction. Why I ask does the Welsh Government deem it right to impose 50 mph speed limits on long stretches of the M4 and A470 to reduce air pollution in areas with residences near to highways yet here it appears to be OK, to build new residences right by busy roads? Not only would the new residents have the fumes but also noise pollution from both the road and railway. The same thing is happening on the site west of the postal depot where Cardiff Council are allowing a block of flats to be built on the busy Cowbridge Road (A48) with the main line behind and the City Line above. No humans should be expected to live in such terrible environmental locations. Goodness knows where they will park their cars as time and time again, it has been proven that people will have cars - even if no parking is provided as they will ‘dump' them on nearby streets.

I think that this land at Waungron Station should be turned into a car park for Metro travellers with cycle parking also provided monitored by CCTV. I know it is undesirable to encourage people to drive to stations but the reality is that some people won’t walk more than 5 minutes from home. Neither will many walk to a bus stop, wait for the bus and then travel to the rail station to change to a train and do the whole thing on the return journey. They will however, use their car to/from the station. By having car parking at stations, it will encourage people to use rail for the bulk of their journey rather than drive. They could turn the old refuse depot into a car park today at very little cost and see how things go.

I note that the half hourly bus service from the city centre to St.Fagans stops at Waungron Park. Anybody coming from the central valleys wishing to visit St.Fagans Castle/Museum should change at Radyr to the City Line for Waungron Park and then switch to the bus (run by Easyway). Unfortunately, these buses are not well matched to correspond to the train times at Waungron. Where services are less frequent - in this case bus and train are half hourly - every effort should be made to ensure that reliable changes of mode can be made. It is high time that action is taken to ‘match' services and get the integrated fare system going.
 
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anthony263

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Easyways 32a service to st fagans museum has been cut back thanks to covid. Running 0830-1630 mon-sat no Sunday service expected again till the summer at least.

Only issue is that the sunday driver aka me got laid off now im working for adventure travel sometimes doing thev320 bus service.

I agree about timing buses . The 32a leaves just as cityline train from Radyr pulls in
 

Envoy

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Easyways 32a service to st fagans museum has been cut back thanks to covid. Running 0830-1630 mon-sat no Sunday service expected again till the summer at least.

Only issue is that the sunday driver aka me got laid off now im working for adventure travel sometimes doing thev320 bus service.

I agree about timing buses . The 32a leaves just as cityline train from Radyr pulls in
Well, I don’t envy you driving those buses down the narrow lanes - where cyclists who think they are on the Tour de France go whizzing around blind corners. The Vale of Glamorgan Council produced plans for a new road from the M4 at J34 (Miskin) to the A48 near Bonvilston. The plan shows that this road will block the lane between Peterson-super-Ely and Pendoylan as they don’t want to pay for a bridge.

The point you make about the 32A leaving Waungron for St. Fagans just as the train from Radyr arrives highlights the fact that little or no effort has been put into getting services to ‘match’ at crucial points.
 
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