South Wales 'Metro' updates

[krus_aragon]

I'm intrigued that Cycling Superhighway 2 goes right up Rumney hill toward St Mellons: that's a significant incline on a very busy road, even with a bus lane available for cyclists.* When I lived in the area I experimented with turning right and going along New Road and Greenway Road instead: much quieter.

*Coming down, on the other hand, is much more fun!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Hey there Metro spotters here's some groovy stuff going on in North Wales with smiling Ken, looks like it's the purchase of two minibuses but as the magic word "metro" has been used they must be world class and transformative mini buses

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-43740123

Ministers say the metro plan would make it easier to travel around the region using "high quality public transport" with an "integrated" system including rail, bus, cycling, walking and park and ride facilities.

 

[Del1977]

Kind of embarrassing that the transport minister in Wales is associating himself with a couple of minibuses...

I am so looking forward to the publication of the full plans for the Metro. I hope he has a few minibuses and a Class 143 mocked up in the WAG Bunny livery for a photoshoot somewhere.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Is that railway station actually being built?

The articular refers to is as a proposed railway station, but the local paper and the council leader seem to be talking about it as though its gospel:

http://www.deeside.com/1-8m-boost-to-accelerate-public-transport-schemes-on-deeside/

 

[aylesbury]

The Welsh Government clearly have no real idea a to what is going to happen which is par for the course in everything they seem to do.

 

[Del1977]

Is that railway station actually being built?

The articular refers to is as a proposed railway station, but the local paper and the council leader seem to be talking about it as though its gospel:

http://www.deeside.com/1-8m-boost-to-accelerate-public-transport-schemes-on-deeside/

What line is this station supposed to be on? Is it the Wrexham-> Bidston line, or the line to Chester (or both?)

Both of which are - like my proposed Swansea/Cardiff/Bristol stoppers - in need of some good cross-border, collaborative local authority work to make them work far better for the end users.

 

[gareth950]

Kind of embarrassing that the transport minister in Wales is associating himself with a couple of minibuses...

I am so looking forward to the publication of the full plans for the Metro. I hope he has a few minibuses and a Class 143 mocked up in the WAG Bunny livery for a photoshoot somewhere.

There's no need to wait for full publication of Metro plans to find out what will happen. It's already been decided.
https://www.transportxtra.com/location/wales/ has a few good articles by Rhodri Clark on the 'Metro'. It's a paywall site with a free 2 week trial available.

An article about TfW taking over operation of the new bus station from Cardiff Council ends with this paragraph:
"A significant change is expected within Cardiff Central railway station with the planned conversion of the Core Valley Lines to light rail. Long-standing through services from the Valleys to Barry and Penarth would turn back at Cardiff Central. Also proposed is a light rail spur from the existing branch line between Cardiff Queen Street and Cardiff Bay. The spur would terminate in Cardiff Central or south of the station, providing a direct rail connection from Central to the Bay."
Which is exactly what Cardiff Bus' Baycar bus does already! Trams will be following an identical route and will not be any quicker. But what minister wants, minister gets.

Also, confirming what myself and other posters have been saying for months:
"Other sections of the Valley Lines, notably from Cardiff Central to Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Bridgend via Barry will remain diesel-operated for the foreseeable future."

Another article suggests that TfW think they can light rail electrify the sacred Core Valley lines for £400 million with battery - electric trams. The 'surplus' of the £734m left from the allocated VL electrification funding pot would be used to build on-street running tram lines in central Cardiff and the 'bullett train to the Bay' (specifically to the Assembly) that Plaid Cymru have raised issue with, rather than electrifying to Barry and Penarth to enable cross-city tram-trains to run.
And the Assembly and WAG suits will still use their cars.

https://www.transportxtra.com/publi...or-wales-to-operate-cardiff-s-new-bus-station
https://www.transportxtra.com/publi...s-valley-lines-wiring-will-come-in-under-500m

 

[gareth950]

The Welsh Government clearly have no real idea a to what is going to happen which is par for the course in everything they seem to do.

Or the real world consequences of their politically motivated transport plans, the 'Core' Valley lines concept a prime example.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is that railway station actually being built?

The articular refers to is as a proposed railway station, but the local paper and the council leader seem to be talking about it as though its gospel:

http://www.deeside.com/1-8m-boost-to-accelerate-public-transport-schemes-on-deeside/

This one of literally (hundreds?) of stations people want to see opened across the UK but only hot air and vague waffle emerges from the powers that be about making it happen. Still if we talk about something enough maybe people will believe it has happened?

I have to contend with people who believe theres an "hourly service" on the Cambrian Mainline on a daily basis. It was talked about ad nausea for years but didn't happen we got 4 extra trains a day and still have 2 hour gaps in the timetable (another Welsh Government decision) - yes partial-ism is coming to the Valleys soon.

South Wales Metro? - yes a tram for some valleys and today s 150's for others.

 

[Gareth Marston]

What line is this station supposed to be on? Is it the Wrexham-> Bidston line, or the line to Chester (or both?)

Both of which are - like my proposed Swansea/Cardiff/Bristol stoppers - in need of some good cross-border, collaborative local authority work to make them work far better for the end users.

Wrexham to Bidston line.

Dee Marsh Junction to Chester Northgate was the busiest passenger line (with a straight line over 10000 a week usage on his maps) closed under the Beeching cuts and would have served the Estate well from day one........alas Dr Dickhead thought it was a duplicate line from Chester to Liverpool carrying through traffic.....

 

[gareth950]

Another consideration is will bikes be allowed on the Valleys trams? Taking bikes on the Valleys is popular, especially up or down the Taff trail which the Taff Vale line runs alongside.
Bikes aren't allowed on Metrolink, which is where TfW seem to have got all their inspiration from.

 

[gareth950]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/rct-the-biggest-beneficiary-south-14538229

RCT will be 'the biggest beneficiary' of the south Wales metro says council leader
"We are going to be by far the biggest beneficiaries of the metro," said Rhondda Cynon Taf leader Andrew Morgan.

The leader of a Valleys council has said he is "absolutely confident" the area is seen as a priority for the proposed £734 million metro scheme.

He said: "I am extremely positive about the prospect of the city deal finally coming to fruition.

"We are going to be by far the biggest beneficiaries of the metro."

Plaid Cymru councillor Heledd Fychan asked Cllr Morgan if he shared any concerns at the moment about any potential caveats involved with the metro.

Cllr Morgan said there is still a tendering process underway.

"It wouldn't be right for me to say 100 per cent but I would be amazed if the valleys isn't the priority and is not electrified. I am absolutely confident."

So, RCT is going to be the biggest beneficiary of the Metro. Yes, that's because it's going to be the only beneficiary!

 

[Gareth Marston]

I wonder wonder what Councillors in Bridgend, Vale of Glamorgan, Newport, Blaenau Gwent and Monmouthshire think?

 

[Envoy]

The Consultants report for the proposed new road between M34 J34 (Miskin) and the A48 at Bonvilston - plus an improved A4266 to Barry - states that a Parkway station at Miskin is dependent upon this new road being built. (The single carriageway road is supposed to provide a better link between the M4 and Cardiff Airport/St.Athan). Surely, apart from the village of Pendoylan and possibly Cregiau and Peterston-super-Ely, nobody from the rest of the Vale is going to travel out to Miskin to catch a train? I can however foresee that people in the Llantrisant area would use such a P&R on the mainline - though they do of course already have a station at Pontyclun. People would no doubt also come *off the M4 to use such a station - which would make the bus P&R planned for J33 (Cardiff West) an even more ridiculous proposition. So, I would contend that a new rail station on the mainline at Miskin is not dependent upon the new road being built through the Vale in the vicinity of Pendoylan. * It would be a negative if such people do not use the trains from further west and simply board at Miskin to avoid rail costs. Neither would such a station be of any use to Cardiff Airport when people can already get to Rhoose by train from the mainline at Cardiff & Bridgend.

If the Metro becomes a reality and we end up with a split system with everybody having to change from trams/ trams-trains to ‘normal’ trains in central Cardiff to get between the central valleys and the coast (Barry Island, the Airport/St.Athan), then I can foresee that this will be so much hassle that this proposed new road will become the most popular way to travel on the north-south axis. So, for through cross city journeys, the Metro could in fact encourage additional road journeys.

As concluded in Stage One, the provision of a parkway station could bring substantial sustainable travel benefits at a regional scale. It would however require the provision of a road link in order to facilitate access to the station from the Vale of Glamorgan, as in the two highways options. Moreover, consideration of a parkway station requires technical feasibility work and economic forecasting as part of the Network Rail GRIP process. It is therefore recommended that separate studies are undertaken to consider the feasibility and impacts of a parkway station in the identified corridor.

http://www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk/e...M4-to-A48-Transport-Network-Consultation.aspx

 

[Del1977]

I find it very difficult to imagine that people in *Peterston-super-Ely will be driving west to get on a train to go east to Cardiff. It's just counter-intuitive for people to drive away from where they want to go in order to board a train going where you want to go. Though, if I were to think of alternative rail heads for that settlement, I must confess that I'm struggling.

Of course, the SWML runs right through the village, so a station there would be most logical but probably impossible, and the nearby population is very low and probably doesn't warrant a station.

For other settlements in the Vale, perhaps if the Miskin Parkway was accessible by road from Cowbridge it could attract some passengers from there, but on the current road network, they'd have to drive past Pontyclun station (limited parking) to reach it.


The charm of the Vale is that it's relatively rural. I'm not sure the residents will be that pleased with any of these proposals.

The Miskin station would be for people living nearby, or driving to it from points further west or north west.


*Incidentally, I notice the plans have the settlement called Peterson-super-Ely rather than the correct Peterston-super-Ely. Not a good sign!

 

[Envoy]

I find it very difficult to imagine that people in *Peterston-super-Ely will be driving west to get on a train to go east to Cardiff. It's just counter-intuitive for people to drive away from where they want to go in order to board a train going where you want to go. Though, if I were to think of alternative rail heads for that settlement, I must confess that I'm struggling.

Of course, the SWML runs right through the village, so a station there would be most logical but probably impossible, and the nearby population is very low and probably doesn't warrant a station.

For other settlements in the Vale, perhaps if the Miskin Parkway was accessible by road from Cowbridge it could attract some passengers from there, but on the current road network, they'd have to drive past Pontyclun station (limited parking) to reach it.


The charm of the Vale is that it's relatively rural. I'm not sure the residents will be that pleased with any of these proposals.

The Miskin station would be for people living nearby, or driving to it from points further west or north west.


*Incidentally, I notice the plans have the settlement called Peterson-super-Ely rather than the correct Peterston-super-Ely. Not a good sign!

I agree, it would be odd for the residents of Peterston-super-Ely to drive in the wrong direction to Miskin in order to catch a train to Cardiff. However, the road going east from the village to Cardiff is not an easy drive due to narrowness & bends. I understand that under the Plasdwr plans (new development west of Pentrebane), that the direct road going E from the crossroads N of St.Fagans is to be made into a cycleway with cars being blocked from proceeding. This will then force those that use this route to go via St.Fagans - thus placing yet more traffic into this village. So, with further congestion through Fairwater & Llandaff, it might well prove better for the residents of PSE to go in the wrong direction to a Miskin P&R. However, should the proposed new Metro line ever be built following the former railway line through Fairwater to Cregiau, then this would be a viable railhead for the residents of PSE. To reach this, they would drive E to the crossroads N of St.Fagans, turn left and proceed N almost to Redlava - where they will encounter the new railway. (The old bridge is still in place). The Plasdwr plans do not show a Metro station at this location and no land has been marked out on the plans for a car park - which would also serve the residents of Redlava estate and the road going to Pentyrch. What is planned at this location is a high school. Plans have also indicated that bus gate barriers will be in place at peak times - thus preventing the free flow of cars along Croft-Y-Gennau Road between St.Fagans and the A4119 at Redlava. Plans do show that cars would have to drive through the new development in order to get from St.Fagans crossroads to the A4119. How daft is that? Blocking a viable road that already exists to divert cars on winding roads through new residential areas!

I understand that the residents of the Pendoylan area are split on the new road proposal. Some think it is a dreadful idea to send another road across the Ely Valley when a dual carriageway already cuts across the Ely Valley about 4 miles to the east from J33 to Culverhouse Cross. However, that road is often jammed - partly due to the fact J33 is nothing but an elevated roundabout with traffic lights rather than a free flowing junction with loops. Now the Welsh Government & Cardiff Council plan to make it even worse by building a P&R (bus) plus business park on the north side of it with yet another road joining the gyratory. As a result, some motorists are cutting through the lanes via Pendoylan to get to Barry and the Airport - which also avoids congested Culverhouse Cross and the slow A4050 to Barry - which now has ribbon development. So, by failing to secure a fast dual highway system to the east, problems have been created further west in the Vale - hence the proposal for this new road.

I note that the new road will be single carriageway and as a result, we can expect crashes. Had a proper dual carriageway been built form the Culverhouse Cross area to Barry and the Airport - as was proposed some years ago, then central Cardiff would also have benefited from a fast link to the Airport and Barry.

 

[HH]

There's no need to wait for full publication of Metro plans to find out what will happen. It's already been decided.
https://www.transportxtra.com/location/wales/ has a few good articles by Rhodri Clark on the 'Metro'. It's a paywall site with a free 2 week trial available.

An article about TfW taking over operation of the new bus station from Cardiff Council ends with this paragraph:
"A significant change is expected within Cardiff Central railway station with the planned conversion of the Core Valley Lines to light rail. Long-standing through services from the Valleys to Barry and Penarth would turn back at Cardiff Central. Also proposed is a light rail spur from the existing branch line between Cardiff Queen Street and Cardiff Bay. The spur would terminate in Cardiff Central or south of the station, providing a direct rail connection from Central to the Bay."
Which is exactly what Cardiff Bus' Baycar bus does already! Trams will be following an identical route and will not be any quicker. But what minister wants, minister gets.

Also, confirming what myself and other posters have been saying for months:
"Other sections of the Valley Lines, notably from Cardiff Central to Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Bridgend via Barry will remain diesel-operated for the foreseeable future."

Another article suggests that TfW think they can light rail electrify the sacred Core Valley lines for £400 million with battery - electric trams. The 'surplus' of the £734m left from the allocated VL electrification funding pot would be used to build on-street running tram lines in central Cardiff and the 'bullett train to the Bay' (specifically to the Assembly) that Plaid Cymru have raised issue with, rather than electrifying to Barry and Penarth to enable cross-city tram-trains to run.
And the Assembly and WAG suits will still use their cars.

https://www.transportxtra.com/publi...or-wales-to-operate-cardiff-s-new-bus-station
https://www.transportxtra.com/publi...s-valley-lines-wiring-will-come-in-under-500m

Bidders had some degree of freedom with their proposals, but the size of the budget means electrification will not extend beyond the Core Valley Lines. Maybe there'll be a pleasant surprise or two when the announcement is made.

 

[Dai Corner]

From the South Wales Argus
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/ne...of_rail_services__says_Newport_AM/?ref=twtrec

THERE is "deep frustration" over the lack of rail services between Newport and Ebbw Vale, a city AM has said.

Currently only one train an hour runs on the Ebbw Vale line and there is no direct link between Newport and Ebbw Vale. Although the Welsh Government announced in 2015 the single track would be upgraded to two lines, meaning trains could run in both directions simultaneously, work stopped in December 2016.

And, speaking during First Minister's Questions this week, Newport West AM Jayne Bryant called for action to be taken on the link.


"A regular, reliable service on the Ebbw Vale to Newport rail link would ease congestion on our very busy roads and improve economic prosperity throughout the region," she said.

"There is deep frustration as people have been waiting a long time for this to happen.

"One extra train per hour on the line, running from Ebbw Vale to Newport via Rogerstone and Pye Corner on to Cardiff, would connect the Valleys and two of the largest cities in south east Wales and vice versa."

With the new contract for the Wales and Border franchise, currently held by Arriva Trains Wales, to be awarded in the near future, Ms Bryant asked for the link to form part of the negotiations with a new provider.

Replying, the first minister said: "We do remain committed to increasing frequency of services along the Ebbw Vale line and the options being considered do include services calling at Newport.


"It is important that the Ebbw line is consistent with our Metro aspirations, so we will work with the winning bidder to identify the technical solution that's required to complete the infrastructure that's needed to enhance the number of services along the line."

 

[PHILIPE]

From the South Wales Argus
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/ne...of_rail_services__says_Newport_AM/?ref=twtrec

There is no technical specification required as it has already been provided and the work started. Just needs to pick up tools again and carry on where they downed them.

 

[Dai Corner]

There is no technical specification required as it has already been provided and the work started. Just needs to pick up tools again and carry on where they downed them.

Indeed, and I know Jayne Bryant knows this as I have had correspondence with her previously about the abandoned work.

 

[gareth950]

Bidders had some degree of freedom with their proposals, but the size of the budget means electrification will not extend beyond the Core Valley Lines. Maybe there'll be a pleasant surprise or two when the announcement is made.

Bidders had freedom? Sure. Welsh Govt have have made it crystal clear since 2014/15 that they wanted light rail on the Valley lines. A bidder could have proposed Heavy rail, but they would've had zero chance of winning with it. The public 'consultation' that TfW carried out into the 'Metro' was biased towards this, and had no room for views about the end of cross city heavy rail services and impacts on passengers in the Vale and west of Cardiff.

A pleasant surprise? Like what? Every single article I have read into this process points to a break up of the current Cardiff local, Vale and Valleys network to enable to creation of the politically constructed 'Core Valley lines' to be hived off from everything else. Ebbw Vale is one of the busiest and fastest growing Valley lines, why isn't this deemed to be 'Core', and so is seen as less important?

If the budget won't extend to electrifying the whole network, then the Valleys should be Heavy rail electrified and bi-modes ordered to allow continued through running to Barry, the Vale, Penarth and the western City line, as now. Then if the political will returns in future, HR electrification can be extended to these lines to complete the job. But that's too sensible.

From the South Wales Argus
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/ne...of_rail_services__says_Newport_AM/?ref=twtrec

Carwyn Jones is talking there as if the winning bidder will be in control of the Ebbw Vale line infrastructure, which it will not be. The winning TOC will just be running the trains over it. No 'technical solution' is needed - just instruct Network Rail to pick up where they left off and complete the doubling work.

 

[oglord]

Ebbw Vale is one of the busiest and fastest growing Valley lines, why isn't this deemed to be 'Core', and so is seen as less important?

Because it is not really a "Valley line" that feeds into CQS, but logically, geographically a line that should feed into Newport.

 

[Dai Corner]

Because it is not really a "Valley line" that feeds into CQS, but logically, geographically a line that should feed into Newport.

Yes, geographically speaking the Ebbw flows in to the Usk at Newport but Cardiff is the political economic and cultural capital whether we Newportonians like it or not and that's where people want to go.

The lower part of the Ebbw / Sirhowy Valley (Rogerstone, Risca, Crosskeys, Newbridge) is very much part of the Newport urban area despite mostly being in Caerphilly county and roads and bus services reflect this. Rail services should too, hence the calls for trains to both cities.

 

[Del1977]

Because it is not really a "Valley line" that feeds into CQS, but logically, geographically a line that should feed into Newport.

I agree. Valley Lines services call at Cardiff Queen Street. End of. And for me that includes Barry/Penarth services, even if the WAG doesn't agree.

 

[gareth950]

I agree. Valley Lines services call at Cardiff Queen Street. End of. And for me that includes Barry/Penarth services, even if the WAG doesn't agree.

Well it seems the service pattern that has served the Valleys and Vale of Glamorgan perfectly for over 70 years is about to be ripped up.
Barry, Penarth, Vale of Glamorgan and western City line services have always locally been known as, and have been marketed under the 'Valley lines' banner, both during BR and since privatisation.

https://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Performance/ValleyLines/
Valley Lines covers:

• Treherbert-Cardiff
  
• Aberdare-Barry/Bridgend
  
• Merthyr-Barry Island/Bridgend
  
• Rhymney-Penarth
  
• Radyr-Coryton
  
• Cardiff-Cardiff Bay

 

[Dai Corner]

Well it seems the service pattern that has served the Valleys and Vale of Glamorgan perfectly for over 70 years is about to be ripped up.
Barry, Penarth, Vale of Glamorgan and western City line services have always locally been known as, and have been marketed under the 'Valley lines' banner, both during BR and since privatisation.

https://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Performance/ValleyLines/
Valley Lines covers:

• Treherbert-Cardiff
  
• Aberdare-Barry/Bridgend
  
• Merthyr-Barry Island/Bridgend
  
• Rhymney-Penarth
  
• Radyr-Coryton
  
• Cardiff-Cardiff Bay

Perhaps Cardiff suburban services would have been a better name? It doesn't roll off the tongue so easily though. Ebbw Vale and Maesteg are regarded as part of the Valley Lines for ticketing purposes, at least.

 

[Del1977]

Perhaps Cardiff suburban services would have been a better name? It doesn't roll off the tongue so easily though. Ebbw Vale and Maesteg are regarded as part of the Valley Lines for ticketing purposes, at least.

We've already got a new name: "South Wales Metro"

 

[gareth950]

We've already got a new name: "South Wales Metro"

Which needs to be re-named as it will not cover South Wales and it will not be a Metro.

 

[Dai Corner]

Which needs to be re-named as it will not cover South Wales and it will not be a Metro.

"Rhondda Cynon Taff, Merthyr and bits of Cardiff and Caerphilly Innovative World Class Tram System" ?

 

[gareth950]

"Rhondda Cynon Taff, Merthyr and bits of Cardiff and Caerphilly Innovative World Class Tram System" ?

You need to fit 'transformative' in there somewhere as well.