South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Cardiff123]

The 170s are expected to be helping out around Cardiff in the short term, though, aren't they? I can't remember off-hand whether they're pencilled in for Rhymney, Maesteg, Ebbw or Cheltenham srevices, though.

170s initially for Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham - Maesteg, 769s for Penarth - Rhymney.

 

[uxm]

The 170s are expected to be helping out around Cardiff in the short term, though, aren't they? I can't remember off-hand whether they're pencilled in for Rhymney, Maesteg, Ebbw or Cheltenham srevices, though.

No they're only on the Ebbw Vale/ Maesteg services and after the DEMU Flirts arrive they'll go to the heart of wales.

 

[krus_aragon]

Thanks both. It seems that with so much happening elsewhere in the franchise, the plans for the Cardiff area keep slipping from my mind.

 

[Gareth Marston]

No they're only on the Ebbw Vale/ Maesteg services and after the DEMU Flirts arrive they'll go to the heart of wales.

There's 4 x 2 car and 8 x 3 car 170's coming. The 2 car's are earmarked for Heart of Wales integrated with Shrewsbury to Crewe stoppers. By default though not "officially" confirmed the 3 car units will do Pembroke Dock/Fishguard services. The Milford Havens have only been earmarked 2 car CAF's once the First Class Manchester to Swansea is up and running however all other West Wales services will be 3 car 170's. I can see a 3 car 170 getting into the HOW diagrams on a regular basis due to unit numbers.

All Cambrian trains will go through to BHM INTL - 2 hrly Pwllheli/Aberystwyth portions that join/split @ Machynlleth & 2 hrly Holyhead/ Aberystwyth portions that join/split @ Shrewsbury.

 

[krus_aragon]

All Cambrian trains will go through to BHM INTL - 2 hrly Pwllheli/Aberystwyth portions that join/split @ Machynlleth & 2 hrly Holyhead/ Aberystwyth portions that join/split @ Shrewsbury.

Have you heard from anywhere that they'll all go through to Birmingham? Back in June, Ken Skates was only announicing "regular hourly services on the Cambrian line between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth", which left us speculating (at the time) that in alternate hours they might run to Crewe instead. It'd probably be operationally easier to send them all to Birmingham, though.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Have you heard from anywhere that they'll all go through to Birmingham? Back in June, Ken Skates was only announicing "regular hourly services on the Cambrian line between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth", which left us speculating (at the time) that in alternate hours they might run to Crewe instead. It'd probably be operationally easier to send them all to Birmingham, though.

There was a Stakeholder meeting in Shrewsbury this week - had info off the notes Chair of SARPA took.

 

[krus_aragon]

There was a Stakeholder meeting in Shrewsbury this week - had info off the notes Chair of SARPA took.

Great, thanks.

 

[Gareth Marston]

If and its a big if the medium term plan for the Metro is that by May 19. The 5 x 4 769's should be available, the 5 x 1 ex GWR 153's and the 5 x 230's (these release 4/5 Class 150's from NW England/North Wales). West Wales/HOW apart from through trains to Manchester become 153 worked. No more 153/158/175 going to Maesteg/Ebbw Vale. Valleys/ mainline locals get c20-25 extra carriages. Potential for some extra carriages Cambrian/North Wales Coast for summer.

In December 2019 the ex GA Class 170 (32 x 23m carriages) fleet take over local mainline services between Swansea and Cheltenham, Maesteg/Ebbw Vale. The remaining Pacers (58 x 15m carriages) are withdrawn.

The 3 MK 4 LHCS sets are introduced and the 2 MK 3 LHCS sets withdrawn. 2 X 175 freed up off Holyhead to Cardiff diagram can do peak Manchesters.

 

[krus_aragon]

The 3 MK 4 LHCS sets are introduced and the 2 MK 3 LHCS sets withdrawn. 2 X 175 freed up off Holyhead to Cardiff diagram can do peak Manchesters.

Is that two Mk4 sets replacing the Mk3s like-for-like, and then the third set also in use on Holyhead-Cardiff to release the 175s?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is that two Mk4 sets replacing the Mk3s like-for-like, and then the third set also in use on Holyhead-Cardiff to release the 175s?

Currently 1 x MK 3 set does one out and back run to Cardiff and the second set does N Wales to Manchester all day incl peaks. So about 1.5 full days working.

The plan is for one Mk 4 set to be spare and the other 2 to run 3 out/ 2 back turns Cardiff to Holyhead. So 2 full turns. The 158/175 displaced from Cardiff to Holyhead and by not working Ebbw Vale/Maesteg allow 2 sets to cover for the peak turns to Manchester.

 

[krus_aragon]

Currently 1 x MK 3 set does one out and back run to Cardiff and the second set does N Wales to Manchester all day incl peaks. So about 1.5 full days working.

The plan is for one Mk 4 set to be spare and the other 2 to run 3 out/ 2 back turns Cardiff to Holyhead. So 2 full turns. The 158/175 displaced from Cardiff to Holyhead and by not working Ebbw Vale/Maesteg allow 2 sets to cover for the peak turns to Manchester.

Right, so ditching the loco-hauled runs to Manchester, and putting two sets on the North-South as planned, thus releasing 175s from the Marches to cover the Manchester workings. When I read your earlier post I got the impression that the "freed 175s" for peak Manchesters were additional to the current service level.

P.S. Should that read "3 out/ 3 back turns"?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Right, so ditching the loco-hauled runs to Manchester, and putting two sets on the North-South as planned, thus releasing 175s from the Marches to cover the Manchester workings. When I read your earlier post I got the impression that the "freed 175s" for peak Manchesters were additional to the current service level.

P.S. Should that read "3 out/ 3 back turns"?

Actually balls'd that up each set will do 2 out and one back run and swap over between Canton and Holyhead. Each run is 5 hrs.

There's currently 2 x 158 sets doing Maesteg/Ebbw Vale/ Chletenham each day so they go back in the long distance DMU pool as well.

 

[krus_aragon]

Yes, 3 runs each way between the two units (morning noon and night), as we'd theorised in June.

Will there be any 158s still operating down to Cardiff in a year's time (for convenient visits to Canton etc)? I'm not familiar with the current diagrams.

 

[Envoy]

Being as the 170’s are going to be used on services west of Swansea (except the Milford runs) and also on the Cheltenham to Swansea services, might it not be a good idea for them to run all the way from Cheltenham to Pembroke Dock and Fishguard? (At least one service does at present go from Cheltenham to Fishguard).

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes, 3 runs each way between the two units (morning noon and night), as we'd theorised in June.

Will there be any 158s still operating down to Cardiff in a year's time (for convenient visits to Canton etc)? I'm not familiar with the current diagrams.

Craigybagel says there's a maintenance requirement to get them to cycle to Canton for certain things. I'm sure some early morning /late evening Marches diagrams starting/ending @ Shrewsbury will be the best way to do it.

 

[PHILIPE]

None of the last few threads have any connection with the Metro all. Can we get back on thread, please.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Being as the 170’s are going to be used on services west of Swansea (except the Milford runs) and also on the Cheltenham to Swansea services, might it not be a good idea for them to run all the way from Cheltenham to Pembroke Dock and Fishguard? (At least one service does at present go from Cheltenham to Fishguard).

The Flirts are earmarked for Swansea to Cheltenham/ Maesteg/Ebbw Vale. The 170's are only medium term on SWML stoppers.

 

[Gareth Marston]

None of the last few threads have any connection with the Metro all. Can we get back on thread, please.

Couldn't really show how the rolling stock for the Metro was going to evolve without doing the whole lot!

They are promising 45 new TVM's across South Wales Metro area in 1st year.

 

[PHILIPE]

Couldn't really show how the rolling stock for the Metro was going to evolve without doing the whole lot!

They are promising 45 new TVM's across South Wales Metro area in 1st year.

There is already a thread regarding trains post introduction of the new franchise Gareth, and in reverse, following a spate of posts regarding the Metro on that thread, the Mods chased us off posting anything relating to the Metro there,but to keep to thread. I hope the Mods do not mind me referring to this point but when attempting to refer back to any points it only aggravates the work having to plough through posts off thread.

There is already discussion on this thread:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/keolis-amey-wales-future-rolling-stock.164954

45 new TVMs to be potentially out of order

 

[uxm]

There's 4 x 2 car and 8 x 3 car 170's coming. The 2 car's are earmarked for Heart of Wales integrated with Shrewsbury to Crewe stoppers. By default though not "officially" confirmed the 3 car units will do Pembroke Dock/Fishguard services. The Milford Havens have only been earmarked 2 car CAF's once the First Class Manchester to Swansea is up and running however all other West Wales services will be 3 car 170's. I can see a 3 car 170 getting into the HOW diagrams on a regular basis due to unit numbers.

All Cambrian trains will go through to BHM INTL - 2 hrly Pwllheli/Aberystwyth portions that join/split @ Machynlleth & 2 hrly Holyhead/ Aberystwyth portions that join/split @ Shrewsbury.

No pembroke area is getting civitys

 

[uxm]

Metro and Me event

 

[Gareth Marston]

Metro and Me event

All nice soundbites but the question I will pose time and time again is has Welsh Government let the boat sail waiting on the expiry of ATW's franchise before doing anything about it?

 

[uxm]

All nice soundbites but the question I will pose time and time again is has Welsh Government let the boat sail waiting on the expiry of ATW's franchise before doing anything about it?

They can't do anything as the DFT controlled that franchise.

 

[Cardiff123]

They can't do anything as the DFT controlled that franchise.

Wrong. Welsh Govt could have stumped up the cash to start the PRM mods program much, much earlier than leaving it until the absolute last minute. They were repeatedly warned by Porterbrook as early as 2013 that an immediate plan and action was needed then to avert the kind of chronic short forms and overcrowding that we are seeing now, but Welsh Govt ignored all advice until it was rabbit in the headlights time.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Although in fairness the 769s were supposed to be in service by now which would have alleviated many of the current issues.

 

[PHILIPE]

Although in fairness the 769s were supposed to be in service by now which would have alleviated many of the current issues.

Not so far as the Metro itself is concerned.

 

[Gareth Marston]

They can't do anything as the DFT controlled that franchise.

The Welsh Government had a history of intervening and providing extras above the franchise agreement until 2011, the Holyhead to Cardiff Premier service, acquiring two extra Class 158's in 2006, reopening the Ebbw Vale line in 2008 with European funding. Whilst not spectacular the point is Welsh Government could have chosen to spend its own money/ European money on extra rolling stock /electrification but choose to wait until the franchise expired.

 

[uxm]

Here is the layout of the Taffs Well depot for the South Wales Metro.

 

[Envoy]

Cardiff Council have just given planning permission for the new ‘Transport Interchange’ = office & apartment blocks with 14 bus bays beneath. Of particular concern is the high rise block just west of ‘The Prince of Wales’ on Wood Street. I reckon that winds will be funnelled between that and Southgate House making it horrendous for pedestrians making their way between the shopping areas and the Central Station. (It will also cast a massive shadow over the Royal Hotel and the nearby part of St.Mary Street and therefore make the area cold. So much for the so called ‘St.Mary Street Conservation Area’)! Incredibly, the Planning Officer in charge of this application has just stated that wind testing has not been carried out 'due to a lack of time'. How many years has this been dragging on and he says they did not have time?
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/plans-cardiffs-new-100m-bus-15381145

Council planning officers have recommended the scheme, which will also include 305 apartments, a six-storey office block, a car park and commercial units, should be approved.

The plans include a 14-stand bus station within a concourse area of more than 10,000 sq ft, a cycle hub for 144 bikes and seven retail units at ground floor level.

Buses would access the station from the north via Wood Street, and from the south via Saunders Road. The bus station would be designed to accommodate double decker buses and coaches, but not articulated buses.

 

[Cardiff123]

The plans include a 14-bay bus interchange within a concourse area of more than 10,000 sq ft, 305 flats in a 22-storey tower block in Wood Street and another nine-storey building fronting Marland Street, a six-storey office block, a 249-space private car park and seven ground floor retail units.
The 249-space car park would be mainly for the BBC headquarters next door. No car parking is provided for the apartments.

What a mess this whole scheme has been over the last 10 years. We've gone from a 34 stand bus station, the largest in Wales, perfectly located right in front of Cardiff Central rail station, perfect for onward connections, to a 14 stand bus station, with buses and coaches still dotted around the city centre.

And then we have a 249 space car park being provided just for the BBC! Well we can't expect the suits at the BBC to slum it with the public on the buses or trains can we!
Add to that the 700 space car park planned for the south of Central station on the current Brains Brewery site, that's almost 1000 car parking spaces being provided in the city centre, and Cardiff Council raves about wanting to reduce traffic congestion in the city centre. Do I or ?

I guess this is coming from the same government that wants to spend £1.5bn on 6 miles of motorway south of Newport and another almost £1bn on the final phase of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road dualling, whilst at the same time claiming to be in favour of public transport and active travel. Insane.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/cost-widening-last-section-a465-15373924?

Cost of widening the last section of the A465 will be more than the entire South Wales Metro
The price just for the last 16-mile section is set to be £770m before VAT

The cost of widening the last single-carriageway part of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road is on course to exceed the entire budget for the South Wales Metro upgrade, with the Welsh Government still locked in dispute with a highway contractor.