South Wales Metro

[Gwenllian2001]

Included in today's Welsh Budget statement is £62 million to the proposed South Wales Metro. No other details yet.
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some further information is available at:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/south-wales-metro-system-given-6159032

 

[Tumbleweed]

Lets hope this is the beginning of something substantial and not 'on the cheap' as my cynical side thinks...

 

[anthony263]

About time we get something however i do think we till have a long way to go.

Improvements to some bus service are already starting to be made. First Cymru have increased service X2 Porthcawl - Cardiff to operate every 15 minutes during the peaks and off peak every 15 minutes between Bridgend and Porthcawl.

Of course the service still needs a lot of improvements, far better services from Cardiff would be great as the 07:50 and the evening service is every 2 hours where in my opinion it should be every 30 minutes between Bridgend and Cardiff with a bus every hour continuing to Porthcawl with the final service departing Cardiff at 23:10 arriving into Porthcawl at 00:20 rather than terminating @ Bridgend at 23:57.

The Trawscymru network also need radical improvements such as the proposed T1 and
T3 as well as that proposed Swansea - Merthyr Tydfil - Abergavenny service which will link the tops of the Cardiff Valleys direct rather than passengers having to travel down to Pontypridd or Cardiff before coming back up.

The express service to Cardiff Airport is already up and running although I think it will be a while before it really shows us whether it has been sucessful or not although I would have rathered the X91 being increased to operate every 30 minutes like it used to.

Other public transport improvements I think we will see is the additional stations at St Mellons and Brackla although I am not sure which route the WG will chose if they re-open the line to Beddau. Its a shame the money isnt available to replace the bridge over Newport Road at Cardiff Queen Street as that would really sort out the bottleneck and cut journey times.

A nightbus network around Cardiff would be ideal the 30/X30 Cardiff - Newport service I think could justify an hourly frequency on each route providing a combined 30 minutely frequency between the two cities. A regular bus service to Penarth would be well used seing as it goes along Penarth road and Grangetown with major employers along the route such as the Royal Mail


I have suggested that Bridgend council copy what Rhondda cynon taff council have done in Pontypridd and have a town Centre circular bus service which will link Bridgend bus and railway stations.

As for Sewta's suggestion of a rapid transit bus service linking Bridgend with Pontypridd/Blackwood via Llantrisant,First Cymru & Stagecoach tried this but have not been sucessful at countering the competition from Edwards coaches service 100E which runs every 10 minutes.

Something we havent picked up on is the major rebuilding of Port Talbot Parkway station which is due to start shortly

 

[Gareth Marston]

No point speculating until we get some actual detail, I suspect with Wrexham re double back on this money will be for Ebbw Vale town extension.

 

[merlodlliw]

No point speculating until we get some actual detail, I suspect with Wrexham re double back on this money will be for Ebbw Vale town extension.

The Rhoose rail improvement appears top priority along with the Ebbw extension according to the trade, I will want to see details.
Interesting note, both Libs & Plaid one of which will have to sign off the budget due to Labour being hung, both of these parties so their AMs tell me would have insisted on the Wrexham redouble going ahead.
This info came from the North Wales listed AMs Aled Roberts lib and LLyr Gruffyd Plaid,

 

[Tumbleweed]

There so many priorities - the Ebbw Vale one has already been announced? The Wrexham one is probably separate as the £62 million is for SE Wales (with our apologies to our friends in the north). Anyone know when the details are going to be announced?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Is there a more readable version of the map from that article anywhere?

 

[anthony263]

I have also looked for that map but I can only find the version which is really hard to read.

I wish Sewta would publish a larger verion on thir website

 

[WelshBluebird]

Any idea what the green line going across the top of the valleys is? Treherbert (and thus the top of the Rhondda valley) is cut off from it, so will be disappointed if that is any new development as we really could do with some decent cross valleys transportation.

 

[krus_aragon]

I have also looked for that map but I can only find the version which is really hard to read.

I wish Sewta would publish a larger verion on thir website

They did, a while back: here. It's printed slightly bigger on page 84 of the report, but not quite at the original size.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There so many priorities - the Ebbw Vale one has already been announced? The Wrexham one is probably separate as the £62 million is for SE Wales (with our apologies to our friends in the north). Anyone know when the details are going to be announced?

The A465 dualling up the Clydach gorge was already announced and funded but it got £40 million - clearly its over budget

 

[HowardGWR]

The A465 dualling up the Clydach gorge was already announced and funded but it got £40 million - clearly its over budget

This road built over an old railway, goes from nowhere to nowhere. As a railway it only existed to get the coal out of Wales without using the GW, AIUI.

As there is no coal anymore -what's it for? If I've got this wrong please put me right.

 

[Gareth Marston]

This road built over an old railway, goes from nowhere to nowhere. As a railway it only existed to get the coal out of Wales without using the GW, AIUI.

As there is no coal anymore -what's it for? If I've got this wrong please put me right.

Go back to the 1970's and it was conceived as a link between the heavy industries of South Wales Valleys and the heavy industries of the Midlands. i.e it was suppose to carry freight that now doesn't exist. It was a Welsh office project that was still unfinished at devolution. Today its justified on the grounds of road safety and improving links to deprived areas. Though I did hear a rumor that John Redwood had threatened to come back to Wales if it wasn't built!
The Chair of the Bevan trust is on record as saying the bus between Merthyr and Abergavenny is so slow due to delays on the road and dual carriageway is needed t improve pubic transport. Having used the X4 bus I found it slow as it kept coming off the A465 road and dropping down into the Heads of the Valleys towns and then going back up to the road and repeating the procedure every couple of miles.

 

[Tumbleweed]

The bus from Merthyr to Abergavenny is so slow mainly due to all the different towns it serves, you're quite right. Don't know how dualling will solve things, except for drawing even more business out of these towns and making car use more attractive...strange really, but thats another argument.

 

[HowardGWR]

The bus from Merthyr to Abergavenny is so slow mainly due to all the different towns it serves, you're quite right. Don't know how dualling will solve things, except for drawing even more business out of these towns and making car use more attractive...strange really, but thats another argument.

Strikes me that you need to get together and form a decent campaign group. You know the saying
'evil succeeds when good men keep silent'. The idea that this would come about as a result of the influence of J Redwood, evil personified, could get me involved if I were Welsh. Aren't your Welsh ams interested in the environment or are they all thick?

 

[anthony263]

There was a proposal forward by Stagecoach back in 2004 to run a similar service to the X4 along the A465 but it would run from Swansea to Abergavenny via Merthyr Tydfil every 30 minutes.

The main difference is that it would stick mostly to the A465 rather than coming off to serve every town. Like at Hirwaun services would have connected with local bus services

I think the only stops between Hirwaun and Abergavenny planed were:

Merthyr Tydfil Bus Stn
Dowlais
Tredegar
Brynmawr Bus Stn
Nevill Hall Hospital
Abergavenny bus station

The journey from Merthyr to Abergavenny was timed to take 1 hour 15 minutes compared to 90 minutes on the X4

Rhondda cynon taff council were keen on this idea so I wouldnt be too surprised if this is the line shown on the map from Hirwaun to Abergavenny. There is a lot of traffic from Merthyr into Swansea were a good number in the opposite direction so a regular coach link like the X4 used to be before these low floor mans's arrived with the vehicles equipped with wi-fi would be popular especially with competitive journey times.

Sewta's idea for increasing the Blaengarw -Bridgend bus services to operate every 15 minutes I disagree with as the valley cannot justify a service frequency that high. A bus every 30 minutes throughout the day is enough I say. Nantymoel on the other hand could justify a 15 minutely service however smaller buses would be used until demand justifys a high frequency using larger buses.

My own local bus service has only started operating every 15 minutes since 2006 when Bridgend Bus/Shamrock pulled out and the hourly sunday service was only started back in 2007. Before the the 1st bus from Porthcawl was at 13:20 and from Bridgend at 14:05 with a frequency of 1 bus every 90 minutes.

The X2 Porthcawl - Cardiff has only in been increased to operate every 15 minutes since August but passenger numbers have responded well. All that is left is to improve the morning services from Cardiff with the 1st bus noot arriving into Bridgend til 08:54 where it should be 07:54 . The evening services should be hourly throughout until the last bus from Cardiff at 23:10. Sunday buses starting before 09:45 would be good as well

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Go back to the 1970's and it was conceived as a link between the heavy industries of South Wales Valleys and the heavy industries of the Midlands. i.e it was suppose to carry freight that now doesn't exist.

The Chair of the Bevan trust is on record as saying the bus between Merthyr and Abergavenny is so slow due to delays on the road and dual carriageway is needed t improve pubic transport. Having used the X4 bus I found it slow as it kept coming off the A465 road and dropping down into the Heads of the Valleys towns and then going back up to the road and repeating the procedure every couple of miles.

The road actually goes back to the early 1960s and, in my opinion, was not necessary. It was, and is, a 'political' road designed to soothe the natives because it looks like 'something is being done'. It has never justified its cost because, as has been pointed out, there is nowhere near enough traffic on offer. It has a grim history of death and destruction, not because of the lack of dualling, but because of its exposed location where sections can often be covered in low cloud and freezing fog, together with the temptation to drive at excessive speed on, what often, appears to be an empty road.

Your comments on the bus service are spot on. The dual carriageway will do nothing to improve it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The road actually goes back to the early 1960s and, in my opinion, was not necessary. It was, and is, a 'political' road designed to soothe the natives because it looks like 'something is being done'. It has never justified its cost because, as has been pointed out, there is nowhere near enough traffic on offer. It has a grim history of death and destruction, not because of the lack of dualling, but because of its exposed location where sections can often be covered in low cloud and freezing fog, together with the temptation to drive at excessive speed on, what often, appears to be an empty road.

Your comments on the bus service are spot on. The dual carriageway will do nothing to improve it.

I sometimes drive Hirwuan to Swansea Enterprise Park on the western end its deserted, more traffic from Welshpool to Newtown. The promise of economic development with it I don't buy , look at the A470 up to Merthyr or you can't get to Pontypool and Cwmbran by dual as well, or Angelsey. Wales is a case study in how road schemes have not brought economic development.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Chair of the Bevan trust is on record as saying the bus between Merthyr and Abergavenny is so slow due to delays on the road and dual carriageway is needed to improve pubic transport. Having used the X4 bus I found it slow as it kept coming off the A465 road and dropping down into the Heads of the Valleys towns and then going back up to the road and repeating the procedure every couple of miles.

Surely the X4 has a main purpose of serving those comunities to provide social links and the need for a fast service that runs from Merthyr to Abergavenny that omits many of the X4 connections is a totally different proposition that serves a different need.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Strikes me that you need to get together and form a decent campaign group. You know the saying
'evil succeeds when good men keep silent'. The idea that this would come about as a result of the influence of J Redwood, evil personified, could get me involved if I were Welsh. Aren't your Welsh ams interested in the environment or are they all thick?

My cynical side says the AM's are not the most talented bunch no, but anyway the problem lies with planning - roads always take precedence no matter what. They spent £300million on the Church Village bypass, which is badly congested just 3 years after opening at both its extremes. Think of how much public transport infrastructure they could have bought with that.

 

[anthony263]

A light rail link from Beddau down to Cardiff I think would take a good number of those cars off the church village by-pass.

Of course The only this I disagree with the Cardiff metro/crossrail is the use of tram-trains especially since I can see the service being very well used so much so that 4tph may not be enough.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Surely the X4 has a main purpose of serving those comunities to provide social links and the need for a fast service that runs from Merthyr to Abergavenny that omits many of the X4 connections is a totally different proposition that serves a different need.

Given the began trusts offices are a 5 minute walk from methyr bus station....you,d think they'd know.....

 

[Gwenllian2001]

It is to be hoped that the railway through the Neath Valley is protected if, as seems likely, the Unity Mine at Cwmgwrach closes. As far as I am aware, the mine is its only source of traffic. The line has the potential to become a useful passenger route with the possibility of being extended back to Hirwaun.

 

[Solaris]

This is perhaps more relevant re metro....
http://www.metroconsortium.co.uk/

 

[anthony263]

It is to be hoped that the railway through the Neath Valley is protected if, as seems likely, the Unity Mine at Cwmgwrach closes. As far as I am aware, the mine is its only source of traffic. The line has the potential to become a useful passenger route with the possibility of being extended back to Hirwaun.

The only downside is getting the services into Swansea without reversal.

You could run them down to Swansea docks but then you are a good mile from the city centre. If you had the money you could always tunnel under swansea a bit like the Great Northern does into Moorgate

 

[merlodlliw]

Strikes me that you need to get together and form a decent campaign group. You know the saying
'evil succeeds when good men keep silent'. The idea that this would come about as a result of the influence of J Redwood, evil personified, could get me involved if I were Welsh. Aren't your Welsh ams interested in the environment or are they all thick?

Campaign groups do work,well they do in North East Wales, as for AMs we have some on the ball AMs up here, first we get the listed ones to get together(Con/Lib/Plaid) who will ask questions,then we embarrass the predominant consituency Labour AMs by constituents questions they then get hot under the collar and join up (unofficially) with the other parties as one pressure group, it works. We have used this technique many times,last success was the Wrexham redouble where two local AM Ministers felt stuffed by being told not to answer any questions by an arrogant Ministerial colleague,even the First Ministers scrutiny Committee made up of all parties told Carwyn Jones to sort out this arrogance and get on with the redouble, many of you will have seen the letter to the First Minister from his Committee after the Rhos Wrexham meeting in July.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Strikes me that you need to get together and form a decent campaign group. You know the saying
'evil succeeds when good men keep silent'. The idea that this would come about as a result of the influence of J Redwood, evil personified, could get me involved if I were Welsh. Aren't your Welsh ams interested in the environment or are they all thick?

Yeah, AMs don't seem interested in the environment, at least when it comes to transport. Same can be said of much of the lot in Westminster.

I once sent an e-mail to my AM complaining about his policy of trying to dual the A40 into Pembrokeshire (I think I said the money, or some of it, should be used to fix existing roads). This was part of his response:

I note your comments regarding the Robeston Wathen by-pass investment. At a time when significant amounts of public funding continues to be invested in road infrastructure projects such as the the Heads of the Valleys road, it is my responsibility as the Assembly Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire to lobby for similar investment in the area that I represent. The dualling of the A40 continues to be an issue that is raised regularly with me by constituents.

It is to be hoped that the railway through the Neath Valley is protected if, as seems likely, the Unity Mine at Cwmgwrach closes. As far as I am aware, the mine is its only source of traffic. The line has the potential to become a useful passenger route with the possibility of being extended back to Hirwaun.

The only downside is getting the services into Swansea without reversal.

You could run them down to Swansea docks but then you are a good mile from the city centre. If you had the money you could always tunnel under swansea a bit like the Great Northern does into Moorgate

Swanlink: Metrolink for Swansea. Get some low-floor, dual-voltage, tram-trains and run 'em from Aberdare/Hirwaun/Glyn-Neath (not sure where to put the break from heavy rail) down to Swansea Docks then take to street-running along the roads to the bus and rail stations. Then extend through to Mumbles and Gowerton, with some Gowerton services sharing heavy-rail route to Llanelli then back on the streets to reach Llanelli bus station, Parc-Y-Scarlets, Bynea and Llangennech (or however that's spelt). The latter means those two HOWL stations could close, enabling future diversion of HOWL trains onto the Swansea District Line then via a rebuilt line to somewhere near Gowerton.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Strong rumours from credible sources are saying that the Welsh Regional Consortia are not to be with us much longer, certainly not in current form.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Strong rumours from credible sources are saying that the Welsh Regional Consortia are not to be with us much longer, certainly not in current form.

For what reason are they under threat? Seems a bit strange to be abolishing them since (I think) they have just had the BSOG replacement (RTSG?) devolved to them.

What are they likely to be replaced with? Local authorities (since it sounds like they may be merged anyway)?

 

[merlodlliw]

For what reason are they under threat? Seems a bit strange to be abolishing them since (I think) they have just had the BSOG replacement (RTSG?) devolved to them.

What are they likely to be replaced with? Local authorities (since it sounds like they may be merged anyway)?

The Minister Edwina Hart made a scathing attack on them on Tuesday in plenary, below is from WG website

Mrs Hart said the message she has had from businesses and local authorities is that the Regional Transport Consortia have not been as effective at driving delivery at regional level as was hoped.

In recognition of this the Minister has asked her officials to examine the options for how regional delivery of transport can be improved.
The Minister concluded:

I was told by an AM that Taith up to yesterday, as made no attempt to contact anyone over the Arriva bus route cuts,that is Bus Companies/AMs or anyone,
Taith as always been a closed shop for users, run by two Cllrs from each of the six Counties,Councillors some of whom never use a bus or hardly a train.In my opinion they require sorting.

Gwynedd is the only County Council in Wales not to produce a County wide bus timetable, yet it as two Councillors on Taith who can discuss rail/bus travel in Wrexham.