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South Western Railway - a mixed start to life as a TOC?

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Schweir

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SWR has now been operating for around 9 months. They seem to have had a mixed start to their life as a TOC, with several of the positives and negatives I have found listed below. I can only speak for the long distance lines (e.g London to Weymouth) as I do not travel on the suburban routes. I still think there are a lot of areas which still need to be worked on, with the impending overhaul of the timetable in December likely to cause new major problems, especially with respect to connections. Interested to hear everyone's opinions to how you think SWR have fared, and any improvements you think they can make.

Positives:
- Train cleanliness has generally been maintained well
- After my initial doubts, the train liveries look reasonable.
- Seem to be more ticket checks

Negatives:
- Far fewer deals on tickets (i.e £20 day returns) & advance tickets seem to be more expensive.
- A lot of services consistently seem to be 10-14 minutes late. SWR seem to make sure as a priority that trains do not reach the 15 minute delayed mark, to avoid compensation claims.
- Increased stop skipping, and pining of services (e.g terminating at Dorchester/ Wareham instead of Weymouth)
 
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Harlequin

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Agree with you on all positives and negatives. Delays seem to be far more frequent and, as you say, almost routinely between the 10-14 minute mark. In their defence they've had a terrible run of luck with problems which on the face of it are the fault of Network Rail.
 

yorksrob

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It will be interesting to see how value for money has fared (no pun intended) when I come to do my jaunt to the South West later in the year.
 

swt_passenger

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Negatives:
- Far fewer deals on tickets (i.e £20 day returns) & advance tickets seem to be more expensive.

Why do you expect time limited special deals to keep being repeated? Maybe they just didn't have the desired positive effect on revenue. IIRC for most of SWT's tenure there was a huge area of their network with no advance fares available whatsoever...
 

The Ham

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Why do you expect time limited special deals to keep being repeated? Maybe they just didn't have the desired positive effect on revenue. IIRC for most of SWT's tenure there was a huge area of their network with no advance fares available whatsoever...

I've only really found advanced ticket prices on the WofE services (there's probably others but none that I've found) the reason is that their trains are all fairly busy and so there's not much need to entice people to use them.
 

theironroad

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SWR has now been operating for around 9 months. They seem to have had a mixed start to their life as a TOC, with several of the positives and negatives I have found listed below. I can only speak for the long distance lines (e.g London to Weymouth) as I do not travel on the suburban routes. I still think there are a lot of areas which still need to be worked on, with the impending overhaul of the timetable in December likely to cause new major problems, especially with respect to connections. Interested to hear everyone's opinions to how you think SWR have fared, and any improvements you think they can make.

Positives:
- Train cleanliness has generally been maintained well
- After my initial doubts, the train liveries look reasonable.
- Seem to be more ticket checks

Negatives:
- Far fewer deals on tickets (i.e £20 day returns) & advance tickets seem to be more expensive.
- A lot of services consistently seem to be 10-14 minutes late. SWR seem to make sure as a priority that trains do not reach the 15 minute delayed mark, to avoid compensation claims.
- Increased stop skipping, and pining of services (e.g terminating at Dorchester/ Wareham instead of Weymouth)

Turning services around at Dorchester has being going on for years when they are so delayed that the next journey from Weymouth will start later and if there have been more recently, it's only because there have been more significant delays to trains, not a change in policy.

You seem to be suggesting that swr are deliberately trying to avoid delay repay claims. Can you please provide a comparison to support you claim that more trains arrive 13-14 mins late than in s similar period under swt?
 

Bookd

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Although not a regular commuter when I do use SWR it is on the Windsor lines which seem to be as good as ever - possibly fewer engineering works and less tinkering with timetables.
 

7031

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I'm surprised you mention more frequent ticket checks - honestly I've found them to be a lot less prevalent than they were under SWT. Granted I'm sure it depends on what routes you're traveling on - for example I reckon anything particularly London centric isn't targeted as much due to Oyster use etc.
 

Robsignals

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Arguably Delay Repay is meant to incentivise all concerned to minimise delays but how can impending delay be transferred between trains as implied?
 

moley

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The start might not be about to get any better. A guard was explaining today that it looks like the 'big bang' timetable change in December is off the table. They reckon that the DfT and National Rail want it put back to May 2019 so that a) the Desiro refurbishment is finished, b) the Class 442 reintroduction is complete, c) to ease pressure on the timetabling program so that engineering timetables are back to T-13 and d) to fully test whatever timetable is introduced.

It may just be crew talk based on recent GTR and Northern failings to mention just two, but the logic seems sensible. December 2018 would allow a few peak extras, maybe based on more services moving to platforms 20-24 and associated platforming, then May 2019 would allow a further capacity increase and retiming. It may even allow for a proper round 2 consultation, given that sources suggest final timetables will look nothing like the consultation copies.

It all seems sensible. Only issue I see is that SWR and DfT have a signed franchise agreement - unless they choose to renegotiate, which some are suggesting may happen.
 

infobleep

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The start might not be about to get any better. A guard was explaining today that it looks like the 'big bang' timetable change in December is off the table. They reckon that the DfT and National Rail want it put back to May 2019 so that a) the Desiro refurbishment is finished, b) the Class 442 reintroduction is complete, c) to ease pressure on the timetabling program so that engineering timetables are back to T-13 and d) to fully test whatever timetable is introduced.

It may just be crew talk based on recent GTR and Northern failings to mention just two, but the logic seems sensible. December 2018 would allow a few peak extras, maybe based on more services moving to platforms 20-24 and associated platforming, then May 2019 would allow a further capacity increase and retiming. It may even allow for a proper round 2 consultation, given that sources suggest final timetables will look nothing like the consultation copies.

It all seems sensible. Only issue I see is that SWR and DfT have a signed franchise agreement - unless they choose to renegotiate, which some are suggesting may happen.
Perhaps they could extend the Effingham Junction terminating and start trains in the December timetable, to cover the gaps left by the old Southern Guildford services now departing at different times and being operated by Thamkeslink.

Now days it seems if their isn't a track or singling fault of some issue or other, your lucky.

I could give examples but as has been said, one could be going round in circles. Some days that put up general notes about the issues. Other days they just stick it up against each affected train and under the general service indecators on National Rail Enquires they say their is a good service. I don't consider delays of up to 19 minutes a good service. Of course compared to Govia Thamealink Railway..... Of course again going round in circles and delay information has rarely been constant in when or how it's issued.

Actually it's now made Journey Check so maybe it's on its way to being on National Rail Enquires.

When they do the review stretching back to 2010, will they consult with passengers for their opinions.

Also anyone know if the talks at ACAS produced any outcome or are they on going?
 

infobleep

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Its interesting to compare SWR and GTR. GTR cannot run new services due to driver training issues / timetable issues oand SWR will probably struggle to run additional services due to infrastructure issues but won't have staff issues or the same timetable issues, given the timetsble is not majorly changing

Any delay to the timetable being implemented is selfishly welcomed by me and orhers wanting to reach Clapahm Junction ,as it means more trains stopping at Clapahm Junction in the morning and evening peak and more trains from Guildford to Woking in the morning peak.
 

87015

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The start might not be about to get any better. A guard was explaining today that it looks like the 'big bang' timetable change in December is off the table. They reckon that the DfT and National Rail want it put back to May 2019 so that a) the Desiro refurbishment is finished, b) the Class 442 reintroduction is complete, c) to ease pressure on the timetabling program so that engineering timetables are back to T-13 and d) to fully test whatever timetable is introduced.

It may just be crew talk based on recent GTR and Northern failings to mention just two, but the logic seems sensible. December 2018 would allow a few peak extras, maybe based on more services moving to platforms 20-24 and associated platforming, then May 2019 would allow a further capacity increase and retiming. It may even allow for a proper round 2 consultation, given that sources suggest final timetables will look nothing like the consultation copies.

It all seems sensible. Only issue I see is that SWR and DfT have a signed franchise agreement - unless they choose to renegotiate, which some are suggesting may happen.
Don't SWR want/need to re-work December from what they bid after the consultation came out so against much of the bid teams timetable? That would be a rather different story than more kicking of NR train planning...
 
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swt_passenger

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Perhaps they could extend the Effingham Junction terminating and start trains in the December timetable, to cover the gaps left by the old Southern Guildford services now departing at different times and being operated by Thamkeslink.
What are you on about here with “operated by Thameslink”? Hasn't this been explained as an error in the data?
 

387star

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RMT has instructed members not to book on duty from 00:01 on Thursday 21st June 2018 until 23:59 on Saturday 23rd June 2018.
 

monxton

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Why do you expect time limited special deals to keep being repeated? Maybe they just didn't have the desired positive effect on revenue. IIRC for most of SWT's tenure there was a huge area of their network with no advance fares available whatsoever...
Yes, advance fares were never available for destinations before Brockenhurst under SWT. This is no longer the case under SWR. However Megatrain tickets were available to Southampton, and are no longer offered on this line.
 
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RMT has instructed members not to book on duty from 00:01 on Thursday 21st June 2018 until 23:59 on Saturday 23rd June 2018.

Does anyone even known what SWRs DOO plan actually entails? I have never actually seen the proposal and the company seems to be keeping their cards pretty close to their chest.
 

pompeyfan

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Does anyone even known what SWRs DOO plan actually entails? I have never actually seen the proposal and the company seems to be keeping their cards pretty close to their chest.

SWR’s line is they want to roster a 2nd person on every 701 train for the duration of the franchise and are ‘open for discussion’ on the best operation of these trains and the competency of the 2nd crew. Grayling has promised all current guards will have employment into the next franchise (but I believe that is/was subject to ceasing industrial dispute) (note also that it merely states employment, no reference to T&C’s, job titles, roles)
 

swt_passenger

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Yes, advance fares were never available for destinations before Brockenhurst under SWT. This is no longer the case under SWR. However Megatrain tickets were available to Southampton, and are no longer offered on this line.
Towards the end of the SWT franchise, Advances were added for some stations nearer London.

However, going back to the original point made about the lack of 'deals' in post #1, it seems some have now started in time for the summer period, so maybe it was just a case of waiting patiently after all...

Meanwhile, I predict that this thread will now descend into yet another unnecessary discussion of DOO policy.
 
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387star

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Does anyone even known what SWRs DOO plan actually entails? I have never actually seen the proposal and the company seems to be keeping their cards pretty close to their chest.

Most depots will be unaffected as there are no plans to fit Cameras to the legacy 444/450/442/158/159 units

The dispute is centered on the metro side of the business where new trains will replace 455/456/458 and 707 units
 

dctraindriver

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Most depots will be unaffected as there are no plans to fit Cameras to the legacy 444/450/442/158/159 units

The dispute is centered on the metro side of the business where new trains will replace 455/456/458 and 707 units

I think there are 13 depots, I think 8 depots will be signing the 701 so it may well be the minority of depots unaffected. Also the depots signing it employ a lot of guards.......
 

pompeyfan

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13? That seems a bit high unless you’re counting Non commercial & commercial.

Weymouth
Bournemouth
Fratton
Salisbury
Basingstoke
Guildford
Woking
Wimbledon
Waterloo
Staines
Strawberry hill.
 

pompeyfan

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Yep, 13 depots.

Can you tell me where you got 13 from please? I know it’s trivial in the grand scheme of things related to 701 but I count 11, or 15 if you’re splitting Waterloo, Staines, Guildford and Woking into two.
 

pompeyfan

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It appears I forgot Farnham as a guards depot, i’d Also forgotten about Northam but where that’s a Driver only depot it doesn’t really count, that would get you up to 13.

As I say, trivial semantics.
 

bb21

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Agreed. It is getting rather off-topic.

Can we keep discussion about the industrial dispute on the relevant thread please. There is already one for it on SWR.
 

pompeyfan

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Agreed. It is getting rather off-topic.

Can we keep discussion about the industrial dispute on the relevant thread please. There is already one for it on SWR.

I believe the dedicated SWR DOO thread was locked, but happy to be corrected.
 
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