South Western Railway could axe quiet train carriages

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by GodAtum, 6 Dec 2017.

  1. GodAtum

    GodAtum Established Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42236003
    It's a shame the excuse is it cannot be enforced:

    Like saying we cannot check tickets so we might as well not run a train service :rolleyes:
     
  2. 3141

    3141 Member

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    I'd regret it if quiet carriages are no longer there, but how can they be enforced?

    Principally it's got be by passengers observing the rules, and other passengers speaking to them when they don't. In practice, many passengers who look as if they are normally law-abiding use their phone in a quiet coach whenever it suits them. Not many people point out to such a person that they are in the quiet coach and shouldn't use it.

    If someone refuses to be quiet, what else can be done? Where there's a guard, as on all SWR services, he or she should try to enforce it. So passengers in the quiet coach have to find the guard. What can the guard actually do? He's got other duties to perform every time the train stops, and he should also be checking tickets, so attempts to persuade the passenger to toe the line are going to be intermittent.

    I'd keep the quiet coach, tell guards to be more active in trying to enforce quietness, encourage passengers to ask rule-breakers to be quiet or go elsewhere and to support guards. Putting it another way, recognise that the situation isn't 100% satisfactory but continue to put up with that for the sake of the benefits when it does work.
     
  3. Doctor Fegg

    Doctor Fegg Member

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    "Some operators, including Cross Country and Great Western Railway, have already abolished quiet carriages on some of their services."

    What services have GWR abolished quiet carriages on? Yes, the First Class conversion work removed one of the quiet carriages on those services, but didn't "abolish" them: Carriage A remains a quiet carriage.
     
  4. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Well, the poll results so far are fairly conclusive.

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  5. al78

    al78 Member

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    Punch them in the face.

    No, not really, but there is nothing that can be done. It is similar to the case where staff are advised not to challenge fare dodgers if there is a risk of violence. That same risk applies to challenging anyone about anything, regardless of whether or not they are in the wrong. If you want to challenge someone on their behaviour, make sure you have backup and/or some effective self defence training.
     
  6. RichardN

    RichardN Member

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    Quiet zones could stay, but I'd rather it was in a middle coach than the end coach as there's nothing worse than two coupled together, right where you want to get on...
     
  7. Doctor Fegg

    Doctor Fegg Member

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    There are some things that are worse, e.g. having your eyeballs removed with a rusty spoon, or travelling on a Voyager.
     
  8. RichardN

    RichardN Member

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    at least I didn't say "literally nothing worse.."
     
  9. swaldman

    swaldman Member

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    Quiet coaches on uncrowded service where you make a choice are a great concept.

    Quiet coaches on a SWR commuter service, where you're lucky to have room to stand let alone a choice of which coach to do it in, are silly.

    Quiet coaches on a service with reservations where there is (at least, through online systems) no way to choose whether you want to be in or to avoid a quiet coach are equally silly.
     
  10. ChilternTurbo

    ChilternTurbo Member

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    The Quiet Zone on Chiltern Railways works pretty well during my commute. I've periodically done the not very British thing of politely reminding a someone on the phone that they're seated in a quiet area and apart from one obnoxious individual, it's been fine. I'd be disappointed if Chiltern ever got rid of them...
     
  11. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

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    I think it would be possible for a guard to respectfully call for cooperation if a passenger asks him to do so. If they can't even be brave enough to ask for that, or a fare to be paid, it's time to get another job it seems to me. I have gently asked people to be fair-minded about observing the rule, (just point to the notice on the bulkhead) and I've never had a problem. Many people live in a fog and don't read notices, but will understand when it's pointed out to them. I agree that in 'crush conditions' it's too much to ask.
     
  12. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Maybe no want of, or expense of conflict management training unless new franchisee chooses to?

    And then what powers does a guard have if someone tells him to f*ck off
     
  13. al78

    al78 Member

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    Whilst I can sympathise what can the guard do if firstly the pasasenger refuses and secondly the passenger becomes aggressive? It has been pointed out on here that guards shouldn't put themselves in danger dealing with a non-compliantr passenger. The unfortunate side effect of this is that the dickheads out there get away with their behaviour, and so sometimes being a dickhead pays (ultimately encouraging more dickhead behaviour). There is not an easy solution to this, I don't think calling the individuals bluff and being ready to exchange blows if it came down to it, would end up any better overall.
     
  14. moley

    moley Member

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    I think part of the problem is that when these were introduced in 2004, too many people thought they were silent coaches.

    Yes have your quiet conversation, your quiet call or music through headphones BUT don't don't make it loud enough I can hear, turn off your mobile ring tone and keep your music at a level it stays within your headphones.
     
  15. Harbouring

    Harbouring Member

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    On a SWR service, in the quiet carriage, in the middle of the day, 2 on duty staff members decided to spend ten minutes discussing what one of them won in a meat raffle at the weekend amongst other things. Didn’t bother me but it hardly sets the example that staff are willing to enforce quiet carriages.


    Nb. This is all 100% accurate seriously.
     
  16. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    The SWT/SWR quiet coaches are a bit silly, in my opinion. A third of a carriage or thereabouts, not in any way separated from the rest of the carriage and identified only by easily missed little stickers between - rather than on - the windows. I've travelled on trains that happen to be fairly quiet, I've travelled on trains that have been noisy, but I've never noticed it being properly observed. It does seem a slightly pointless feature in this particular instance.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I guess those SWR commuters are not as civilised as us on the south WCML.

    All coaches on south WCML commuter services are quiet coaches, entirely voluntarily. Woe betide (well, tutting and dirty looks betide) the odd person who doesn't comply. :)
     
  18. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Its been said many many times about 'quiet coaches' they are quiet not silent.
     
  19. Doctor Fegg

    Doctor Fegg Member

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    Though SWT did (on some trains, at least) label the quiet coach on the train doors, which is an excellent idea and one I wish GWR would copy.
     
  20. Harbouring

    Harbouring Member

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    Naturally, however they were sitting either side of the aisle (I was sitting on the seat next to the door the drivers use in a 450, the best seats in a 450) and they were quite loud because of this.
     
  21. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    It's better on the Desiro fleet where it is a whole carriage, but it is still not that well marked.
     
  22. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Is it? I must confess I didn't realise that, it was the Desiros I was talking about!
     
  23. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    True. I'd like to see more, though. Very large external branding and some sort of unmistakable internal distinction - perhaps the bulkheads and ceilings decked out in 'sky and clouds' vinyl or something, or a shiny teeth model doing a smiling 'shhhhh' face etc, along with markings on the seatbacks. Properly or not at all!
     
  24. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    It is a whole carriage on both the 444s and 450s! It is only about half a carriage on the 158s and 159s.
     
  25. Harbouring

    Harbouring Member

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    And on a single 450 this equals around 30% of std seating. Which is quite a lot.
     
  26. nlogax

    nlogax Member

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    From this perspective quiet coaches seemed to be barely policed, and mostly relied on the (supposed) good nature of Dorset, Surrey and Hampshire travelers. I've witnessed an occasional 'shush' from a passenger or two when it came to confronting those with leaky headphones but that's about it.
     
  27. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    The thing about quiet coaches is that they are arbitrary. For example the 8.02 Woking to Waterloo service has a quite coach, as does the 8.05 but the 8.32 and 9.02 don't.

    Trains from Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham spend half their time in countryside and smaller towns and villages, yet no quiet coach exists at any time unless they are borrowing a 450, when suddenly one appears.

    Incidentally they seem to struggle with the policing of bikes in the rush hour so I think they should remove the policy of not allowing bikes. I don't ride one myself so I wouldn't even gain from this relaxation. So they struggle to deal with it, get rid of it.
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Could they do the bike thing differently, i.e. a fee for carriage of a flat £50 before 0930? Then if anyone failed to pay and reached a barrier with a bike, that's a Byelaw or RoRA prosecution straight off.
     
  29. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    South Western argues it is unable to effectively conduct ticket inspections - which prohibit ticketless travel and combat antisocial behaviour.

    "There is a limited amount of action that we can take as a train operator," head of customer experience Christian Neil said.

    "We have had feedback from customers for many years, on both sides, saying that ticket inspections are not adequately enforced. Should ticket inspections be retained?".
     
  30. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    Credit where credit is due, at least South Western Railway is consulting its customers prior to making any changes.
     

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