South Western Railway questions

[gchq]

Hi there

I'm writing a novel that involves a character catching the 07:04 from Barnes and arriving, via Clapham Junction, at West Brompton 07:29

The last time I rode on a train it was pulled by a Co-Co class and the carriages were all British Rail maroon, probably around 1969. So personal experience is not something I can draw from Now living in the states it doesn't make that any easier.

I would be grateful if anyone who knows that route could describe the rolling stock used by South Western Railway?

Having visualised the doors opening and slamming shut it dawned on me that I could still be in the dark ages and the doors now slide shut with a 'hiss' - like the memory I have of the tubes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sounds, smells, technical stuff. Anything a commuter might notice.

Thank you

 

[55002]

Hi there

I'm writing a novel that involves a character catching the 07:04 from Barnes and arriving, via Clapham Junction, at West Brompton 07:29

The last time I rode on a train it was pulled by a Co-Co class and the carriages were all British Rail maroon, probably around 1969. So personal experience is not something I can draw from Now living in the states it doesn't make that any easier.

I would be grateful if anyone who knows that route could describe the rolling stock used by South Western Railway?

Having visualised the doors opening and slamming shut it dawned on me that I could still be in the dark ages and the doors now slide shut with a 'hiss' - like the memory I have of the tubes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sounds, smells, technical stuff. Anything a commuter might notice.

Thank you

This is the Clapham to West Brompton train these days

Image 378202, LO 16.01 Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction (2Y34), Kensington Olympia station

By 16.10 and just over two weeks from the shortest day it is getting pretty dark. Luckily, Kensington Olympia station is quite well lit so photography is still possible. 378202 arrives with the 16.01 Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction. #378202 #16.01 #Clapham #Junction-Willesden #Junction...

www.ontheupfast.com

barnes to Clapham train type example

Google Image Result for https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BOq4cHG_4Oc/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[gchq]

Thank you 55002 (tempted to scream 'I am not a number, I am a free man' but that would age me even more)

Is that a London underground logo I see? It's at an angle so I can't quite make it out

Would it be the same stock that goes from Barnes to Clapham?

Are there any warning sounds associated with the sliding doors (bings, bongs or anything that replaces the whistle I remember just before the train lurched forward)?

 

[55002]

Thank you 55002 (tempted to scream 'I am not a number, I am a free man' but that would age me even more)

Is that a London underground logo I see? It's at an angle so I can't quite make it out

Would it be the same stock that goes from Barnes to Clapham?

Are there any warning sounds associated with the sliding doors (bings, bongs or anything that replaces the whistle I remember just before the train lurched forward)?

They call it London Overground, run by Transport for London but not the underground or tube as that is known. Barnes to Clapham stock is the second (google) link. I not been on either stock long time since I lived that part of the world. Most trains with electric sliding doors have a beep beep beep type alarm sound to warn of doors closing However.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Hi there

I'm writing a novel that involves a character catching the 07:04 from Barnes and arriving, via Clapham Junction, at West Brompton 07:29

The last time I rode on a train it was pulled by a Co-Co class and the carriages were all British Rail maroon, probably around 1969. So personal experience is not something I can draw from Now living in the states it doesn't make that any easier.

I would be grateful if anyone who knows that route could describe the rolling stock used by South Western Railway?

Having visualised the doors opening and slamming shut it dawned on me that I could still be in the dark ages and the doors now slide shut with a 'hiss' - like the memory I have of the tubes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sounds, smells, technical stuff. Anything a commuter might notice.

Thank you

Hi, sounds interesting!

In addition to the information already given by 55002 regarding the train on the Barnes to Clapham Junction section, this video - particularly the warning sounds associated with the doors - may be of use:

Hope this helps!

 

[gchq]

They call it London Overground, run by Transport for London but not the underground or tube as that is known. Barnes to Clapham stock is the second (google) link. I not been on either stock long time since I lived that part of the world. Most trains with electric sliding doors have a beep beep beep type alarm sound to warn of doors closing However.

Sorry - didn't spot the second link. Looking up class 458 it's showing as a four or five coach electric unit. There are no overhead cables, so I assume must be powered via the lines?

 

[bb21]

0704 Barnes - Clapham is booked 10-car Class 458/5 in this timetable. They pretty much slam shut without a hiss. There are audible warning beeps before doors close.

They are third-rail only units, 5-car.

Class 455s might deputise, as might Class 707s.

 

[gchq]

Hi, sounds interesting!

In addition to the information already given by 55002 regarding the train on the Barnes to Clapham Junction section, this video - particularly the warning sounds associated with the doors - may be of use:

Hope this helps!

Helps? It's fantastic - just what I was looking for. Thank you so much

Are the lines more continuous these days, or do the overland trains still make the 'tuk tuk - tuk tuk' noise as it passes over the fishplated joints?

Where is he standing at around 03:38 in the video? Sounds like it must be right next to the electric motor, and that thing really winds up!

0704 Barnes - Clapham is booked 10-car Class 458/5 in this timetable. They pretty much slam shut without a hiss. There are audible warning beeps before doors close.

They are third-rail only units, 5-car.

Class 455s might deputise, as might Class 707s.

I found a photo where I can see the third rail. Thank you

Do all the doors open and close as they do on the tube, or are they 'on demand' dependent upon the passenger?

 

[bb21]

All door buttons are activated at stations (on coaches that are platformed), but you have to press the open button to get it to actually open (so "on demand" as you put it), unlike the tube where all doors are opened automatically.

Not sure what you meant by the "tuk tuk" but I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen any more (doesn't ring a bell in my head, but open to correction).

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Helps? It's fantastic - just what I was looking for. Thank you so much

Are the lines more continuous these days, or do the overland trains still make the 'tuk tuk - tuk tuk' noise as it passes over the fishplated joints?

Where is he standing at around 03:38 in the video? Sounds like it must be right next to the electric motor, and that thing really winds up!

You're welcome. Glad you found it useful.

If I understand you correctly (and do excuse that my knowledge of all the technical-mechanical track stuff isn't great), then in most places - including the line you are focusing on I believe - the track is in fact much smoother now, and said "jointed" track as I think it is referred to as only remains on more rural lines, where the 'tuk tuk' noise can still be heard (from my experience!)

And at 03:38, he looks to be standing in the gangway connection between the carriages.

 

[Steddenm]

The doors are opened by the passenger by pressing a button on either the inside or the outside. The open button has a [<>] symbol on. Close has [><] but they are normally closed in unison by the driver or the guard after the hustle bleeps have gone.

The tuk tuk sound is where the track is joined and a lot of track these days is continuous weld so that the clickety clack sound is only on points or where the welded track becomes jointed.

 

[gchq]

All door buttons are activated at stations (on coaches that are platformed), but you have to press the open button to get it to actually open (so "on demand" as you put it), unlike the tube where all doors are opened automatically.

Not sure what you meant by the "tuk tuk" but I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen any more (doesn't ring a bell in my head, but open to correction).

There used to be a regular sound as the carriage wheels ran over the rail joints. 'Tuk Tuk' at the first set of bogey wheels and then another 'Tuk Tuk' from the adjoined carriage, followed by a space the length of the carriage.

The doors are opened by the passenger by pressing a button on either the inside or the outside. The open button has a [<>] symbol on. Close has [><] but they are normally closed in unison by the driver or the guard after the hustle bleeps have gone.

The tuk tuk sound is where the track is joined and a lot of track these days is continuous weld so that the clickety clack sound is only on points or where the welded track becomes jointed.

Thank you. 'Hustle beeps' - what a great description

Even back in my day the familiar 'tuk tuk' - 'clickety clack' sometimes ran into the longer ssssshhhhhhhh noise - so it makes sense that most would be like this now

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There used to be a regular sound as the carriage wheels ran over the rail joints. 'Tuk Tuk' at the first set of bogey wheels and then another 'Tuk Tuk' from the adjoined carriage, followed by a space the length of the carriage.


Thank you. 'Hustle beeps' - what a great description

Even back in my day the familiar 'tuk tuk' - 'clickety clack' sometimes ran into the longer ssssshhhhhhhh noise - so it makes sense that most would be like this now

Every single type of train that runs on the Barnes route, including 458 is going to be replaced by a brand new Class 701 fleet between early 2021 and 2022. So it might be worth writing about this instead as the other trains will soon be history

 

[gchq]

Every single type of train that runs on the Barnes route, including 458 is going to be replaced by a brand new Class 701 fleet between early 2021 and 2022. So it might be worth writing about this instead as the other trains will soon be history

Getting the current 'feel' is challenging.

I watched both versions of 'The Taking of Pelham 123' back to back recently - there were so many technical errors, including the authors original title - it was daylight so it should have been 'Pelham 1323' - a lot of people don't notice the little details, but if it's a subject someone is familiar with the eyes will roll

 

[randyrippley]

That train in the video is still in Stagecoach colours, whats the correct livery now?

 

[AlastairFraser]

That train in the video is still in Stagecoach colours, whats the correct livery now?

I don't think they are going to be repainted into new South Western Railway colours because they're being withdrawn soon to be replaced by Class 701s, manufactured by the Canadian company Bombardier in Derby in the Midlands for @gchq's benefit.
Link to that is here:https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/arterio.
Pretty much all the trains in the area, including the trains from Barnes to Clapham and Clapham to West Brompton use 750V third rail (an additional electrified rail next to whichever side of the track not facing the platform, which implements attached to the train called conductor shoes use to pick up electricity from).

Helps? It's fantastic - just what I was looking for. Thank you so much

Are the lines more continuous these days, or do the overland trains still make the 'tuk tuk - tuk tuk' noise as it passes over the fishplated joints?

Where is he standing at around 03:38 in the video? Sounds like it must be right next to the electric motor, and that thing really winds up!


I found a photo where I can see the third rail. Thank you

Do all the doors open and close as they do on the tube, or are they 'on demand' dependent upon the passenger?

I believe the motor sound you are talking about is an AC induction motor, where a rotating magnetic field induces an electrical current in a rotor, which is what generates the strange sound. They used to have DC motors because the power supply to the train is 750V DC on third rail units, but AC motors I believe are more efficient and powerful, so an inverter is used to convert the current. In the Class 458 in the video, I believe there's one motorised bogie in a coach.

 

[Domh245]

That train in the video is still in Stagecoach colours, whats the correct livery now?

Still the same colours, only difference is that on the exterior the "South West Trains" logo has been replaced by a "South Western Railway" logo, and on the interior they're just grubbier and have some different safety posters

 

[AverageTD]

Given how SWR have a scorched earth policy with outgoing stock, it might be worth describing the utter state that SWR have left the 458s in! As someone mentioned earlier up in regard to the 701s it is definitely worth specifying the time this novel is set as the Barnes lines have changed an awful lot since the 10carification in 2013.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Barnes to Clapham Junction is a mixture of classes 455/456, class 458 and class 707. All have sliding doors, and are still in SWT colours (blue for class 458, red for the others) with the SWRs logo and lettering added. Class 455s have four cars, Class 456 have two cars, and run together to form a ten-car train. Classes 458 and 707 are 5-car units, and also run as ten-car trains. Apart from 455 and 456, mixed formations are not possible.
maxresdefault.jpg (1280×720) (ytimg.com) (455 on the left: that unit - 5913 happens to be the one that was rebuilt after a lorry fell on to it after crashing off a bridge)
maxresdefault.jpg (1280×720) (ytimg.com) a 458 at Barnes - the two westbound (away from London) platforms are in shot
32815711097_8ab6ae1fc0.jpg (500×331) (staticflickr.com) 5-car 707 approaching Barnes from the west

 

[gchq]

Given how SWR have a scorched earth policy with outgoing stock, it might be worth describing the utter state that SWR have left the 458s in! As someone mentioned earlier up in regard to the 701s it is definitely worth specifying the time this novel is set as the Barnes lines have changed an awful lot since the 10carification in 2013.

The novel is set in current time - sadly my memory of trains is set in a different era

There was the odd run from Leeds > London > Coast prior to 1968. I did, for a while, catch a local commuter train from Rustington to Worthing (to the High School). 'Venus' by 'Shocking Blue' ** was racing up the charts, so that must have been the summer of 1969. The memory I have of doors being slammed shut by the guard, a whistle blowing and the deep bass tone of the diesel engine are so different to the sliding doors with annoying smoke alarm like noises and the high pitched tone of the electric motors.

** I was just checking that date, and noticed that Shocking Blue also had a hit with 'Never Marry a Railroad Man'

Have you been broken-hearted once or twice
If it's yes, how did you feel at his first lies?
If it's no, you need this good advice

Never marry a Railroad man
He loves you every now and then
His heart is at his new train, no, no, no
Don't fall in love with a Railroad man

 

[Steddenm]

The bleeping you hear in this video is sounds of the hustle alarms which sound prior to a train door closing.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I did, for a while, catch a local commuter train from Rustington to Worthing (to the High School). that must have been the summer of 1969. The memory I have of doors being slammed shut by the guard, a whistle blowing and the deep bass tone of the diesel engine

Rustington - where my grandfather was born, and lived in an old railway carriage for some years - has no station. The nearest are Angmering and Littlehampton, so you probably travelled from there. The line was electrified in the mid 1930s, so it is unlikely you had diesels on a regular basis in the 1960s. I think the old 2BIL units were still around in 1969 (the last were withdrawn in 1971), but 2HAPs were probably more common. They had quite a deep-toned sound when starting from rest.
2BIL.JPG (394×274) (youchoos.co.uk) 2BIL
10643107405_a6c6b82475_b.jpg (1024×668) (staticflickr.com) 2HAP

 

[tbtc]

This is one of those threads where I really love watching the Hive Mind of the Forum provide various different types of knowledge/expertise - it's not my neck of the woods (so I can't be of help), but it's great to see how everyone combines.

I watched both versions of 'The Taking of Pelham 123' back to back recently - there were so many technical errors, including the authors original title - it was daylight so it should have been 'Pelham 1323' - a lot of people don't notice the little details, but if it's a subject someone is familiar with the eyes will roll

Going off topic (apologies!), but, as someone who loves these kind of nit-picking bits of trivia, can you explain why 1323? Are the codes used different at different times of the day? These minor details are fascinating.

(as a spotty youth, I didn't know there was a film called The Taking Of Pelham 123, I just knew the Carter USM song "The Taking Of Peckham 123" without realising it was a pun on something else! I only watched the remake a couple of years ago, but without the knowledge of US transport to identify the kind of errors you are talking about)

 

[gchq]

This is one of those threads where I really love watching the Hive Mind of the Forum provide various different types of knowledge/expertise - it's not my neck of the woods (so I can't be of help), but it's great to see how everyone combines.



Going off topic (apologies!), but, as someone who loves these kind of nit-picking bits of trivia, can you explain why 1323? Are the codes used different at different times of the day? These minor details are fascinating.

(as a spotty youth, I didn't know there was a film called The Taking Of Pelham 123, I just knew the Carter USM song "The Taking Of Peckham 123" without realising it was a pun on something else! I only watched the remake a couple of years ago, but without the knowledge of US transport to identify the kind of errors you are talking about)

There were two movies based on the Novel - one in 1974 starring Walter Matthau and one in 2009 with Denzil Washington.

The designation for the train is the destination and the time it leaves the departing station - so 123 should be leaving at 01:23 - but it's daylight so must be 13:23.

Part of the movie involves uncoupling the lead car - but the type they are using in the 2009 movie will not operate as a separate unit

 

[Western Gaffer]

'Venus' by 'Shocking Blue' ** was racing up the charts, so that must have been the summer of 1969

No, that was Bryan Adams

 

[gchq]

No, that was Bryan Adams

Venus (Shocking Blue song) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Western Gaffer]

Venus (Shocking Blue song) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_'69 was the joke....

 

[gchq]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_'69 was the joke....

It's not even light yet on the west coast - that one flew right over my head

Bryan Adams, of course, would have been ten years old in the summer of '69 that I remember

 

[tbtc]

There were two movies based on the Novel - one in 1974 starring Walter Matthau and one in 2009 with Denzil Washington.

The designation for the train is the destination and the time it leaves the departing station - so 123 should be leaving at 01:23 - but it's daylight so must be 13:23.

Part of the movie involves uncoupling the lead car - but the type they are using in the 2009 movie will not operate as a separate unit

Thanks for explaining - I didn't know if the "123" was a head code (in the way that UK train services use "number, letter, number, number" to identify journeys) - these little things make the hobby so interesting

 

[puffing billy]

Hi there

I'm writing a novel that involves a character catching the 07:04 from Barnes and arriving, via Clapham Junction, at West Brompton 07:29

The last time I rode on a train it was pulled by a Co-Co class and the carriages were all British Rail maroon, probably around 1969. So personal experience is not something I can draw from Now living in the states it doesn't make that any easier.

I would be grateful if anyone who knows that route could describe the rolling stock used by South Western Railway?

Having visualised the doors opening and slamming shut it dawned on me that I could still be in the dark ages and the doors now slide shut with a 'hiss' - like the memory I have of the tubes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sounds, smells, technical stuff. Anything a commuter might notice.

Thank you

If your character is travelling from Barnes then warn them not to go too far along the platform because they may have to make a last minute dash up the stairs to another platform when SWR announce a platform alteration just as the train is approaching the station!!!