Southeastern changes for Blackfriars Bays re-opening

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swt_passenger

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Just seen this on NR's track access application page, we were discussing it a couple of weeks ago based on journey planner queries, so this should confirm what was worked out then.

Confirms as discussed at the same time that the services that reversed at City Thameslink early on weekday mornings will move back to Blackfriars as well.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...2/southeastern may 2012 timetable changes.pdf
 
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Class377/5

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Great find. Not long before the bays are operational. Just a shame they aren't accessible from London Bridge.
 

Minstral25

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Will these changes increase conflicts on the route up from Herne Hill as the South Eastern services have to cross over the Thameslink services from Herne Hill at Loughborough Junction/Elephant and Castle on a flat junction.

Presumably at some point these will swap with the Wimbledon route services to reduce conflicts on flat junctions. Does anyone know when this may happen - when Thameslink trains stop going through London Bridge, when Thameslink take over South Central or when full Thameslink service is introduced.
 

Bald Rick

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Does anyone know when this may happen - when Thameslink trains stop going through London Bridge, when Thameslink take over South Central or when full Thameslink service is introduced.
1) no, 2) no, 3) maybe - or maybe they will keep on through the core; not decided yet.
 

Class377/5

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Will these changes increase conflicts on the route up from Herne Hill as the South Eastern services have to cross over the Thameslink services from Herne Hill at Loughborough Junction/Elephant and Castle on a flat junction.

Presumably at some point these will swap with the Wimbledon route services to reduce conflicts on flat junctions. Does anyone know when this may happen - when Thameslink trains stop going through London Bridge, when Thameslink take over South Central or when full Thameslink service is introduced.
It won't create a massively conflicted route, currently they interact with little problem.

As for Loop, no-one knows for sure as the final service plan is still fluid. Over current thinking the Loop trains will going into the bays around the major re-arranging of the service plan. It may be done in two phases but that's not confirmed yet. We should know in 18 months however.
 

swt_passenger

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According to the current Network Rail network change notice, the track layout being currently made ready for the May timetable is still only an interim layout. This might be of interest, as the drawings at the end of the pdf show all the stages of work leading up to this Easter, when the final testing is due:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...link\NCG12011TLP005 Blackfriars Interim Track

I think this must be because there are further changes due to be made when Thameslink gets its second track round from Metropolitan Jn. I haven't seen anything official issued by NR yet, but the line diagrams in Modern Railways a few years back suggested that there would eventually be a route from London Bridge into the bay platforms. From that diagram in the linked document above, it would only need one additional crossover from the Up Holborn Fast to the Down Holborn Slow to give this extra facility.
 

Class377/5

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According to the current Network Rail network change notice, the track layout being currently made ready for the May timetable is still only an interim layout. This might be of interest, as the drawings at the end of the pdf show all the stages of work leading up to this Easter, when the final testing is due:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...link\NCG12011TLP005 Blackfriars Interim Track

I think this must be because there are further changes due to be made when Thameslink gets its second track round from Metropolitan Jn. I haven't seen anything official issued by NR yet, but the line diagrams in Modern Railways a few years back suggested that there would eventually be a route from London Bridge into the bay platforms. From that diagram in the linked document above, it would only need one additional crossover from the Up Holborn Fast to the Down Holborn Slow to give this extra facility.
Interesting....

Just had a look, seems 6x 12 car NXEMU I'll be stabled at Horsham

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...horsham sidings/ncg12011tlp005horsham ncn.pdf
 

OliverS

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Interesting....

Just had a look, seems 6x 12 car NXEMU I'll be stabled at Horsham

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...horsham sidings/ncg12011tlp005horsham ncn.pdf
That's great, I had a faint recollection that units were going to be stabled at Horsham. Now I know where.

I think there are faint signs that something has been going on in that area to the extent that I had thought that those sidings were going to be put into use for something.

It also makes sense that they aren't going to use the two sidings next to the ones Southern use north of the station adjacent to the Three Bridges lines as there obviously isn't enough room for 6 units.
 

Bald Rick

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According to the current Network Rail network change notice, the track layout being currently made ready for the May timetable is still only an interim layout. This might be of interest, as the drawings at the end of the pdf show all the stages of work leading up to this Easter, when the final testing is due:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...link\NCG12011TLP005 Blackfriars Interim Track

I think this must be because there are further changes due to be made when Thameslink gets its second track round from Metropolitan Jn. I haven't seen anything official issued by NR yet, but the line diagrams in Modern Railways a few years back suggested that there would eventually be a route from London Bridge into the bay platforms. From that diagram in the linked document above, it would only need one additional crossover from the Up Holborn Fast to the Down Holborn Slow to give this extra facility.
Final layout has been agreed (very recently) and there will not be a facility from London Bridge into the bays.
 

swt_passenger

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Final layout has been agreed (very recently) and there will not be a facility from London Bridge into the bays.
Someone will have possibly made a judgement that although the core might be shut for engineering work in future, the through platforms at Blackfriars will probably always be available to reverse trains in!
 

Class377/5

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Someone will have possibly made a judgement that although the core might be shut for engineering work in future, the through platforms at Blackfriars will probably always be available to reverse trains in!
And City Thameslink tho not for the peak 18tph!
 
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