Southeastern High speed train driver, Faversham, Ashford & Ramsgate

[43066]

I think HS work could be considerably improved if there were less stops - I think most diagrams still have less stops than the main line equivalent but it’s still a lot.

As I understand it the classic services were slowed down considerably when high speed was introduced - they used to do Ashford - Tonbridge - Sevenoaks - Waterloo East - Ch+.

Most SE classic mainline services now seem to be all shacks once they get outside the M25.

 

[387star]

Weren't loads of them being taxied up to Orpington to learn their routes (with the taxi journey both ways included in their shifts, so very little driving!).

(sorry this is off topic, but fascinating nonetheless).

It's very odd as the Cambridge service might NEVER start. Likewise Sevenoaks to Welwyn extensions. Bit of an odd situation.

 

[43066]

It's very odd as the Cambridge service might NEVER start. Likewise Sevenoaks to Welwyn extensions. Bit of an odd situation.

Yep - very strange. I think TL was originally intended to send a lot more trains via East Croydon to Surrey/Sussex, and the various Kent destinations were only added at the last minute when it was realised that wasn’t possible due to capacity reasons.

I think Orpington GTR only sign as far as Cricklewood, whereas SE Orpington drivers (who lost their last remaining GTR work in the last few weeks) used to sign all the way to Bedford.

 

[387star]

Yep - very strange. I think TL was originally intended to send a lot more trains via East Croydon to Surrey/Sussex, and the various Kent destinations were only added at the last minute when it was realised that wasn’t possible due to capacity reasons.

I think Orpington GTR only sign as far as Cricklewood, whereas SE Orpington drivers (who lost their last remaining GTR work in the last few weeks) used to sign all the way to Bedford.

Ah yeah forgot about Orpington
I think the Maidstone /Ashford was always intended whereas Rainham was last minute
Bedford is massively downsized. Funny place . The sort where people think it's funny to fill your kit bag with crap when you leave the room for a few minutes.

 

[43066]

Bedford is massively downsized. Funny place . The sort where people think it's funny to fill your kit bag with crap when you leave the room for a few minutes.

Some strange people in this industry...

 

[ComUtoR]

whereas SE Orpington drivers (who lost their last remaining GTR work in the last few weeks) used to sign all the way to Bedford.

They only signed Bedford for a short time. In recent years they only signed as far as Luton.

 

[43066]

They only signed Bedford for a short time. In recent years they only signed as far as Luton.

Presumably they’ve picked up additional SE metro work in order to replace the lost GTR work?

Link 1 must hate having to actually work for a living.

 

[ComUtoR]

Presumably they’ve picked up additional SE metro work in order to replace the lost GTR work?

The great big metro reshuffle is still taking place. But yes, death by Vic and back.

Link 1 must be hating having to work for a living .

Orpy goes to one link in May. Link 1 are still in shock at the short PNBs, crappy trains, number of stops (114 today !!!!) and being late everywhere. At least they don't constantly break down anymore

 

[43066]

Orpy goes to one link in May. Link 1 are still in shock at the short PNBs, crappy trains, number of stops (114 today !!!!) and being late everywhere. At least they don't constantly break down anymore D

Brutal!!!

Time to put in for that Tonbridge move?!

 

[ComUtoR]

I think Tonbridge are still getting over both AC and *DC.....

Keeping on topic.. There are two ex Orpington Drivers on HS1. One went over specifically to circumvent the waiting list for Dover depot. He was told that he would get a transfer to HS1 within a week. He was gone before the ink was dry on his transfer papers.

*part of the reason why there is a 'policy' about HS1 and cab passes...

 

[SlimJim1694]

But pay parity with nearby tocs is a major issue something I’m told may be resolved in the next pay deal ?

I hope you are right. I'd be interested to know who told you that because our DCC sold the family jewels many years ago. Yes I'll grant DCC the 9.15 max turn, the 4 day week and getting rid of the awful committed hours, but we haven't got any other conditions left to sell, there is no appetite for strikes and everyone too reliant on the rest days. The only bargaining chip left is that metro drivers are leaving or being sacked faster than they can be replaced, but there is no shortage of TPWS-fodder to replace them so the gravy train keeps rolling on.

 

[43066]

One went over specifically to circumvent the waiting list for Dover depot. He was told that he would get a transfer to HS1 within a week. He was gone before the ink was dry on his transfer papers.

There’s at least one that works for Eurostar I believe?

I hope you are right. I'd be interested to know who told you that because our DCC sold the family jewels many years ago. Yes I'll grant DCC the 9.15 max turn, the 4 day week and getting rid of the awful committed hours, but we haven't got any other conditions left to sell, there is no appetite for strikes and everyone too reliant on the rest days. The only bargaining chip left is that metro drivers are leaving or being sacked faster than they can be replaced, but there is no shortage of TPWS-fodder to replace them so the gravy train keeps rolling on.

That’s it, in a nutshell: T’s and C’s sold donkeys’ years ago for pennies; a weak union; absolutely no solidarity nor sight of the bigger picture; many drivers will accept a rubbish pay rise and then grab all the rest days under the sun - working a 5 day week just to bring their wages up to what other TOCs pay as a basic for 4 days.

Admittedly, the endless franchise extensions haven’t helped. But far too many simply moan and complain about their lot in life, yet aren’t willing (or able) to vote with their feet. Lots of bitter, sad old dinosaurs, lurking in the messrooms, moaning about their next 100+ stop (rest day) shifts...

Lots of dubious recruitment decisions, people who should be nowhere near the business end of a train are given keys, and rapidly end up trapped by their shocking safety records.

Not helped by the patchy and variable quality of instructors, many of whom are doing it for the wrong reasons, and are trapped themselves because of their own poor safety records.

 

[ComUtoR]

There’s at least one that works for Eurostar I believe?

Dartford just lost one to Eurostar.

Not helped by the patchy and variable quality of instructors, many of whom are doing it for the wrong reasons, and are trapped themselves because of their own poor safety records.

Sometimes a less than spotless safety record makes you appreciate what can and does go wrong. There is a theory that having an incident can and often does make you a better Driver.

 

[43066]

Sometimes a less than spotless safety record makes you appreciate what can and does go wrong. There is a theory that having an incident can and often does make you a better Driver.

Many of SE’s crack, prestigious, high speed drivers, will agree with that statement.

 

[Economist]

There’s at least one that works for Eurostar I believe?



That’s it, in a nutshell: T’s and C’s sold donkeys’ years ago for pennies; a weak union; absolutely no solidarity nor sight of the bigger picture; many drivers will accept a rubbish pay rise and then grab all the rest days under the sun - working a 5 day week just to bring their wages up to what other TOCs pay as a basic for 4 days.

Admittedly, the endless franchise extensions haven’t helped. But far too many simply moan and complain about their lot in life, yet aren’t willing (or able) to vote with their feet. Lots of bitter, sad old dinosaurs, lurking in the messrooms, moaning about their next 100+ stop (rest day) shifts...

Lots of dubious recruitment decisions, people who should be nowhere near the business end of a train are given keys, and rapidly end up trapped by their shocking safety records.

Not helped by the patchy and variable quality of instructors, many of whom are doing it for the wrong reasons, and are trapped themselves because of their own poor safety records.

I take it you managed to escape then? You won't be the first and certainly won't be the last.

To be fair though, I have known of people with incidents changing companies, some of which went to other passenger TOCs, some freight. Nonetheless, the plum jobs generally ended up going to people with a clean record.

Fingers crossed, touch wood, I'll be able to keep my record clean...

 

[43066]

I take it you managed to escape then? You won't be the first and certainly won't be the last.

To clarify, I have never worked for SE. But I know some people who have.

Fingers crossed, touch wood, I'll be able to keep my record clean for another year or so...

That’s the best way forward.

 

[notadriver]

Many of SE’s crack, prestigious, high speed drivers, will agree with that statement.

In all honesty I don’t think their safety records are any better or worse than the main line drivers at the same depot. Maybe with relatively fewer drivers any incidents they do have stand out like a sore thumb ?

As for the pay deal I think it’s going to involve making conductors into some kind of On Board Supervisors like on Southern. I don’t think that should be allowed to happen.

 

[SlimJim1694]

As for the pay deal I think it’s going to involve making conductors into some kind of On Board Supervisors like on Southern. I don’t think that should be allowed to happen.

ASLEF agreed to DOO years ago. Drivers already open the doors where there is a guard, and the drivers conditions state that all trains will be single manned. The company wouldn't have to get it past the DCC.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Would this be a good time to withdraw my SE trainee driver application for Vic!?

 

[SlimJim1694]

Would this be a good time to withdraw my SE trainee driver application for Vic!?

Definitely not. Get in, get your key, keep your nose clean and then you can go and work wherever you like.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Definitely not. Get in, get your key, keep your nose clean and then you can go and work wherever you like.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek, but thank you. It does seem though that SE seems to get a bit of stick on here from its own staff which does make you think!

Do other TOCs regularly advertise for qualified drivers?

 

[Class2ldn]

I went from se to TL and I dont regret it one bit.
It's not as good as it was since it was taken over by Govia but the terms and conditions are still good.
We do have committed sundays now and our committed rest day agreement has just ended so the rest days have dried up a bit now so having the sundays is a good way of topping the dough up.
Wont turn my nose up at £54 an hour for a 9h45 AR turn lol
In terms of the railway se are probably near the bottom for job satisfaction but from an outsider it will still be better then a fair few jobs not on the railway.

 

[ComUtoR]

As for the pay deal I think it’s going to involve making conductors into some kind of On Board Supervisors like on Southern. I don’t think that should be allowed to happen.

Who's pay deal ? The Drivers or the Guards ?

ASLEF don't have the power to change the Guards contracts and as already stated, DOO is already agreed in the Drivers terms. The Drivers pay deal is imminent but is waiting on a couple of factors first. There has been no rumors of what it includes that I am aware of and there are other pressing concerns for SE Drivers.

For Guards to become On Board Supervisors there also needs to be a change with platform dispatch arrangements. This can only happen with the introduction of new stock. Once the 'announcement' has been made (any day now) then IF that comes with rolling stock procurement then potentially that could happen. I would be shocked, but not surprised that SE would try and sneak a condition under the radar because it isn't relevant for a few years.

 

[wolfman]

There’s at least one that works for Eurostar I believe?



That’s it, in a nutshell: T’s and C’s sold donkeys’ years ago for pennies; a weak union; absolutely no solidarity nor sight of the bigger picture; many drivers will accept a rubbish pay rise and then grab all the rest days under the sun - working a 5 day week just to bring their wages up to what other TOCs pay as a basic for 4 days.

Admittedly, the endless franchise extensions haven’t helped. But far too many simply moan and complain about their lot in life, yet aren’t willing (or able) to vote with their feet. Lots of bitter, sad old dinosaurs, lurking in the messrooms, moaning about their next 100+ stop (rest day) shifts...

Lots of dubious recruitment decisions, people who should be nowhere near the business end of a train are given keys, and rapidly end up trapped by their shocking safety records.

Not helped by the patchy and variable quality of instructors, many of whom are doing it for the wrong reasons, and are trapped themselves because of their own poor safety records.

How times change ,made redundant and had a spell at Orpinton in BR days work was crap but we had a strong union ,great bunch of lads to work with and at the drop of a hat we dropped the handle. Enjoyed my short time there.

 

[43066]

Would this be a good time to withdraw my SE trainee driver application for Vic!?

As per @SlimJim1694 ’s response - it’s a way to get a key, and a pretty steep learning curve in terms of metro work.

Make the most of the training, do your best to keep your nose clean for a couple of years, and suddenly you’ll find you have decent exit options.

AIUI Victoria is one of the better depots to join - a mixture of (guarded) mainline work to Ashford and Faversham, albeit more metro stuff than they used to do.

Not quite sure on the link structure following the recent metro changes, but (at least until recently) newly qualified Vic drivers were doing mainline work straight after getting a key.

 

[JammyJames08]

As per @SlimJim1694 ’s response - it’s a way to get a key, and a pretty steep learning curve in terms of metro work.

Make the most of the training, do your best to keep your nose clean for a couple of years, and suddenly you’ll find you have decent exit options.

AIUI Victoria is one of the better depots to join - a mixture of (guarded) mainline work to Ashford and Faversham, albeit more metro stuff than they used to do.

Not quite sure on the link structure following the recent metro changes, but (at least until recently) newly qualified Vic drivers were doing mainline work straight after getting a key.

Link one has 18
Line two has 50

few vacancies with more to come, keep the application in mate.

jj

 

[43066]

Link one has 18
Line two has 50

few vacancies with more to come, keep the application in mate.

jj

Out of interest, what’s the difference between the links? Does link 1 still go all the way to the coast?

What mainline work does link 2 do, and what’s the split between metro and mainline?

Metro wise I gather they now do Gravesend/Sevenoaks/Hayes/Dartford all ways?

Cheers.

 

[Greg1205]

Are there any SE High speed drivers ? This was meant to be HIgh Speed thread and now it turned into completely irrelevant discussion...

 

[JammyJames08]

Out of interest, what’s the difference between the links? Does link 1 still go all the way to the coast?

What mainline work does link 2 do, and what’s the split between metro and mainline?

Metro wise I gather they now do Gravesend/Sevenoaks/Hayes/Dartford all ways?

Cheers.

Following the december changes, Link 1 does Faversham and the runs to Selhurst, Link 2 doesn't now.

Link 2 mainline work is as far as Gillingham (via sole street), Canterbury West Via Maidstone East, Metro work yes all ways to Gravesend, Hayes and also Blackfriars to Beck J and of course orpy-vics.

JJ

 

[JammyJames08]

Are there any SE High speed drivers ? This was meant to be HIgh Speed thread and now it turned into completely irrelevant discussion...

I did apply and got rejected in November, so i'm surprised they're recruiting again so soon