Southeastern HS1 first class?

[GodAtum]

Why doesnt Southeastern's HS1 trains have 1st class? Did it not seem financially viable?

 

[island]

A better question is why are there many flows for which the only first class fares published are route PLUS HIGH SPEED?

 

[Flying Snail]

Why doesnt Southeastern's HS1 trains have 1st class? Did it not seem financially viable?

The general idea seemed to be that the HS1 service would be a quasi 1st class service in it's entirety compared to the existing lines service.

In case there was any doubt the fast services to HS1 destinations were removed or butchered.

Since the withdrawl of slam door stock the only real benefit of 1st on any SR services has been a better chance of getting a seat, this should not be an issue on Javelin services.

 

[GodAtum]

Since the withdrawl of slam door stock the only real benefit of 1st on any SR services has been a better chance of getting a seat, this should not be an issue on Javelin services.

Does anyone who commutes regularly on the Javelin always get a seat?

 

[D365]

Certainly seems pleasant in there, the service seems 1st class in itself.

 

[district]

Does anyone who commutes regularly on the Javelin always get a seat?

The first off peak up train of the day (0943 from Ashford Intl.) is always full and standing. I commute regularly on Javelins, but in the down direction, and they are generally busy, but rarely are people standing.

 

[All Line Rover]

Does anyone who commutes regularly on the Javelin always get a seat?

No, it's often full to/from Ashford.

 

[yorksrob]

A better question is why are there many flows for which the only first class fares published are route PLUS HIGH SPEED?

I suppose at least you still have the default option of travelling in first class (or at least what passes for it on the south eastern division these days) on the classic route.

 

[Southern]

The first off peak up train of the day (0943 from Ashford Intl.) is always full and standing. I commute regularly on Javelins, but in the down direction, and they are generally busy, but rarely are people standing.

Really? Even since they lengthened it from 6 to 12 - cars?

 

[district]

Really? Even since they lengthened it from 6 to 12 - cars?

The 0822 Ashford Intl - Margate is 12 cars (IIRC). Not sure what this is formed from on the way up.

 

[Ivo]

I think there should have been a First Class option on the Javelins. Nothing major though; half a carriage at most? The two ends of each unit maybe, as is true of several Southern Region units? Not sure I see the point on St Pancras to Stratford journeys though

 

[MCR247]

Javelins don't have 3+2?

 

[cyclebytrain]

Does anyone who commutes regularly on the Javelin always get a seat?

Faversham/Maidstone trains, yes. Never a problem getting a seat. Unless it's one of the busiest of the day, (the first and last all stations to Faversham in the shoulder peaks) you're almost certain to get two to yourself.

I believe the Ashford ones are busier, but don't know about them from personal experience. Certainly you can usually see some people standing as they depart st. P in the evenings.

 

[LexyBoy]

Javelins don't have 3+2?

No, nor do many of the units used on the (non-metro) "classic" routes.

 

[paul1609]

Faversham/Maidstone trains, yes. Never a problem getting a seat. Unless it's one of the busiest of the day, (the first and last all stations to Faversham in the shoulder peaks) you're almost certain to get two to yourself.

I believe the Ashford ones are busier, but don't know about them from personal experience. Certainly you can usually see some people standing as they depart st. P in the evenings.

Ashford services are all approaching full in the peak and load well most of the day. I reckon HS1 has 90%+ of the Ashford and beyond market.
Classic services are generally lightly loaded to Tonbridge now. Some railhead stations such as Headcorn have seen a major drop in traffic as many people have changed their railhead to Ashford. I think southeastern probably got the adjustment of timetables about right.

 

[user15681]

I think there should have been a First Class option on the Javelins. Nothing major though; half a carriage at most? The two ends of each unit maybe, as is true of several Southern Region units? Not sure I see the point on St Pancras to Stratford journeys though

The two ends of each unit, the area where you would see First Class on the likes of 375s, are taken up by the cabs.

 

[MikeWh]

A better question is why are there many flows for which the only first class fares published are route PLUS HIGH SPEED?

The general idea seemed to be that the HS1 service would be a quasi 1st class service in it's entirety compared to the existing lines service.

Indeed, and that is what Southeastern still believe! Here is a web query I sent prompted by an earlier thread on here:

I am trying to work out the best (cheapest?) way to travel from Homerton to Ashford International for my Aunt. She has a zone 1-2 travelcard on her Oyster. Understandably she doesn't really want to waste time crossing London and using the slow classic lines. There seem to be two options available but both have questions: 1) Buy a return from Homerton to Ashford route "Any Permitted". This is obviously valid on HS1, but the only fares are first class when both the train from Homerton to Stratford and from Stratford to Ashford are standard class only. Why is there no standard class fare for this journey? 2) Buy a return from boundary zone 2 to Ashford route "Any Permitted". The question here is that travelcards are not valid on HS1, but the travelcard ceases to be used between Hackney Wick and Stratford so the whole journey on HS1 is undertaken on the any permitted extension ticket. So, is this combination valid for my Aunt's journey? If not, please explain why not.

Thank you for your web form dated 25 September.

I understand that you'd like to know the cheapest available fare for your auntie when she travels from Homerton to Ashford International.

Firstly, I can confirm that the quickest route is to travel via Stratford Intranational. However, as the service that operates between Stratford International and Ashford is a high speed service, there is no standard class ticket. It may be cheaper to purchase two separate tickets for this journey. The first ticket from Homerton to Stratford and then a ticket from Stratford International to Ashford.

Also, I can confirm that Stratford is in zone 3. Therefore, your aunt's Oyster card would not be valid to travel to this station, unless she bought an extension. Not only this, you cannot purchase an extension ticket for the high speed with an Oyster card.

Considering the above, the cheapest and quickest way to make this journey, would be to purchase a ticket from Homerton to Stratford and then purchase another ticket from Stratford International to Ashford on the high speed.

Having said the above, an cheaper ticket for this journey could be purchased if your auntie used our mainline services to reach to Ashford International. This is because mainline tickets are cheaper than high speed tickets.

I hope this response has been helpful and thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Yours sincerely

******** ****
Customer Relations Officer
Southeastern

As they don't seem to have answered my questions properly I'm considering a further response.

 

[RJ]

I'm still of the opinion that an inboundary Travelcard/BZ extension is invalid for use between Stratford International and Ashford. However, they should work on fixing the claim that it's ok to not offer Standard Class fares on this flow.

 

[Southern]

The 0822 Ashford Intl - Margate is 12 cars (IIRC). Not sure what this is formed from on the way up.

0922 (or the 0840 from St Pancras) is the 12...I have to get the 0822 for college every Monday/Thursday morning and it's a standard 6, turns out a nice crowd at Canterbury West too. Looks to have previously worked the 0804 from Ebbsfleet. 0853 Margate - St Pancras is now 12 - cars from Ashford, change seems to have been pretty recent so perhaps in response to 6 not being enough.

 

[GodAtum]

Other question, how come the bins are covered up?

 

[Mojo]

They aren't. They were only covered up during the Olympics and Paralympics, for security reasons

Except for the fact that the bins in the toilets were left still operational, for hygiene reasons.

 

[GodAtum]

Ah so thats why it was such a mess. Lots of Starbucks cups left on tables!