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Your suggestions for the next Southeastern franchise

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Agent_Squash

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And also the lack of toilets that’s been going on for months due to ongoing depot safety issues which has quite frankly been going on for years... this is why I would like to see some sort of change within the franchise. SE and Govia (on GTR) for that matter are symbolic for their lack of investment or modernisation and outdated practices. Surely they could provide tanking equipment at terminal stations such as Victoria or Charing Cross like a lot of other operators can manage. It would be good to see Stagecoach take over as they have experience running major intercity operators well and not just low quality commuter services.
Stagecoach's commuter service wasn't viewed as being that bad either - some people still want SWT back!
 
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KingJ

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Issues with cleaners being safety issues with serious consequences.

It's somewhat telling though that issues with cleaning/emptying toilet tanks only started after LESR & Wettons were prosecuted in court and lost, despite the safety issue that resulted in a fatality occurring some 2.5 years beforehand.

(That is not at all to say the new safety changes are unnecessary, but rather than they have only made these changes after they were prosecuted, and not after the actual incident occurred. That course of action gives an impression to me that they were only willing to implement change when forced to, rather than upon identifying a deficiency. There may of course be legal or other reasons behind that though that aren't in the public domain though.)

Surely they could provide tanking equipment at terminal stations such as Victoria or Charing Cross like a lot of other operators can manage. It would be good to see Stagecoach take over as they have experience running major intercity operators well and not just low quality commuter services.

With platform capacity being extremely constrained at both Victoria and Charing Cross, i'd imagine it's somewhat impractical to empty tanks there without severely reducing terminating capacity.
 

Carlisle

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SE and Govia (on GTR) for that matter are symbolic for their lack of investment or modernisation and outdated practices. .
They’re neither better or worse than the majority of other train operators, who’ve decided cleaning isn’t a part of their core business and outsourced it to (presumably) the cheapest contractor, who’s job it is decide on practices etc .
 

KingJ

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In the May 2018 issue of Transport Focus's Transport User Voice newsletter, there was a small snippet of information about the current status of bidding for the new franchise;

South Eastern bid review and extension to April 2019

Members of the team have been busy reading bidders’ plans for customer experience for the next franchise. We lent our review reports to the Department for Transport to provide evaluators with our opinion on how well the proposals met the requirements of the invitation to tender.

A short extension to the current contract means the new franchise will start in April 2019.
Source: https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/news-events-media/news/tuv-may-2018-train-company/

This is the first i've heard about the bid review and subsequent new franchise start being extended past the original December 2018 date. The only other reference I could find is this press release on Go-Ahead's site, I can't find anything about this on the DfT's site.

Edit: A further look around confirms that April 2019 has been set as the date for a while. Must have missed that somehow!
 

HH

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This is the first i've heard about the bid review and subsequent new franchise start being extended past the original December 2018 date. The only other reference I could find is this press release on Go-Ahead's site, I can't find anything about this on the DfT's site.

Edit: A further look around confirms that April 2019 has been set as the date for a while. Must have missed that somehow!
The negotiations for the extension were only completed very recently, so not been set for a while. DfT wouldn't want to publicise another failure to meet their own timescales, so it's hardly surprising that you hadn't seen anything.
 

whhistle

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Sorry, can someone confirm who are the approved bidders for this franchise?
 

otomous

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Sorry, can someone confirm who are the approved bidders for this franchise?

The usual bunch.

Nothing will change. One whiff of the removal of a Dartford via Sidcup not calling at Mottingham like it’s done since 1672 and the local press and MPs will run scared and bury any attempt at an overhaul.
 

ScotGG

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Useful things aside from services will likely not happen such as all day staffing to protect revenue and increase appeal of off peak travel, alongside far better marketing and PR.

Such potential for the Metro routes not being taken. Its still 2 trains an hour ffs at times.
 

BluePenguin

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That at least gives me hope that whoever wins, the Networkers are going.
What will they be replaced with I wonder? I hope they have replaced with class 700s as although they are very uncomfortable in standard class, they are much nicer and look more attractive when seen out and about in service
 

NorthKent1989

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That at least gives me hope that whoever wins, the Networkers are going.

What will they be replaced with I wonder? I hope they have replaced with class 700s as although they are very uncomfortable in standard class, they are much nicer and look more attractive when seen out and about in service

What’s with the Networkers hate? I think if they were taken proper Care of and given a Deep clean they would be as good as new, if the 700s spent two decades being Neglected believe me they would look it, I loathe the 700s for reasons already stated on several threads regarding them.
 

ComUtoR

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Networkers (specifically the SE units) are old, and out of date. kill'em with fire.
 

BluePenguin

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What’s with the Networkers hate? I think if they were taken proper Care of and given a Deep clean they would be as good as new, if the 700s spent two decades being Neglected believe me they would look it, I loathe the 700s for reasons already stated on several threads regarding them.
They are VERY ugly and make an awful noise whenever they depart a station. The insides are okay, although the seats lack the lumbar support the mainline 375 trains have. They are generally clean although have seen much better days. As they are used on suburban services, they have been damaged over time by careless London commuters.

Admittedly I have only ever used them to travel them between Southeastern London termini but having seen the state of some of them for myself, I stand by my point.

Nowhere else this side of the country has trains as as bad as the Networkers. They look like the same old trains they use up North. Unless they are dumped I wouldn't be surprised if the Networkers were sent up to Manchester or Liverpool to replace pacers.
 

bramling

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They are VERY ugly and make an awful noise whenever they depart a station. The insides are okay, although the seats lack the lumbar support the mainline 375 trains have. They are generally clean although have seen much better days. As they are used on suburban services, they have been damaged over time by careless London commuters.

Admittedly I have only ever used them to travel them between Southeastern London termini but having seen the state of some of them for myself, I stand by my point.

Nowhere else this side of the country has trains as as bad as the Networkers. They look like the same old trains they use up North. Unless they are dumped I wouldn't be surprised if the Networkers were sent up to Manchester or Liverpool to replace pacers.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the rest, unless Manchester or Liverpool gets a load of 3rd-rail electrification that won't happen. There's no way Networkers will be converted to AC for re-use. (Now watch it happen!).
 

Mikey C

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They are VERY ugly and make an awful noise whenever they depart a station. The insides are okay, although the seats lack the lumbar support the mainline 375 trains have. They are generally clean although have seen much better days. As they are used on suburban services, they have been damaged over time by careless London commuters.

Admittedly I have only ever used them to travel them between Southeastern London termini but having seen the state of some of them for myself, I stand by my point.

Nowhere else this side of the country has trains as as bad as the Networkers. They look like the same old trains they use up North. Unless they are dumped I wouldn't be surprised if the Networkers were sent up to Manchester or Liverpool to replace pacers.

Seriously?
 

yorksrob

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Yes I know that it is much quicker via HS1* but not on the mainline which it could be, that is what I was pointing out. The mainline was never intended as the slow route from Ashford at all - it was made into the slower route.

I am glad we both agree on the fare though. The £15.25 ticket I quoted isn't even for the high speed fare which is a lot more!

*To St Pancras. If the final destination is in the south such London Bride Waterloo East, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, Blackfriars or Victoria then the incredibly fast journey becomes slower and more costly as the underground and Thamelink are not free :(

South Eastern were running a non-stop train from Asford to Tonbridge yesterday on account of engineering works near Borough Green. I timed it and it took 22 minutes even with a slow approach to Tonbridge.
 

E-Rail

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South Eastern were running a non-stop train from Asford to Tonbridge yesterday on account of engineering works near Borough Green. I timed it and it took 22 minutes even with a slow approach to Tonbridge.

Prior to HS in 2009, Southeastern ran an hourly fast from Ashford to Charing Cross calling only at Tonbridge and Waterloo East. Journey time was 58 mins up and 56 mins down from memory. Was a great service.
 

NorthKent1989

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The Networkers need TLC and a deep clean and perhaps have them for services that go further out and mainline services, I would like to have seen more electrostars on the inner suburban lines

As for noise, the 700s have a weird ear screeching ufo sound to them, and are perhaps even uglier than the Networkers
 

yorksrob

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Prior to HS in 2009, Southeastern ran an hourly fast from Ashford to Charing Cross calling only at Tonbridge and Waterloo East. Journey time was 58 mins up and 56 mins down from memory. Was a great service.

Indeed. My train was supposed to go to Victoria, however it was terminated short due to an incident in Penge. I would have liked to have seen how long it would have taken to get there.
 

Class465fan

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Seriously. They're not really that bad tbf, and yes they may be a bit scruffy at the moment but is it really that hard to do? I mean GWR and the wales franchise are going to receive some 769s (AKA 319s) and northern receiving more 319s for use until the mid or early 2020s.
 

Class 466

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South Eastern were running a non-stop train from Asford to Tonbridge yesterday on account of engineering works near Borough Green. I timed it and it took 22 minutes even with a slow approach to Tonbridge.
This was actually covering for a lack of HS services rather than the MDE Line.
 

BluePenguin

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Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the rest, unless Manchester or Liverpool gets a load of 3rd-rail electrification that won't happen. There's no way Networkers will be converted to AC for re-use. (Now watch it happen!).
Liverpool does have 3rd rail though on Merseyrail so there would be no need for any of them to be converted to AC at all.
 

BluePenguin

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I thought that side of Ashford station was quiet. Either way it was a pleasing run.
Not a great performance at all. Whilst I sat at Ashford inside a 375 watching the orange men work on the track, a Eurostar sped past on the flyover. I couldn't help but wonder why they didn't just run the HS services over it by joining HS1 just beyond the tunnel near Folkestone instead
 
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