Your suggestions for the next Southeastern franchise

[yorksrob]

Stabbings do make the National news, however that's more as part of the knife crime epidemic that seems to be taking place in London at the moment, rather than related to the South Eastern franchise in particular.

 

[Pumbaa]

Still many non-compliances with all three bids still, so I hear. October announcement is a definite no. The DfT need to decide what they are willing to compromise on, knowing full well the wrong compromise can bring the whole house of franchising down.

 

[uxm]

I see them using the class 701

 

[hwl]

I see them using the class 701

As the bidders are going for Hitachi (Govia and Abellio) or Alstom (Stagecoach) I think not...

 

[uxm]

As the bidders are going for Hitachi (Govia and Abellio) or Alstom (Stagecoach) I think not...

Where do I find this info? Can i find this info for other franchises also?

 

[hwl]

Where do I find this info? Can i find this info for other franchises also?

This is for new metro stock to replace 465, 466 and 376.

It is unusual for potential rolling stock providers to be known at this stage of the tender. If you read the previous 20 pages of this thread you find it mentioned several times...

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Where do I find this info? Can i find this info for other franchises also?

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/16200495.phil-wilson-mp-backs-hitachis-bid-for-new-contract/

Hitachi Rail has bid to build new metro trains with Abellio and Govia.

In their joint letter to the minister at The Department of Transport, the MPs said: "Hitachi’s engagement with Govia has been positive and their re-securing the contract is the train manufacturer’s best opportunity to supply new trains.

"We believe Hitachi’s price to build the new metro trains is competitive - meaning they can deliver value for money without compromising on performance."

The pair said Hitachi would build the majority of the 800 metro trains in the UK at Newton Aycliffe, producing 32 vehicles per month and could safeguard jobs at the site until 2022.

 

[uxm]

is there a way to find out what stock MTR wanted to use if they won the wales and borders?

 

[hwl]

is there a way to find out what stock MTR wanted to use if they won the wales and borders?

Not really unless one of their bid team or advisers happens to be around...
Some was certainly the same as the winning bid but in general the other bids were less adventurous in terms of new stock.

 

[uxm]

Not really unless one of their bid team or advisers happens to be around...
Some was certainly the same as the winning bid but in general the other bids were less adventurous in terms of new stock.

I really hope stagecoach doesn't win, alstom make the most unreliable trains, take juniper and coradia as an example.

 

[Andy25]

I really hope stagecoach doesn't win, alstom make the most unreliable trains, take juniper and coradia as an example.

Bit selective there, both those fleets are over 15 years old. Pendolinos are probably one of the most reliable fleets in the UK.

 

[ComUtoR]

If Stagecoach wins then is it a guarantee that Alstom will build their units or is the tender for the rolling stock separate from the franchise ?

 

[hwl]

If Stagecoach wins then is it a guarantee that Alstom will build their units or is the tender for the rolling stock separate from the franchise ?

The tender includes a partnership for stock, signalling and depot/ stabling. Stagecoach went with Alstom, the others with Hitachi.

 

[ComUtoR]

My thanks.

To be clear(er) If stagecoach win, could Seimens still get the rolling stock tender ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Apparently not.

This is a strange franchise as it seems they have to have a clear rolling stock strategy (and depot / maintenance strategy) in place before they take the franchise; as well as having to be prepared to ‘assist’ Network Rail with the cost of things like signalling equipment in Ashford as Traffic Management.

What a load of cobblers...

 

[BluePenguin]

Why does there need to be a rolling stock strategy? There is nothing wrong with the trains and they don't need replacing. This feels like a wind up to justify the reason of a high fare increase at some point in the future.

The Electrostars were refurbished only recently and the Javelins are only 9 years old and have barely aged. The Networks and anything from before 2000 can go, but other than that I don't get it at all why the rest needs replacing especially since a few carriages have been transferred from Thameslink and Southern.

They should save their money and put it to use making travel on the existing trains more affordable instead, rather than forcing us to pay for new trains that aren't needed. If they want to get some they can, but I don't know about you but I certainly don't want to pay for them through higher fares.

 

[Domh245]

Having a rolling stock strategy and keeping all of the 375/377s and 395s aren't mutually exclusive...

 

[IanKR]

On some trains at Lewisham you get as many coming off as getting on (connecting with the DLR) so that dwell time is definitely needed!

Yep. Particularly at Platform 4 (Down to Blackheath) in the evening peak.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Realistically you could keep the 465/0 and 465/1 fleet as there are some 8 car only routes on Metro; but with a decent bit of work done to them. The Metro Cammell ones need to go, mind.

The 376s don’t fit on the 12 car Railway; so you would need to find at least 90 new 4 car units (or perhaps 30 12 car fixed length ones). The 377/375 hash up wants sorting; work out which routes need to keep the 375s and the 375/9s stuck on a particular section; and then have an add-on order of some 12 car stock from the Metro that just does people movement at peak. Would need First Class mind which adds to the complexity...!

 

[island]

See, I think there’s room for 376s. A 10-coach 2x376 holds more pax than a 12-coach 3x465 because there’s much more standing room. What are less good are single 376s which have all the disadvantages and none of the advantages.

 

[BluePenguin]

I know I have gone on a lot about it in this thread but seeing as all has gone quiet, has there been any update on what is happening to the mainline timetables? Myself and most people in the surrounding areas have been waiting in anticipation for improvement this December

 

[uxm]

I don't understand why the 376 was built in the early 2000s and does not have air conditioning such a mistake.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't understand why the 376 was built in the early 2000s and does not have air conditioning such a mistake.

I believe they were pretty much convinced back then that the air con tech available would not cope with regular door opening on metro routes. Obviously hindsight is wonderful.

 

[FlippyFF]

Realistically you could keep the 465/0 and 465/1 fleet as there are some 8 car only routes on Metro; but with a decent bit of work done to them. The Metro Cammell ones need to go, mind.

The 376s don’t fit on the 12 car Railway; so you would need to find at least 90 new 4 car units (or perhaps 30 12 car fixed length ones). The 377/375 hash up wants sorting; work out which routes need to keep the 375s and the 375/9s stuck on a particular section; and then have an add-on order of some 12 car stock from the Metro that just does people movement at peak. Would need First Class mind which adds to the complexity...!

Isn't first class to be abolished during the next franchise?

Simon

 

[Mikey C]

I don't understand why the 376 was built in the early 2000s and does not have air conditioning such a mistake.

At that stage none of the comparable stock operating on London metro routes would have had air con either, so I suppose it didn't look out of place, especially as the 376s operate alongside the Networkers on the same routes.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Stupid question but why haven’t the 376’s ever been operated on the Orpington-Penge-Victoria or Catford Loop routes (back when SE still operated the line of course) on a regular basis? Surely this would have freed up some Networker stock at the time for longer distanced route, I recall during the winter of 2010/2011 one did pull into Sydenham Hill, the only time I ever seen the 376’s in this neck of the woods.

 

[ComUtoR]

Stupid question but why haven’t the 376’s ever been operated on the Orpington-Penge-Victoria or Catford Loop routes (back when SE still operated the line of course) on a regular basis?

I would hazard a guess that its because they are 5-Cars. On an 8-Car maximum route, running 5s is inefficient. There was also an infrastructure issue iirc. You also create problems with permissive working too. 8 Car platforms, 5 Car berthed and your then screw your platform for additional stock. Same if you ran a 10 into a 12 car platform. You waste permissive working/berthing space.

Surely this would have freed up some Networker stock at the time for longer distanced route,

Due to the lack of toilets you are limited to how long you can run a 376 for.

I recall during the winter of 2010/2011 one did pull into Sydenham Hill, the only time I ever seen the 376’s in this neck of the woods.

They have been in and out of Vic a few times. Not regular and very randomly. I've seen them in Blackfriars, Vic and Tonbridge.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I would hazard a guess that its because they are 5-Cars. On an 8-Car maximum route, running 5s is inefficient. There was also an infrastructure issue iirc. You also create problems with permissive working too. 8 Car platforms, 5 Car berthed and your then screw your platform for additional stock. Same if you ran a 10 into a 12 car platform. You waste permissive working/berthing space.



Due to the lack of toilets you are limited to how long you can run a 376 for.



They have been in and out of Vic a few times. Not regular and very randomly. I've seen them in Blackfriars, Vic and Tonbridge.

Thanks for clearing that up that does make sense.

 

[KingJ]

Due to the lack of toilets you are limited to how long you can run a 376 for.

I don't doubt this (especially coming from you!) but is there a public source on this? The wiki page for the 376s makes a similar mention but it isn't cited.

 

[HH]

Still many non-compliances with all three bids still, so I hear. October announcement is a definite no. The DfT need to decide what they are willing to compromise on, knowing full well the wrong compromise can bring the whole house of franchising down.

This is fake news. I know the guys checking the compliances and they're still working on it. Plus, it's not even true that all three bids had many timetable non-compliances first time round.