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Southeastern - Shunter Driver - Grove Park (31/05/22)

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Firestarter

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DNCharingX

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Goodbye :<
Hello,

Can someone please describe the difference between shunter and mainline driver? From what I know, shunting work is depot only?

What even is shunting work? Would it be a good opportunity for progression to mainline?
 

ComUtoR

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Hello,

Can someone please describe the difference between shunter and mainline driver? From what I know, shunting work is depot only?

The job is advertised for a Shunter Driver. If you were to apply that would be an important consideration.

Shunters - pulls points, takes train numbers, co-ordinates stock movements in the yard.

Drivers - Drive the train and can drive on the mainline.

Shunt Drivers - Drive train movements within a yard

Shunter Driver - A combination of Shunter and Shunt Driver.

Thats a very general overview and other TOCs may have different nomenclature. eg. YMC (yard movements co-ordinator)

Some places will only allow shunts within depot limits but some will permit a shunt to a local station and/or across a running line.

Competencies also differ according to each grade.
 

43066

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The job is advertised for a Shunter Driver. If you were to apply that would be an important consideration.

Shunters - pulls points, takes train numbers, co-ordinates stock movements in the yard.

Drivers - Drive the train and can drive on the mainline.

Shunt Drivers - Drive train movements within a yard

Shunter Driver - A combination of Shunter and Shunt Driver.

Thats a very general overview and other TOCs may have different nomenclature. eg. YMC (yard movements co-ordinator)

Some places will only allow shunts within depot limits but some will permit a shunt to a local station and/or across a running line.

Competencies also differ according to each grade.

A couple more:

“Ground shunter” is also often used to mean a shunter with no driving duties.

Shunt driver/shunter driver are the same thing in my experience and are interchangeable with “depot driver”. As you say this will mean performing movements within a yard and, depending on location, mainline shunts and ECS moves to/from a mainline station.

Would it be a good opportunity for progression to mainline?

Depends on location and the attitude of that TOC to progressing people. It’s not for everyone - lots of nights for one thing.

Personally I’d go straight for mainline trainee if that’s what you want to do as the selection process is very similar and, certainly in your neck of the woods, there are generally far more vacancies for mainline, so perhaps better odds of getting on!
 

ComUtoR

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No I've been told it was to the correct standard

Shunt driver/shunter driver are the same thing in my experience and are interchangeable with “depot driver”. As you say this will mean performing movements within a yard and, depending on location, mainline shunts and ECS moves to/from a mainline station.

Never really been involved with a 'Depot Driver' so I'd be interested to know their duties but

Shunter Driver - A shunter who can drive and a Shunt Driver - someone who drives shunts. At my TOC we had a few Shunt Drivers who literally just drove the shunts in the depot and never pulled a single set of points or took a train number ever.
 

NotMattch

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I'll write a much more thorough reply when I get off shift tonight but most of what's written above this post is correct.

Never really been involved with a 'Depot Driver' so I'd be interested to know their duties but

Shunter Driver - A shunter who can drive and a Shunt Driver - someone who drives shunts. At my TOC we had a few Shunt Drivers who literally just drove the shunts in the depot and never pulled a single set of points or took a train number ever.

Our main job is points and numbers so we defo do them!


Edit: If anyone has any questions about the depot put them below and if I'll try to answer them the best I can!
 
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Aesthetix

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I'll write a much more thorough reply when I get off shift tonight but most of what's written above this post is correct.



Our main job is points and numbers so we defo do them!


Edit: If anyone has any questions about the depot put them below and if I'll try to answer them the best I can!
Hiya,

What are the standard shift times? and how big is the team?

thanks!
 

NotMattch

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Hiya,

What are the standard shift times? and how big is the team?

thanks!
Hopefully this isn't to late, I had a ton of IRL stuff hit me like a brick and I totally forgot to write my long reply up >.<

The shift pattern at grove park is on a 5 week rolling rota as follows:

Week 1 - Monday - Friday Lates 13:30 - 22:00
Sat / Sun off

Week 2 - Monday - Thursday Early 05:30 - 14:00
Friday - Wednesday (6days) off

Week 3 - Thursday - Sunday Nights 21:30 - 06:00 on the Thursday Friday and 18:00 - 06:00 Saturday Sunday
Monday - Thursday Off

Week 4&5 - Friday - Sunday Early (05:30 - 14:00 Friday, 06:00 - 18:00 saturday sunday) & Monday - Wednesday Nights (21:30 - 06:00) ((6 days in a row split 3early/3nights but it counts as 2 seperate weeks))
Thursday - Sunday Off

Go back to Week 1 and start again

The team size is 6 people per shift which works out as 2 people in each yard; however with holidays and whatnot its not unusual to be working in a team of 4, 1 per yard and 1 floater. In some cases we have been down to 3 people but i belive this is why were taking on more staff. Those on the Week 1 shift are the ones that are asked to shift swap to cover work on other teams if needed, I've never seen anyone get told to do a shift swap yet but it is possible if required.

Once your placed with a team you stay with them and all move together
 
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Hopefully this isn't to late, I had a ton of IRL stuff hit me like a brick and I totally forgot to write my long reply up >.<

The shift pattern at grove park is on a 5 week rolling rota as follows:

Week 1 - Monday - Friday Lates 13:30 - 22:00
Sat / Sun off

Week 2 - Monday - Thursday Early 05:30 - 14:00
Friday - Wednesday (6days) off

Week 3 - Thursday - Sunday Nights 21:30 - 06:00 on the Thursday Friday and 18:00 - 06:00 Saturday Sunday
Monday - Thursday Off

Week 4&5 - Friday - Sunday Early (05:30 - 14:00 Friday, 06:00 - 18:00 saturday sunday) & Monday - Wednesday Nights (21:30 - 06:00) ((6 days in a row split 3early/3nights but it counts as 2 seperate weeks))
Thursday - Sunday Off

Go back to Week 1 and start again

The team size is 6 people per shift which works out as 2 people in each yard; however with holidays and whatnot its not unusual to be working in a team of 4, 1 per yard and 1 floater. In some cases we have been down to 3 people but i belive this is why were taking on more staff. Those on the Week 1 shift are the ones that are asked to shift swap to cover work on other teams if needed, I've never seen anyone get told to do a shift swap yet but it is possible if required.

Once your placed with a team you stay with them and all move together
Thanks for the details on the roster, I take you either work this roster or have worked this roster? If so what was the most challenging days/weeks and why? And also the 12hr shifts are they as we refer to them as the death shifts where you work constantly for those 12hrs? How does it work in real life?
 

NotMattch

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Thanks for the details on the roster, I take you either work this roster or have worked this roster? If so what was the most challenging days/weeks and why? And also the 12hr shifts are they as we refer to them as the death shifts where you work constantly for those 12hrs? How does it work in real life?
Currently working it :)

Honestly, it heavily depends on the actual day/week itself as well as what yard you're working. Today for example the "Shed" was extremely busy whereas both the "Downs" and the "Ups" only saw trains in and didn't need to do any shunt work. Tomorrow, it could be completely different.

Generally, the shifts tend to go something along the lines of:

Weekday Earlies - Turn up, finish seeing the trains out of the yards usually from 5:45 until around 6 or 7 depending on the yard, come back and get an arrival sheet and then be back in whatever yard for the first train which varies from around 8 to 9 depending on the yard. The shed tends to be the busiest as it has all the rush hour stock that came up from Dover/Ramsgate/Ashford (Almost entirely 375s) coming in one after another, these tend to need either splitting up depending on what unit needs to finish where as well as Tanking (Water refill) and CET (toilets emptied), both the Tanking and CETs are done by the cleaning staff, we're just required to move the units as needed. That being said, some days all the units will come in, sit there, and go back out without us even touching them.
The UPs and Downs are very day-to-day dependent as they'll take all the "Metro" stock (networkers / 376s) which normally end up going out the same way they came in but, networkers especially, sometimes require re-forming.

Weekday Lates - Tend to be the "easiest", you come in, see out the afternoon rush hour departures, come back and wait until they start arriving back in the evening and go home whilst they're still coming back. There's not usually a great deal of shunt work as most units are back out working; this shift is the one that does most of the "yard-to-yard" work (I.e. Moving a train from the Downs to the Shed or Ups to the Downs etc) so they're all in place for the night shift. Due to this, if they need cover on the early or night shifts, this team will be the one that's asked first or be given a shift swap if no one offers, however, I've never yet seen anyone have a forced shift change, someone always agrees to change over.

Weekday Nights - The busiest by far, once you come in you'll be seeing in the remainder of the trains and then forming them for the next day's service, Friday is typically the worst as there's a lot of variation (pretty much getting rid of every 2 car networker) between a Friday run and a weekend run. Usually a few CETs as well as carrying out all the train preps for the next day as required, the load is split between us and a prep driver but if anything goes wrong, this is the shift that'll deal with it. Say a PA system isn't working, you'll need to re-form that train to "box in" the cab that isn't working properly on top of everything else. There are also some yard-to-yard shunts as required if units come in the wrong places. You'll then start seeing trains back out from 4 am onwards.


Weekend Earlies - Saturday - Honestly, it's a sleeper shift. Everything is sent out by the Friday Night turn and there's 99% of the time, never anything else to go out. You'll have a few shunts to do roughly mid-morning to set up for the Sunday service but as everything has already gone there isn't that much to do. This shift will get the vast majority of stock and engineering moves as Slade Green will send a unit to us that's just had an exam and take another one away, this doesn't involve much for us apart from giving a slot and taking numbers
Sunday - Same as above although there is more shunting during the day as we'll have more units left over.

Weekend Nights - Not that different from a Weekday Night apart from you coming in earlier.

With Weekends, either Early or Night, if there are any Engineering blocks that require the depot to be isolated, we're kept on hand as required but this usually ends up in you coming into work, sitting there for 12 hours and then going home again without once going into a yard.


Across all shifts, there are normally plenty of downtimes for us to take our breaks without needing to worry about it too much, some days we'll take them at different times than usual but I've never had a day where I've had to stop and say "I need to take my break". Once you are out in a yard however you are working flat out until you come back so time does pass quickly
 

Acey

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Currently working it :)

Honestly, it heavily depends on the actual day/week itself as well as what yard you're working. Today for example the "Shed" was extremely busy whereas both the "Downs" and the "Ups" only saw trains in and didn't need to do any shunt work. Tomorrow, it could be completely different.

Generally, the shifts tend to go something along the lines of:

Weekday Earlies - Turn up, finish seeing the trains out of the yards usually from 5:45 until around 6 or 7 depending on the yard, come back and get an arrival sheet and then be back in whatever yard for the first train which varies from around 8 to 9 depending on the yard. The shed tends to be the busiest as it has all the rush hour stock that came up from Dover/Ramsgate/Ashford (Almost entirely 375s) coming in one after another, these tend to need either splitting up depending on what unit needs to finish where as well as Tanking (Water refill) and CET (toilets emptied), both the Tanking and CETs are done by the cleaning staff, we're just required to move the units as needed. That being said, some days all the units will come in, sit there, and go back out without us even touching them.
The UPs and Downs are very day-to-day dependent as they'll take all the "Metro" stock (networkers / 376s) which normally end up going out the same way they came in but, networkers especially, sometimes require re-forming.

Weekday Lates - Tend to be the "easiest", you come in, see out the afternoon rush hour departures, come back and wait until they start arriving back in the evening and go home whilst they're still coming back. There's not usually a great deal of shunt work as most units are back out working; this shift is the one that does most of the "yard-to-yard" work (I.e. Moving a train from the Downs to the Shed or Ups to the Downs etc) so they're all in place for the night shift. Due to this, if they need cover on the early or night shifts, this team will be the one that's asked first or be given a shift swap if no one offers, however, I've never yet seen anyone have a forced shift change, someone always agrees to change over.

Weekday Nights - The busiest by far, once you come in you'll be seeing in the remainder of the trains and then forming them for the next day's service, Friday is typically the worst as there's a lot of variation (pretty much getting rid of every 2 car networker) between a Friday run and a weekend run. Usually a few CETs as well as carrying out all the train preps for the next day as required, the load is split between us and a prep driver but if anything goes wrong, this is the shift that'll deal with it. Say a PA system isn't working, you'll need to re-form that train to "box in" the cab that isn't working properly on top of everything else. There are also some yard-to-yard shunts as required if units come in the wrong places. You'll then start seeing trains back out from 4 am onwards.


Weekend Earlies - Saturday - Honestly, it's a sleeper shift. Everything is sent out by the Friday Night turn and there's 99% of the time, never anything else to go out. You'll have a few shunts to do roughly mid-morning to set up for the Sunday service but as everything has already gone there isn't that much to do. This shift will get the vast majority of stock and engineering moves as Slade Green will send a unit to us that's just had an exam and take another one away, this doesn't involve much for us apart from giving a slot and taking numbers
Sunday - Same as above although there is more shunting during the day as we'll have more units left over.

Weekend Nights - Not that different from a Weekday Night apart from you coming in earlier.

With Weekends, either Early or Night, if there are any Engineering blocks that require the depot to be isolated, we're kept on hand as required but this usually ends up in you coming into work, sitting there for 12 hours and then going home again without once going into a yard.


Across all shifts, there are normally plenty of downtimes for us to take our breaks without needing to worry about it too much, some days we'll take them at different times than usual but I've never had a day where I've had to stop and say "I need to take my break". Once you are out in a yard however you are working flat out until you come back so time does pass quickly
Perfectly encapsulated my time as a Shunter Driver at Grove Park although didn't mention how the various Depot Co Ordinators can make a good or bad day !
 

NotMattch

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Perfectly encapsulated my time as a Shunter Driver at Grove Park although didn't mention how the various Depot Co Ordinators can make a good or bad day !
I knew I'd forget something as obvious as that when you deal with it every day ahaha!

So far, there are only 2 that are particularly "bad" at the moment, but there's definitely a difference depending on who you have!
 

Acey

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I knew I'd forget something as obvious as that when you deal with it every day ahaha!

So far, there are only 2 that are particularly "bad" at the moment, but there's definitely a difference depending on who you have!
Indeed,most were pretty good but occasionally had their bad days ,there again I spent most of my time ( nights and early ) down the shed where it seemed ( to me ) most of the work was done ( I'm going back 12 years or so,things may have changed of course ) but I did enjoy the job ,when the Depot lost it's main-line work I was glad to be taken off Driving due to ill-health and was stuck in the shunt-link !
 

NotMattch

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Indeed,most were pretty good but occasionally had their bad days ,there again I spent most of my time ( nights and early ) down the shed where it seemed ( to me ) most of the work was done ( I'm going back 12 years or so,things may have changed of course ) but I did enjoy the job ,when the Depot lost it's main-line work I was glad to be taken off Driving due to ill-health and was stuck in the shunt-link !

I think now across the entire 5 week period it's fairly spread out, but the shed is definitely still the busiest one of the three during the day. Night work, it seems to be more the downs at the moment that ends up being the busiest. The ups is really random now, sometimes nothing happens, the next day you've got to shunt every single road, the day after, nothing!
 

Railwaygarry

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Curious as to if anyone has heard anything more about this?
Hi, i have an upcoming Shunter Driver assessment for southeastern based at grove park . Just wondering will I need to complete the Virtual search exercise as part of the psychometric testing. I completed and passed the train driver assessment with GTR last year.
 
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