Southeastern upcoming refurbs....

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FlippyFF

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Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum and I've missed it.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co....newsletter/onboard_autumnwinter2020.pdf?la=en

Modifications to our existing train fleet:
Our High Speed (Class 395 ‘Javelin’) fleet will have an interior refresh beginning in May 2021 including:
  • new seat covers and seat foam
  • USB charging points
  • refreshed table tops
  • grab rails repainted.
The fleet will also be fitted with energy metering and regenerative braking for overhead power.

Our Mainline (Class 375) fleet will have USB charging points, LED lighting and upgraded CCTV. Our Class 377 fleet will also be receiving LED lighting.

Our Metro (‘Networker’) fleet will have technical modifications to improve reliability.

Simon
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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I think it’s appalling that they choose to refurbish those and not the revolting Networkers, which are in a repulsive state even worse than SWRs 458s. I only hope this means they’ll be going soon.
 
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I think it’s appalling that they choose to refurbish those and not the revolting Networkers, which are in a repulsive state even worse than SWRs 458s. I only hope this means they’ll be going soon.
I'd say they've been in a repulsive state since 1996 mostly as a result of the routes they ply, it's no wonder nobody wants to spend any real money on the interiors.
Yes the Connex era was particularly bad but they have always been shabby.
 

ComUtoR

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I think it’s appalling that they choose to refurbish those and not the revolting Networkers, which are in a repulsive state even worse than SWRs 458s. I only hope this means they’ll be going soon.

Networkers have been refreshed before and; to be quite frank. Maybe people should stop treating them like a skip. Quite a few will be going soon™ so you will get your wish.
 

DustyBin

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Networkers have been refreshed before and; to be quite frank. Maybe people should stop treating them like a skip. Quite a few will be going soon™ so you will get your wish.

Is that as a result of some routes being downgraded to 707s? Do we know which routes will be affected?
 

ComUtoR

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Is that as a result of some routes being downgraded to 707s? Do we know which routes will be affected?

The 707s will be a huge upgrade. Yes, the routes affected are known.
 

DustyBin

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The 707s will be a huge upgrade. Yes, the routes affected are known.

Not from a passenger comfort perspective they won’t be, they’re awful (you may disagree of course). As soon as they’re dirty and vandalised (won’t take long!) they’ll not feel like an upgrade at all....
 

londonteacher

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This thread isn't about the 707s, but if you don't like them don't use them.

It's good to refurbishment happening on SE stock and I would hope that the 465/466 at least get a deep clean.
 

ComUtoR

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Not from a passenger comfort perspective they won’t be

Firstly, as a SE passenger, nothing about Networkers is pleasurable. They are awful trains and I'll be happy when they are consigned to history. I'm interested in why you say that 707s wouldn't be an upgrade. Other than the contentious seats and lack of toilets (Why oh Why SE !!) I can't see much of an issue.
 

Timmyd

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Honestly don’t get the hate for the Networkers. Living in a triangle of SouthEastern, Southern and Thameslink services, I’d pick a Networker ahead of a 700 and a Southern 455 any day of the week (the Southern 377s are by far the best trains on south London suburban services). The networkers have been improved a lot with the PDM mods - the previous loos were disgusting but these always seem clean and tidy - warmer and more comfortable than a 700 and warmer and cleaner than the 455s. Sure a deep clean wouldnt go miss and the overall ambience is a bit gloomy (except in the /9s) but they do a decent job.
 

Chiltern006

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I'm surprised the 377s aren't getting a refresh, seat covers and grab rails at least
 

DustyBin

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Firstly, as a SE passenger, nothing about Networkers is pleasurable. They are awful trains and I'll be happy when they are consigned to history. I'm interested in why you say that 707s wouldn't be an upgrade. Other than the contentious seats and lack of toilets (Why oh Why SE !!) I can't see much of an issue.

It’s interesting how we can see things so differently (I’m only an occasional SE passenger). I actually find the Networkers quite pleasant to travel on. They have decent seats, excellent seat/window alignment, an excellent ride (it really is very good), opening windows, reasonable acceleration.... They’re just a bit neglected! I’d love to see them get a decent internal refurb. I appreciate sounding good (for an EMU) is trivial so I won’t use that as an argument.

What I will say is they’re not great on the long distance routes they now find themselves on, which is why they built 365s....

This thread isn't about the 707s, but if you don't like them don't use them.

It's good to refurbishment happening on SE stock and I would hope that the 465/466 at least get a deep clean.

I’ll try and avoid them but in all seriousness that’s not always an option is it? Plus I’m not sure avoiding rail travel should be encouraged.

I’ve voted with my feet over the Azumas as I find the seats in them genuinely intolerable. I now fly up to Scotland a couple of times a month.
 
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FOH

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In the local area I live the Networkers are definitely the best out of the choice I have, though I like the 376s too - I just wish the lighting was brighter.
 

ComUtoR

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Cheers for the reply @DustyBin I've been on 700s and I just love the open interior and the clean lighting. With proper aircon (rather than just an open window) they give you decent air flow and quality rather than a horrible breeze across my head (until somone gets angry and slams it shut) Networkers feel cramped and your squished up against each other. Granted 2+2 seating doesn't lend well to capacity (seating only) but it gives you room when sitting next to someone. 707s meet the new standards for cubic capacity per passenger. I prefer walkthrough units and the benefits of shuffling passengers or simply having the ability to move away from someone makes is a lot safer. WiFi, seat plugs are more little ticks for being an upgrade. I'm looking forward to travelling on them.

The whole window alignment thing kinda creeps me out. I get trains purely for practical reasons so having a window aligned to my seat is meaningless. Motor sound I haven't given much thought but the spaceship sound a 700 makes is pretty unique and I can see why people will love it or hate it. I do understand the more passion driven elements and I fully appreciate people going out and enjoying trains and travel from a pure pleasure perspective. My pleasure comes from the practical.

I wish there was a balance between the two but train design comes more from the technical and safety requirements. Tenuously on topic.... A 'Refresh' is just a clean and polish and tbh should be built into the lifecycle of every unit.

On a technical basis I haven't checked the accelleration between the two but I'd love to see them from a side by side race out of London Bridge. Not sure who'd win. However, 707s are certainly fast and have a higher top speed.
 

DustyBin

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Cheers for the reply @DustyBin I've been on 700s and I just love the open interior and the clean lighting. With proper aircon (rather than just an open window) they give you decent air flow and quality rather than a horrible breeze across my head (until somone gets angry and slams it shut) Networkers feel cramped and your squished up against each other. Granted 2+2 seating doesn't lend well to capacity (seating only) but it gives you room when sitting next to someone. 707s meet the new standards for cubic capacity per passenger. I prefer walkthrough units and the benefits of shuffling passengers or simply having the ability to move away from someone makes is a lot safer. WiFi, seat plugs are more little ticks for being an upgrade. I'm looking forward to travelling on them.

The whole window alignment thing kinda creeps me out. I get trains purely for practical reasons so having a window aligned to my seat is meaningless. Motor sound I haven't given much thought but the spaceship sound a 700 makes is pretty unique and I can see why people will love it or hate it. I do understand the more passion driven elements and I fully appreciate people going out and enjoying trains and travel from a pure pleasure perspective. My pleasure comes from the practical.

I wish there was a balance between the two but train design comes more from the technical and safety requirements. Tenuously on topic.... A 'Refresh' is just a clean and polish and tbh should be built into the lifecycle of every unit.

On a technical basis I haven't checked the accelleration between the two but I'd love to see them from a side by side race out of London Bridge. Not sure who'd win. However, 707s are certainly fast and have a higher top speed.

It’s personal preference I suppose which is fine (although the seats are widely condemned). I really dislike the interior ‘ambience’ of the Desiro City’s, I find it rather clinical (it genuinely reminds me of being in a CT scanner room!). The 707s will be better for standing passengers during rush hour I expect and a bit quicker accelerating so they do have some advantages. And I expect them to be reliable.

Being able to see out of a window is a must for me, I’m maybe a bit odd in that respect!
 

365 Networker

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Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum and I've missed it.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co....newsletter/onboard_autumnwinter2020.pdf?la=en



Simon
I noticed it said 'Our Metro (‘Networker’) fleet will have technical modifications to improve reliability'. This doesn't mean that the Alsthom 465s will loose there motor sounds - similar to the BREL 465s? It would be a shame, as the motor sounds on the Alsthom 465s is one of my favourite, although I think a 365 sounds even better.
 

DustyBin

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I noticed it said 'Our Metro (‘Networker’) fleet will have technical modifications to improve reliability'. This doesn't mean that the Alsthom 465s will loose there motor sounds - similar to the BREL 465s? It would be a shame, as the motor sounds on the Alsthom 465s is one of my favourite, although I think a 365 sounds even better.

323s for the ‘GTO thyristor sound effects’ win!

Networker 0.98m/s (Source)
707 0.85ms (Source)

Thanks, about what I would have expected and both quite respectable really.

Edit: Sorry I thought the 707s would have been quicker, I clearly didn’t look properly there! Although the 707s have a lower power to weight ratio than the 700s I believe.
 
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MatthewRead

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Why aren't the 376's getting a refurb they haven't changed since they first entered service nearly 17 years ago.
 

CeeJ

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Big push for USB ports, which is positive - though the tech world is quite rapidly moving to USB-C (for both mobile and laptops), wish train operators would try to be ahead of the curve for once...

It'll be nice to see what they do to the Javelins. Don't think here's much you can do with Networkers save for major refurbishment (i.e. adding air conditioning), which is very unlikely considering the length of time they are supposed to have left.
 

Horizon22

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It’s personal preference I suppose which is fine (although the seats are widely condemned). I really dislike the interior ‘ambience’ of the Desiro City’s, I find it rather clinical (it genuinely reminds me of being in a CT scanner room!). The 707s will be better for standing passengers during rush hour I expect and a bit quicker accelerating so they do have some advantages. And I expect them to be reliable.

Being able to see out of a window is a must for me, I’m maybe a bit odd in that respect!

Frankly most of Southeastern's commuters won't care considering most of them are a) barely on it for 40 mins and b) actually want space to breathe. This is all pre-Covid of course.
 

DustyBin

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Big push for USB ports, which is positive - though the tech world is quite rapidly moving to USB-C (for both mobile and laptops), wish train operators would try to be ahead of the curve for once...

It'll be nice to see what they do to the Javelins. Don't think here's much you can do with Networkers save for major refurbishment (i.e. adding air conditioning), which is very unlikely considering the length of time they are supposed to have left.

We have USB-C ports in our plug sockets around the house (as well as ordinary USB ports) and to be honest I was starting to think they’d never get used! What is the advantage of them over USB? Apologies if that appears to be a silly question, I’m not really clued up in this area!
 

ComUtoR

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USB-C is becoming more universal so it will fit the majority of devices rather than continually needing an adaptor. It will charge faster, its more robust, it's user firendly because it can be stuck in rightside up and upsidedown, and because of its size it takes up a lot less space.

Tbh atm with USB-C a lot of the cables have a usb on one end anyway. Stick a standard plug with a usb socket and then plug in whichever charging cable you need. If it was a USB-C socket we would laud them for using current technology but then lament them for not providing technology everyone could use. It should be easy enough to provide both.
 

DustyBin

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USB-C is becoming more universal so it will fit the majority of devices rather than continually needing an adaptor. It will charge faster, its more robust, it's user firendly because it can be stuck in rightside up and upsidedown, and because of its size it takes up a lot less space.

Tbh atm with USB-C a lot of the cables have a usb on one end anyway. Stick a standard plug with a usb socket and then plug in whichever charging cable you need. If it was a USB-C socket we would laud them for using current technology but then lament them for not providing technology everyone could use. It should be easy enough to provide both.

Thanks. Our plug sockets take a mains plug (obviously), USB and USB-C so we appear to be future proofed! I recently got an iPhone 11 which I thought was at the cutting edge of technology, but it doesn’t have a USB-C cable so maybe not!
 

221101 Voyager

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What is going on with 376s are they being replaced by 707s or will the 376s have some work done?

if I’ve missed something about 376s I apologise.
 

chubs

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I recently got an iPhone 11 which I thought was at the cutting edge of technology, but it doesn’t have a USB-C cable so maybe not!

That's just Apple for you, any other phone manufacturer has USB C as standard. Same for most Laptops (except maybe very budget ones).
 

londonteacher

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What is going on with 376s are they being replaced by 707s or will the 376s have some work done?

if I’ve missed something about 376s I apologise
Nothing is confirmed as of yet, at least not publicly. I'm sure plans are in place at Southeastern though.
 
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