Southeastern upcoming refurbs....

[Chiltern006]

376s are well overdue their mid life refurb, so there is probably plans to refurb them or just get rid of em. we will see

 

[CeeJ]

Thanks. Our plug sockets take a mains plug (obviously), USB and USB-C so we appear to be future proofed! I recently got an iPhone 11 which I thought was at the cutting edge of technology, but it doesn’t have a USB-C cable so maybe not!

Definitely future-proofed! The iPhone 12 comes with a USB-C on one end (and Lightning on the other), and all their laptops come with USB-C both ends. Pretty cool to have them built into your sockets though, let's hope the TOCs start thinking about the benefits!

 

[Doomotron]

The 395s are tatty but acceptable. The 465s and 376s... aren't.

 

[Energy]

376s are well overdue their mid life refurb, so there is probably plans to refurb them or just get rid of em. we will see

I think it depends on the next franchise, the 376s are a smaller fleet so we may see them go as part of the 465 replacement. It would be useful if they could be modified to have a gangway, looking at the windows it could be done.

 

[ComUtoR]

It would be useful if they could be modified to have a gangway, looking at the windows it could be done.

It would take a complete redesign of the entire cab. I'm not sure if that would be cost effective or provide any real benefit.

 

[221101 Voyager]

It would take a complete redesign of the entire cab. I'm not sure if that would be cost effective or provide any real benefit.

Also no toilets and no air conditioning, so the units may have a shorter life than other electrostars as a result.

376s must be the newest mainline units without air con?

 

[Chiltern006]

can see SE order more 707s if they work well, and to have a common metro fleet, once the new "franchise" is in

I'm surprised the 377s won't be getting a refurbishment up to the standard of the 375s though

 

[ScottGallagher]

Also no toilets and no air conditioning, so the units may have a shorter life than other electrostars as a result.

376s must be the newest mainline units without air con?

All those years ago when they were introduced I used to buy RAIL I remember it being said the lack of air con was due to the frequent stops on the routes they would work. That could well be code for Connex or the ROSCO didn't want to pay for it.

 

[Gellico]

Also no toilets and no air conditioning, so the units may have a shorter life than other electrostars as a result.

376s must be the newest mainline units without air con?

The only units ordered in privatisation without it. Cheapest spec Connex could get.

 

[43096]

The only units ordered in privatisation without it.

Not true, the ScotRail 334s were built without aircon.

 

[Mikey C]

I quite like the Networkers, for their time they were a decent effort, with more care taken with their interiors than the BR era 455, 319 etc. The plug doors, and plentiful windows mean they're quite airy

Bizarre that we still don't know what the plan is for the 707s, and how they affect the existing 465s, 466s and 376s. Maybe there is still uncertainty, hence the lack of TLC the existing Metro stock is getting...

 

[bramling]

The only units ordered in privatisation without it. Cheapest spec Connex could get.

To be fair, Connex can’t really be criticised for their new trains. The rest of the Electrostars had a pretty luxurious specification.

ISTR the lack of air conditioning was more to do with a concern that it wouldn’t work effectively on an inner-suburban train.

 

[221101 Voyager]

can see SE order more 707s if they work well, and to have a common metro fleet, once the new "franchise" is in

I'm surprised the 377s won't be getting a refurbishment up to the standard of the 375s though

Isn‘t the Desiro City manufacturing line shut now? They haven’t had any orders from the UK for a while now.

Also seen as SE is predominantly Electrostar, wouldn’t they just order Aventras instead?

Another thing how come Networkers/376s haven’t been repainted/vinyl for a long time/at all (for 376s)?

All those years ago when they were introduced I used to buy RAIL I remember it being said the lack of air con was due to the frequent stops on the routes they would work. That could well be code for Connex or the ROSCO didn't want to pay for it.

I suppose it was the cheapest possible spec really.

I quite like the Networkers, for their time they were a decent effort, with more care taken with their interiors than the BR era 455, 319 etc. The plug doors, and plentiful windows mean they're quite airy

Bizarre that we still don't know what the plan is for the 707s, and how they affect the existing 465s, 466s and 376s. Maybe there is still uncertainty, hence the lack of TLC the existing Metro stock is getting...

I reckon they may replace 465s, 466s and 376s given time. Probably with aventras. Although I think the metro fleet may have some cosmetic work done depending on how much longer they will stay for.

 

[Energy]

All those years ago when they were introduced I used to buy RAIL I remember it being said the lack of air con was due to the frequent stops on the routes they would work. That could well be code for Connex or the ROSCO didn't want to pay for it.

Given LUs specification of air conditioning I would imagine its more cost.

 

[Doomotron]

Maybe AT100s will be used for a new Metro fleet considering SE's relationship with Hitachi.

Anyway, I doubt the 376s will be going anywhere soon, they're Electrostars after all, and the Networkers are a lot more of a hassle for Southeastern, so if any trains are going to be replaced by the 707s, it will be them. Why replace a new-ish reliable fleet when you could replace an old, unreliable one?

 

[AverageTD]

Networker 0.98m/s (Source)
707 0.85ms (Source)

Careful how those stats are noted. 707 shows approx acceleration while the 465 has maximum acceleration. ROSCOs, TOCs and manufacturers all seem to publish different ways of of getting figures so it's quite hard to get a concrete stat.

 

[FR510]

What is going on with 376s are they being replaced by 707s or will the 376s have some work done?

if I’ve missed something about 376s I apologise.

I did hear that once the 707s are in service with SE, the 376s will be released a couple at a time for a full refurb. But time will tell.

 

[RealTrains07]

Bare in mind it has been said beofre the 707s are an enhancement of the existing feet to provide capacity and wont be replacing any existing stock.

465s and 466s are good enough for another 4 years at least.

If anything should go, its the 376s

 

[FlippyFF]

Maybe AT100s will be used for a new Metro fleet considering SE's relationship with Hitachi.

Thinks back to the two Scotrail 385s being delivered to Hitachi at Ashford....

 

[221101 Voyager]

I did hear that once the 707s are in service with SE, the 376s will be released a couple at a time for a full refurb. But time will tell.

Hmm, interesting that.
I wonder if they will repaint them SE dark blue, I also wonder what will they do interior wise, as they have funny seats in them.

Bare in mind it has been said beofre the 707s are an enhancement of the existing feet to provide capacity and wont be replacing any existing stock.

465s and 466s are good enough for another 4 years at least.

If anything should go, its the 376s

376s are much newer though...

Networkers are scruffy and either need cosmetic work done in addition to planned relaibility works or they need to go.

 

[Chiltern006]

yeah, if anything goes it'll be the 465s, most probably the /2s and the 466s as a) they are in a sorry state and b) the carriage numbers roughly match up with the 707s and c) the 466s can't run on their own anyways

 

[221101 Voyager]

yeah, if anything goes it'll be the 465s, most probably the /2s and the 466s as a) they are in a sorry state and b) the carriage numbers roughly match up with the 707s and c) the 466s can't run on their own anyways

Why can't 466s run on their own?

It is that the capacity is so little it's not worth running one 466 alone?

 

[Jturner98]

Why can't 466s run on their own?

It is that the capacity is so little it's not worth running one 466 alone?

The class 466 cannot run on their own because they are not fully PRM compliant. However, I think a few still run on their own on the Bromley North line.

 

[py_megapixel]

The class 466 cannot run on their own because they are not fully PRM compliant. However, I think a few still run on their own on the Bromley North line.

In what way are they non-compliant?

 

[Domh245]

In what way are they non-compliant?

The main one is that they've not got a universal toilet, but there's quite a few points on the list (though I think most of the others are also issues on the 465s)

 

[RealTrains07]

Hmm, interesting that.
I wonder if they will repaint them SE dark blue, I also wonder what will they do interior wise, as they have funny seats in them.


376s are much newer though...

Networkers are scruffy and either need cosmetic work done in addition to planned relaibility works or they need to go.

Which return to the fact that the networkers are not even 30 years old yet. They still have a good amount of life left in them. Hopefully the minor works done on them will be good enough. They were refurbished last 7 years ago. Thats better than some trains operators

 

[Mikey C]

The main one is that they've not got a universal toilet, but there's quite a few points on the list (though I think most of the others are also issues on the 465s)

Which shows the nonsense of the legislation considering that the 707s don't even have a toilet!

 

[Aictos]

Which shows the nonsense of the legislation considering that the 707s don't even have a toilet!

But toilets can be retro fitted to the Class 707s and besides they tick all the other requirements of the legislation which is the important thing to remember.

 

[Class465pacer]

Which return to the fact that the networkers are not even 30 years old yet. They still have a good amount of life left in them. Hopefully the minor works done on them will be good enough. They were refurbished last 7 years ago. Thats better than some trains operators

Some networkers are now 30 years old. In addition, they’ve never really had a refurbishment, just several "refreshes"

 

[RealTrains07]

Some networkers are now 30 years old. In addition, they’ve never really had a refurbishment, just several "refreshes"

The earliest 465 networkers were in service in 1992 though right? Which means they would be only 29 years old. They still have at least 5 - 10 years.

The same could be said about many trains though. It depends what people count as a full refurbishment?