Southeastern's "Olympic" timetable

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Bungle73

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Why the hell is the last direct train from Stratford International to Faversham on Saturday night 9:28pm (at least until 1:30am), when there's a big event (the athletics) finishing at 9:30pm? I'm attending the event and need to get back to Sittingbourne and this is going to make getting home akward for me. Why so early?? What about people who are just enjoying an evening out in London and want to go home?
 
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calc7

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Stock/paths being used to ferry people back to central London?
 

John55

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Stock/paths being used to ferry people back to central London?

The timetable shows 8 trains per hour 20 mins each way to Ebbsfleet from St Pancras using a total of 16 units. So no shortage of trains

I wonder if the bigger issue is resourcing train crews for the all day intensive service for 2.5 weeks continuously.
 

Bungle73

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So what's the point of having an "Olympic" timetable when they can't provide services when people need them? They took away half our St. Pancras trains to run the Olympic timetable and now people living in north Kent can't even make use of it. It's like we don't matter.
 

hluraven

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now people living in north Kent can't even make use of it. It's like we don't matter.

In the grand scheme of things, you don't.

I'm not saying things couldn't be done differently or better, but North Kent is not the focus for these 2 weeks, getting as many people as possible to and from the Olympics to London is the priority. Given the status as the only part of the UK with domestic High Speed services at all other times, I think a two-week sacrifice from North Kent isn't that unreasonable.
 

Bungle73

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In the grand scheme of things, you don't.

I'm not saying things couldn't be done differently or better, but North Kent is not the focus for these 2 weeks, getting as many people as possible to and from the Olympics to London is the priority. Given the status as the only part of the UK with domestic High Speed services at all other times, I think a two-week sacrifice from North Kent isn't that unreasonable.

The "High Speed" service where the journey time isn't that much shorter than the traditional services? People in other parts of the country aren't missing much.

And how are people in north Kent supposed to get home if there are no trains?
 

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I can sympathise, however it has been known since before the High Speed service started that the trains would be used for a shuttle service to St Pancras during the Olympic fortnight. From 2315 until about 0115 this runs every 5 minutes, so this will be why there are no trains to Kent during this time.

Traveline South East recommends taking the Central line to Mile End for the District to Victoria to get to Sittingbourne, however I've worked out that it's possible to improve on this by taking the shuttle the other way to Ebbsfleet, then using the Fastrack B bus service (which increases frequency to every 10 mins after midnight) to Swanscombe to join SE trains towards Chatham there.
 

hluraven

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And how are people in north Kent supposed to get home if there are no trains?

There is 2 tph from Victoria throughout the evening, so you go that way, the same way as Olympic spectators from most of the country that need to interchange in London to go home. The frequent Javelin service makes that possible for everyone in the country, rather than being solely for the benefit of North Kent.

EDIT: Or the alternative D1009 suggests using changes from Ebbsfleet
 

Bungle73

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I can sympathise, however it has been known since before the High Speed service started that the trains would be used for a shuttle service to St Pancras during the Olympic fortnight. From 2315 until about 0115 this runs every 5 minutes, so this will be why there are no trains to Kent during this time.

Traveline South East recommends taking the Central line to Mile End for the District to Victoria to get to Sittingbourne, however I've worked out that it's possible to improve on this by taking the shuttle the other way to Ebbsfleet, then using the Fastrack B bus service (which increases frequency to every 10 mins after midnight) to Swanscombe to join SE trains towards Chatham there.
Thanks. I was thinking of catching a train to St. Pancras, then the Victoria Line to Victoria, then a train from there, which would mean fewer changes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There is 2 tph from Victoria throughout the evening, so you go that way, the same way as Olympic spectators from most of the country that need to interchange in London to go home. The frequent Javelin service makes that possible for everyone in the country, rather than being solely for the benefit of North Kent.

EDIT: Or the alternative D1009 suggests using changes from Ebbsfleet

I'm sure the other people in the country would soon start complaining if the trains to their stations were completely cancelled to benefit other people.

Is there really a need to have trains to central London every five minutes after 11.15pm when the biggest event (ie the athletics) finishes at 9:30pm?
 
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asylumxl

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They took away half our St. Pancras trains to run the Olympic timetable and now people living in north Kent can't even make use of it. It's like we don't matter.

This is my take on the subject...

You don't matter. None of the citizens of London or the SE do.

All that matters to the organisers is impressing the tourists, foreign athletes and diplomats. Your life should be put on hold, your plans canceled, postponed or disrupted all for the benefit of the aforementioned people.

And who picks up the bill for the Olympics? Will the average British citizen benefit from it?

I think we all know the answer.
 

Bungle73

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The thing is I am travelling to and from the Olympics, the very event the timetable is supposed to be designed around. That's what irks me.

It's not like there's no demand. The train I caught on late Monday morning to the Olympics was quite full.
 

tbtc

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To give a bit of background, what's the normal (non-Olympic) distribution of services from Stratford International to Faversham on Saturday nights after half nine?
 

Bungle73

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To give a bit of background, what's the normal (non-Olympic) distribution of services from Stratford International to Faversham on Saturday nights after half nine?

One every half an hour, the same as during the day.
 
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John55

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I can sympathise, however it has been known since before the High Speed service started that the trains would be used for a shuttle service to St Pancras during the Olympic fortnight. From 2315 until about 0115 this runs every 5 minutes, so this will be why there are no trains to Kent during this time.

I ought to know better than quote without checking. Out of interest does anyone know how busy these late night trains are? When I used this service yesterday (lunchtime and tea time) it wasn't particularly busy in the usual way, lots of people at the barrier end of the units from St P but empty coaches in the middle/front. The thing which did slightly surprise me was the significant constant loadings on the shuttle from St Pancras throughout the afternoon. I had vaguely expected big peaks and throughs but this did not seem to be the case. Presumably the organisers planned the events at the venues to manage this during the day.

I'm sure the other people in the country would soon start complaining if the trains to their stations were completely cancelled to benefit other people.

Yes they do when it happens but most people seem to accept some inconvenience to allow these events to take place.

This is my take on the subject...

You don't matter. None of the citizens of London or the SE do.

All that matters to the organisers is impressing the tourists, foreign athletes and diplomats. Your life should be put on hold, your plans canceled, postponed or disrupted all for the benefit of the aforementioned people.

And who picks up the bill for the Olympics? Will the average British citizen benefit from it?

I think we all know the answer.

As a resident of London who lives within 3 miles of 4 venues all I can say is what inconvenience? My train service is better. My main bus route has gone from single to double deckers so I don't have to stand on the way back from the station. The roads are clearer, long may the Olympics continue!
 

asylumxl

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As a resident of London who lives within 3 miles of 4 venues all I can say is what inconvenience? My train service is better. My main bus route has gone from single to double deckers so I don't have to stand on the way back from the station. The roads are clearer, long may the Olympics continue!

Does that mean it is the same for everyone in London and the South East? You obviously live relatively close to London. Can you speak for the people further out?

How regular are your buses by the way? Most people elsewhere in the country can only dream of the kind of frequencies various areas of London have and I'm sure would be more than happy to stand on a single decker :).
 
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John55

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Does that mean it is the same for everyone in London and the South East? You obviously live relatively close to London. Can you speak for the people further out?

How regular are your buses by the way? Most people else where in the country can only dream of the kind of frequencies various areas of London have and I'm sure would be more than happy to stand on a single decker :).

If you read the post carefully you might have noticed the bit "as a resident of London".

You put in the posting "Your life should be put on hold, your plans canceled, postponed or disrupted all for the benefit of the aforementioned people." I merely pointed out your comments were totally wrong from my perspective.

I am not sure what the frequency of the route matters all I said was due to the Games they have substituted bigger buses which allow me to sit down more often therefore improving my journey home.
 

asylumxl

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If you read the post carefully you might have noticed the bit "as a resident of London".

You put in the posting "Your life should be put on hold, your plans canceled, postponed or disrupted all for the benefit of the aforementioned people." I merely pointed out your comments were totally wrong from my perspective.

I am not sure what the frequency of the route matters all I said was due to the Games they have substituted bigger buses which allow me to sit down more often therefore improving my journey home.

And I was merely pointing out that the impact on other peoples journeys and lives will vary depending on their circumstances and location.

I'm sorry if I feel it is wrong to tell "locals" to avoid travelling during the games, particularly when you consider where the money comes from.
 

Southern

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To be honest, I don't see what the problem is. Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Sittingbourne and Faversham have 3 service back after midnight at 0117, 0144 and 0155. Ashford has an even more frequent service, starting with the 0041, then 0057, 0106, 0111, 0127 and 0138. All stations St Mary Cray - Charing even has a 0100 from Victoria. If you live East of Ashford, however, the last train with connections is the 2139 from St Pancras (2149 from Stratford). Miss that and it's a schlep over to to Charing Cross for the stopper, last service leaving at 2340 so no good for any late night events.

Does anyone know how busy the Ebbsfleet shuttles have been? Has there been a lot standing? Were 12-coach 395's really necessary for the shuttles? From what I saw, there were only a light scattering in each carriage. The only service I saw that turned out a considerable crowd was one that had come in from Faversham on Sunday night so I'm guessing an event had just finished. This was followed by lightly loaded services from Ebbsfleet and Ashford.
 

Bungle73

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To be honest, I don't see what the problem is. Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Sittingbourne and Faversham have 3 service back after midnight at 0117, 0144 and 0155.
What use is that if I'm coming out of the Olympic Park at 9:30pm (and that first train is at 1.26am not 1:17am)? That leaves a wait of about 4 hours!
 

John55

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And I was merely pointing out that the impact on other peoples journeys and lives will vary depending on their circumstances and location.

I'm sorry if I feel it is wrong to tell "locals" to avoid travelling during the games, particularly when you consider where the money comes from.


The advice from TfL that I have seen is the following 5 points, none of which say don't travel, item 3 says think about travelling less often. The emphasis was travel by all means but avoid "hotspots" which is fair enough.

1..Leave at a different time...........Why not stay out a little longer?

2 Try changing your route............Check the travel hotspots

3..Consider reducing your travel.....Is flexible working an option for you?

4..Walking may be quicker............Check the walking options in our Journey Planner

5..Cycling may be an option...........Find out more information about cycling in London


How has your life been affected by the Olympics? Is it the case that in your case "Your life should be put on hold, your plans canceled, postponed or disrupted all for the benefit of the aforementioned people."?

When out and about in the last 10 days the overwhelming majority of people I have seen going to Olympic events are British going for a day out as a family with a fair smattering of tourists. It does not appear to be an event for "tourists, foreign athletes and diplomats" at all. Certainly the press/tv coverage seems to suggest far more people attending events than normal for these events and the extra people can only be locals (ie from UK).
 

ainsworth74

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What use is that if I'm coming out of the Olympic Park at 9:30pm (and that first train is at 1.26am not 1:17am)? That leaves a wait of about 4 hours!

Err perhaps I'm missing something but why can't you go to St Pancras, tube to Victoria and then catch a service to Faversham from there?
 

Wath Yard

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I'm sure the other people in the country would soon start complaining if the trains to their stations were completely cancelled to benefit other people.

Is there really a need to have trains to central London every five minutes after 11.15pm when the biggest event (ie the athletics) finishes at 9:30pm?

Trains to Blackpool South were replaced by buses during The Open so people going to the golf could have a 1/2 hourly service. I don't recall much moaning.
 

Bungle73

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Err perhaps I'm missing something but why can't you go to St Pancras, tube to Victoria and then catch a service to Faversham from there?

I can, but I would have preferred not to have to because:

a) it's going in completely the opposite direction I want to go in.

b) everyone else will be going that way too, so now doubt the station, platform and train will be rammed as 80,000+ people all try to get home.

c) it will double my journey time.

d) I think I should be able to use the service that is supposed to be there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Trains to Blackpool South were replaced by buses during The Open so people going to the golf could have a 1/2 hourly service. I don't recall much moaning.

Replaced with buses, that's not the same as completely stopping the service all together.
 

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I come from Sittingbourne too and had to head to and from the Olympic park for the opening ceremony rehearsals (which finished at 2230) and various athletic events (including Jess Ennis', Mo Farah's and Greg Rutherford's brilliant victories). I guess it is a little bit of an inconvenience but we have known for a long time, months, that this would be the case.

If you have a ticket for an event, you get a Games Travelcard which allows free travel to Victoria from Stratford Int'l, where there are half hourly services to Sittingbourne.
 

Southern

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What use is that if I'm coming out of the Olympic Park at 9:30pm (and that first train is at 1.26am not 1:17am)? That leaves a wait of about 4 hours!

Sorry, was looking at St Pancras departures :oops:

What John55 quoted:

1..Leave at a different time...........Why not stay out a little longer?

I haven't been to the Olympic Park but there must be other things to do in and around the place...if not, you could always head back into London, explore, soak up the atmosphere! ;) If not, there's always the bus between Ebbsfleet - Swanscombe/Greenhithe. The latter has a slightly more frequent service towards Gravesend/Gillingham for connections onward.
 

Wath Yard

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Replaced with buses, that's not the same as completely stopping the service all together.

You also have an alternative but you prefer not to use it. No difference between the two whatsoever except the Olympics is slightly more important than some golf tournament that happens every year.
 

asylumxl

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How has your life been affected by the Olympics? Is it the case that in your case "Your life should be put on hold, your plans canceled, postponed or disrupted all for the benefit of the aforementioned people."?

I have managed to avoid commuting to work in London recently in general, but have seen various entry/exit only arrangements and odd diversions.

The best example of this has to be London Bridge. Platform 1-6 to the Underground, you are diverted all the way round the outside of the station in a huge loop. The station is not even that busy, even with various events on the routes of London Bridge. I'd say peak time during normal term time is in fact considerably busier.

I note you've not replied in regard to who is paying the bill for the Olympics.
 

Bungle73

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I come from Sittingbourne too and had to head to and from the Olympic park for the opening ceremony rehearsals (which finished at 2230) and various athletic events (including Jess Ennis', Mo Farah's and Greg Rutherford's brilliant victories). I guess it is a little bit of an inconvenience but we have known for a long time, months, that this would be the case.
It was known that they've be cutting back the service, not that they'd be stopping it altogether at certain times.

If you have a ticket for an event, you get a Games Travelcard which allows free travel to Victoria from Stratford Int'l, where there are half hourly services to Sittingbourne.
I know. I'll guess I'll have to pick one up.

Sorry, was looking at St Pancras departures :oops:

What John55 quoted:

1..Leave at a different time...........Why not stay out a little longer?

I haven't been to the Olympic Park but there must be other things to do in and around the place...if not, you could always head back into London, explore, soak up the atmosphere! ;) If not, there's always the bus between Ebbsfleet - Swanscombe/Greenhithe. The latter has a slightly more frequent service towards Gravesend/Gillingham for connections onward.
I've already been and there's not enough to occupy me for fours late at night. I will want to get home.

You also have an alternative but you prefer not to use it. No difference between the two whatsoever except the Olympics is slightly more important than some golf tournament that happens every year.
Get on one bus, get off at your destinanation; where as I will have to get on one train (to a place I don't want to go), along with thousands of other people, get off that train, make the hike from the SE platforms to the Vic Line platforms, get on another train, get off and make my way to the SE platforms at Victoria, then get on another train! That's 3 trains, 2 changes and a ~2 hour journey when I should be able to do it in less than an hour on one train.
 

Wath Yard

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Except it wasn't get on one bus and get off at your destination. If you're going to argue at least make some attempt to ascertain the facts. It was get on a train, get off, hang around waiting for a bus, get on the bus and take much longer than the rail journey.
 

Bungle73

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Except it wasn't get on one bus and get off at your destination. If you're going to argue at least make some attempt to ascertain the facts. It was get on a train, get off, hang around waiting for a bus, get on the bus and take much longer than the rail journey.

It's not my fault if you miss out half the story. In case you were still being taking in the direction you needed to go in.

"I know! We've got 80,000 people coming out of the Olympic Stadium, lets cancel one train service completely and force everyone to travel to St. Pancras, creating more congestion than there needed to be because people will be going there who didn't want to be. What a good idea."
 
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