Southern Class 455 PRM modifications

[387star]

to confirm no 455s booked to Horsham (they require guards from Dorking) from the May timetable change?

Any photos of 455s at Warnham/Ockley/Holmewood welcome

 

[Fincra5]

to confirm no 455s booked to Horsham (they require guards from Dorking) from the May timetable change?

Any photos of 455s at Warnham/Ockley/Holmewood welcome

Indeed. 455s are withdrawn from Horsham in the May TT.

 

[Class455]

455 moves to take place tonight: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O94719/2018/05/03/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K22901/2018/05/04/advanced

 

[Class455]

455801 and 455820 now with new door alarms. 455801 was rather unusually in a 12 car ECS working with 455 813 and 455 845 two weeks ago. Here is a video of it, credit to Southernrailwaysfan:

The amount of 455's with old door alarms are decreasing at a rather rapid rate now, meanwhile Wolverton moves are still taking place overnight annoyingly.

 

[KC1]

Was this in passenger service?

 

[Class455]

Was this in passenger service?

Nope, it was an ECS move

 

[Class455]

Another 455 went to Wolverton, with one coming back.
Looks like I'm going to have to wait until we have a longer day if these keep departing at 21:00 from Wolverton if I want to spot one

 

[physics34]

I know i seem to always be at war with the PRM-TSI "improvements" but do we know why the piercing door open chime has to chime 5 times? Is that a recommendation. ?

I struggle to see how FIVE is more useful than one or maybe two. It is quite piercing to us drivers who have our windows open! I expect comments about me being selfish but you have to admit 5 is excessive.

 

[Domh245]

I know i seem to always be at war with the PRM-TSI "improvements" but do we know why the piercing door open chime has to chime 5 times? Is that a recommendation. ?

I struggle to see how FIVE is more useful than one or maybe two. It is quite piercing to us drivers who have our windows open! I expect comments about me being selfish but you have to admit 5 is excessive.

Quoting from the regulation:

"When a door is released for opening a signal shall be given that is clearly audible and visible to persons inside and outside the train. This alert signal shall last for a minimum of five seconds unless the door is operated, in which case it may cease after 3 seconds."

and

"Door opening — Characteristics
— A slow pulse multi tone (up to 2 pulses per second) of 2 tones emitted sequential."

So it could be worse than just 5 beeps. That said, the reasoning is sensible, "The sound source for door alert signals shall be located in the area local to the control device or, if there is no such control device, adjacent to the doorway." - having it go for 5 seconds gives visually impaired people a chance to find the button and press it.

 

[physics34]

Quoting from the regulation:

"When a door is released for opening a signal shall be given that is clearly audible and visible to persons inside and outside the train. This alert signal shall last for a minimum of five seconds unless the door is operated, in which case it may cease after 3 seconds."

and

"Door opening — Characteristics
— A slow pulse multi tone (up to 2 pulses per second) of 2 tones emitted sequential."

So it could be worse than just 5 beeps. That said, the reasoning is sensible, "The sound source for door alert signals shall be located in the area local to the control device or, if there is no such control device, adjacent to the doorway." - having it go for 5 seconds gives visually impaired people a chance to find the button and press it.

cheers for that. I guess it is about 5 seconds. I wonder if their are regs about the decibels as it is loud and piercing. The sound comes from a speaker on the door button module itself. So you literally have to get deafened whilst pressing it. Im all for these improvements, they just seem excessive.

 

[Domh245]

I wonder if their are regs about the decibels as it is loud and piercing.

Naturally! You can either have an adaptive device set at 5dB (continuous equivalent level) above ambient up to a maximum of 70dB, or one that is fixed at 70dB - the tones are similarly fixed at either 2200Hz (C#7/Db7) or 1760Hz (A6), although it seems to be the case that the fitted sounders don't do either - they seem to be nearer to 1500Hz. They also sound a single tone rather than the 2 that the TSI suggests.

Whilst trying to find out more about this, I stumbled across this RSSB document from 2012 in response to the TSI, which has a few interesting bits in it:

Passenger door audible warning – Door enabled for opening – "A continuous or slow pulse multi-tone…of 2 combined tones"

There is disagreement over the meaning of "continuous…of 2 tones". Does this mean both tones must be made at the same time? Or can they be alternate?
---
Sound pressure levels for passenger door audible warnings 70dB +/- 2 dB is said to be unachievable by other CEN Working Groups, and can be too loud at quiet stations at night.

Adaptive devices that adjust the volume to be 5dB above the ambient sound should be permitted (indeed, should be encouraged) [note that this does seem to have been enacted]
---
Frequencies for passenger door audible warnings

Research for DfT suggests that white noise (like the reversing sounds for road trucks) gives better direction finding advice and is more perceptible above background noise. Indeed, the research suggests that white noise is sufficiently perceptible to only need to be broadcast at the same volume as ambient noise levels. This would help reduce nuisance to passengers and people living near stations

 

[Bikeman78]

Quoting from the regulation:

"When a door is released for opening a signal shall be given that is clearly audible and visible to persons inside and outside the train. This alert signal shall last for a minimum of five seconds unless the door is operated, in which case it may cease after 3 seconds."

and

"Door opening — Characteristics
— A slow pulse multi tone (up to 2 pulses per second) of 2 tones emitted sequential."

So it could be worse than just 5 beeps. That said, the reasoning is sensible, "The sound source for door alert signals shall be located in the area local to the control device or, if there is no such control device, adjacent to the doorway." - having it go for 5 seconds gives visually impaired people a chance to find the button and press it.

Does it really have to be so loud though? If someone has poor eyesight, it doesn't mean they are deaf! The door opening chime on the class 170s or S stock is quite perfectly audible and much less irritating.

Also, if making things easier for partially sighted people is the aim, then why remove half the internal door buttons? The 455s always had buttons each side of each pair of doors but one side has now been plated over.

John

 

[ert47]

Just got off 838 at London Bridge... nice use of the Johnston typeface...

 

[southern442]

The class 315 beeps are pretty much perfect for the job IMO. Loud and clear, but not SCREECHING. These new chimes are particularly grating when one has had a stressful day at work or school or college, and/or has a headache, and has to travel home on one of these for 30 minutes plus. Seems as though we are a very long way from escaping them.

These new regulations are really extra to be honest. Why can't we just have a ding-ding like they used to have on the networkers?

 

[physics34]

The class 315 beeps are pretty much perfect for the job IMO. Loud and clear, but not SCREECHING. These new chimes are particularly grating when one has had a stressful day at work or school or college, and/or has a headache, and has to travel home on one of these for 30 minutes plus. Seems as though we are a very long way from escaping them.

These new regulations are really extra to be honest. Why can't we just have a ding-ding like they used to have on the networkers?

Ive mentioned before about the affect all these beeps, buzzers and announcements possibly have on the subconscious. Basically Noise pollution.

These sounds are there to 'grab' your attention, alert you, surprise you and speed up your heart rate in the process.

If they are constantly thrown at you they will make you uptight, irritable and uncomfortable. Some people get used to them, but many dont.

Your journey would be more comfortable with less of them. You may even enjoy it, especially after a hard day at work.

We must find a happy medium.

 

[southern442]

Ive mentioned before about the affect all these beeps, buzzers and announcements possibly have on the subconscious. Basically Noise pollution.

These sounds are there to 'grab' your attention, alert you, surprise you and speed up your heart rate in the process.

If they are constantly thrown at you they will make you uptight, irritable and uncomfortable. Some people get used to them, but many dont.

Your journey would be more comfortable with less of them. You may even enjoy it, especially after a hard day at work.

We must find a happy medium.

It is rather ironic considering that at some stations such as East Croydon, they seem to turn off the automated announcements after a certain time, yet the ear piercing beeps still ring on throughout the night. The DfT's regulations are getting worse and worse.

In addition I'm a little sad as I will probably never get to ride a 455 down to Horsham and experience the speed between Dorking and Holmwood

 

[superalbs]

The door tones on the 377/6/7, 379 and 387s are really nice sounding. Alerting, but also nice and soft on the ear.

 

[physics34]

The door tones on the 377/6/7, 379 and 387s are really nice sounding. Alerting, but also nice and soft on the ear.

The door closing ones are, the door opening ones quite loud

 

[Class455]

There are 455 moves taking place tomorrow. Thankfully they're during the day this time so might be able to go and spot one. Worried however that there might be a delay, as when I went to see 319446 and 220 heading for storage it was delayed by an hour.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone have any info as to which routes the 455s will be used on from May? RTT suggests the following routes (75 mph schedules):
London Bridge to Caterham via Tulse Hill,
London Bridge to Beckenham Junction,
London Bridge to Coulsdon Town via Sydenham,
Peak hour London Bridge to Wimbledon

This equates to 32 units, assuming all are pairs. Leasing 46 units for 32 diagrams is rather excessive...

Has it become clearer yet how many daily 455 diagrams there will be?

 

[Bikeman78]

Has it become clearer yet how many daily 455 diagrams there will be?

There are 42 diagrams. Pretty much as I listed above but also all trains to Epsom Downs. There are some oddball workings. The 0801 and 1631 Victoria to Caterham are 455s. Both run fast from Clapham Junction to East Croydon.

 

[Bikeman78]

It is rather ironic considering that at some stations such as East Croydon, they seem to turn off the automated announcements after a certain time, yet the ear piercing beeps still ring on throughout the night. The DfT's regulations are getting worse and worse.

In addition I'm a little sad as I will probably never get to ride a 455 down to Horsham and experience the speed between Dorking and Holmwood

I suspect they can still go to Horsham if they run non stop from Dorking. No DOO equipment at Warnham, Ockley or Holmwood.

 

[Class455]

Just caught the 5Q55 move! 37884 was taking 455802 back to Stewart’s Lane.

 

[Lukespenceruk1]

When is the next move due. I keep missing this

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Ive mentioned before about the affect all these beeps, buzzers and announcements possibly have on the subconscious. Basically Noise pollution.

These sounds are there to 'grab' your attention, alert you, surprise you and speed up your heart rate in the process.

If they are constantly thrown at you they will make you uptight, irritable and uncomfortable. Some people get used to them, but many dont.

Your journey would be more comfortable with less of them. You may even enjoy it, especially after a hard day at work.

We must find a happy medium.

I don't travel on 455's any more so might have to take my (non-scientific) dB meter app to test. Indeed, there are many people with or without hearing issues who are really, really bothered by sudden loud noises and cause them a lot of psychological distress. Noise pollution is really starting to become a problem - take a look at New York City

 

[Class455]

37884 took 455 801 (I believe) to Wolverton for overhaul on Saturday according to the link below, can anyone confirm? Hopefully I'll be able to catch the return.
https://flic.kr/p/27KEJwu

 

[Class455]

455 801 is now back at Stewarts Lane. Annoyed the working slipped through my grasp though, was hoping to catch it! Instead I was watching the world cup...

 

[Class455]

According to Today's Railways, 455 813 and 455 821 are now fully modified, along with another I can't remember.

 

[Milo T.K]

I saw that class 455s are getting wifi in them

 

[387star]

Why didn't southern replace these with 377/6s a few years back ?