Southern Class 455 reformations

[Class455]

Have been hearing that when the Southern Class 455 fleet were refurbished back in 2003-2004, a few of the units were reformed due to corrosion or other issues, for example 455801 swapped DTSO's with 455825 after 5825 had a collision in Selhurst Depot with 319214. Does anyone know which other 455's have been reformed and why they were never put back into original formation?

 

[87electric]

There's quite a lot if you compare original lists to todays ones. I'm sure someone will be along to help you further.

 

[physics34]

Im certain i saw 1 unit with a different unit number at either end. But could never prove it and have never heard about it from anyone else!

 

[big all]

around 1990 there was a 3 car with 2 reporting numbers cant remember the unit numbers
was on a caterham to charring cross and the signal man contacted me and said you will have to lock up the rear coach as we where going on top off one at charring cross but he was confused as it said i had 2 units
i pointed out it was a "cut and shut" from 2 units to make a 3 car
all i can remember was both unit numbers didnt register so would have both been normal central units
from wiki so assume the units concerened
"On 18 February 1990, unit 5820 collided with a fallen tree obstructing the line at Gipsy Hill and was derailed. Unit 5802 then collided with 5820.[34]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_455
also forgot to add it was numbered 5800

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Doesn't the latest Platform 5 show unit formations? If you have them for the last 10 years or so, you can work out the different reformations.

Not uncommon to swap coaches so as not to delay refurb units getting back to traffic

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's pretty much a game of musical carriages; the following 455s are not in their original formations:

455 801 - contains one driving trailer from 455 825 and the trailer from 455 821
455 802 - contains the trailer from 455 828
455 808 - contains one driving trailer from 455 830
455 809 - contains one driving trailer from 455 823 and one from 455 812, plus the trailer from 455 812
455 812 - contains one driving trailer from 455 809 and one from 455 824, plus the trailer from 455 809
455 816 - contains one driving trailer from 455 828
455 818 - contains one driving trailer from 455 827
455 819 - contains the trailer from 455 801
455 821 - contains the trailer from 455 819
455 823 - contains one driving trailer from 455 812 and one from 455 809
455 824 - contains one driving trailer from 455 808 and one from 455 823
455 825 - contains one driving trailer from 455 801
455 826 - the driving trailers have swapped ends
455 827 - contains one driving trailer from 455 816 and one from 455 818.
455 828 - contains one driving trailer from 455 827 and the trailer from 455 802
455 830 - contains one driving trailer from 455 824 and the motor from 455 835
455 835 - contains the motor from 455 830

Note that 455 816 has two odd numbered and 455 827 has two even numbered driving trailers.

Some units, you will see, have swapped three carriages - they retain the unit numbers they do because convention on the Southern area is that it is the motor vehicle which gives the unit an identity - so I am rather puzzled why 455 830 and 455 835 swapped motors without swapping their identities.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Could it be that pre-1963 stock, Southern units had 2 motor coaches per set (with brake van) and from the 4 Cigs, the motors and brake van were moved to a more central position using one coach?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Could it be that pre-1963 stock, Southern units had 2 motor coaches per set (with brake van) and from the 4 Cigs, the motors and brake van were moved to a more central position using one coach?

When there were two motors, it was generally the one with the guard's van in it that determined the unit identity.

In the case of the 455s, it appears that the convention is followed for all except the last two on the list, so that's the puzzle there.

 

[big all]

When there were two motors, it was generally the one with the guard's van in it that determined the unit identity.

In the case of the 455s, it appears that the convention is followed for all except the last two on the list, so that's the puzzle there.

all motor coaches on southern units had gaurds vans apart from reps and rebuilt ceps and beps from memory apart from newer sliding door units that follow the british rail rather than southern practices
the only eastliegh built units that i can think off that differ are the north london 501s that had a brake van each end and one motor coach

 

[Class455]

It's pretty much a game of musical carriages; the following 455s are not in their original formations:

455 801 - contains one driving trailer from 455 825 and the trailer from 455 821
455 802 - contains the trailer from 455 828
455 808 - contains one driving trailer from 455 830
455 809 - contains one driving trailer from 455 823 and one from 455 812, plus the trailer from 455 812
455 812 - contains one driving trailer from 455 809 and one from 455 824, plus the trailer from 455 809
455 816 - contains one driving trailer from 455 828
455 818 - contains one driving trailer from 455 827
455 819 - contains the trailer from 455 801
455 821 - contains the trailer from 455 819
455 823 - contains one driving trailer from 455 812 and one from 455 809
455 824 - contains one driving trailer from 455 808 and one from 455 823
455 825 - contains one driving trailer from 455 801
455 826 - the driving trailers have swapped ends
455 827 - contains one driving trailer from 455 816 and one from 455 818.
455 828 - contains one driving trailer from 455 827 and the trailer from 455 802
455 830 - contains one driving trailer from 455 824 and the motor from 455 835
455 835 - contains the motor from 455 830

Note that 455 816 has two odd numbered and 455 827 has two even numbered driving trailers.

Some units, you will see, have swapped three carriages - they retain the unit numbers they do because convention on the Southern area is that it is the motor vehicle which gives the unit an identity - so I am rather puzzled why 455 830 and 455 835 swapped motors without swapping their identities.

Interesting, thanks for that.

Any idea why these 455's were never returned back to their original formations?

 

[big all]

Interesting, thanks for that.

Any idea why these 455's were never returned back to their original formations?

i would suggest no value in doing so other than neatness on a list if you have ocd
when units run for a while within a formation you would have noticeable difference on the swapped back coaches as they will be different times away from the around say 5 years overhaul and repaint dates