Southern Daysave - what's the catch?

[Haywain]

I think the "it must be collected from a Southern station" is a bit of a myth.

It's something that has been put in place for some tickets over the years (by various TOCs) because they are using a format that is not universally supported and this guards against problems with tickets not printing correctly. Collecting such a ticket elsewhere than stated is taking a bit of a gamble.

 

[yorkie]

Can't remember what the off peak times are but I vaguely remember a daysave is only valid after 10.00 M-F ? No restrictions on weekends/bank holidays

Also, I don't think a daysave is valid on GatEx services to Brighton (?)

As others have said, the legality of brand restrictive pricing has been debated elsewhere and the matter is due to go to trial

 

[JB_B]

The other potential downside is that they won't* work at the gate lines and you might need to argue past some 'not valid here' mumbling in some places.

* - unless that's changed recently? it's a few years since I used one.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes I collected one, some years ago now, from a VTEC TVM at Darlington with no issue. I think the "it must be collected from a Southern station" is a bit of a myth.

IIRC some TVMs used to make a right Horlicks of printing this ticket. I think things are better now.

 

[The_Train]

This is a fantastically valued ranger ticket!
Last time I did one, I knew I was starting at Clapham but not sure where the Southern start point will be for an upcoming one I want to buy. I presume the fact you have to select a station as part of the purchase process bears no actual relevance to where you in fact do start your Southern journey from?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

One time, when Southern mainline was being diverted to London Bridge the Southern website would allow me to collect my Daysave from Victoria but not London Bridge

 

[paulcleaver]

I can remember buying these at the old Brighton Buses One Stop Shop when it was in Brighton station. I can also remember buying it in the tourist information centre. I could be wrong, but I thought it was issued on a blue ticket way back then. I remember the lady at the tourist information centre fiddling about in a box for the ticket though.

It's a shame that Brighton buses have stopped issuing train tickets, as both the Brighton and Hove travel centres.

The Thameslink Daysave used to be great. I used it in conjunction with another ticket to get be back home to Leicester back in the day.

 

[paul1609]

I can remember buying these at the old Brighton Buses One Stop Shop when it was in Brighton station. I can also remember buying it in the tourist information centre. I could be wrong, but I thought it was issued on a blue ticket way back then. I remember the lady at the tourist information centre fiddling about in a box for the ticket though.

It's a shame that Brighton buses have stopped issuing train tickets, as both the Brighton and Hove travel centres.

The Thameslink Daysave used to be great. I used it in conjunction with another ticket to get be back home to Leicester back in the day.

Theres still a Thameslink Saver that you can buy on a Brighton Bus; https://www.buses.co.uk/southern-thameslink-saver

 

[JB_B]

Theres still a Thameslink Saver that you can buy on a Brighton Bus; https://www.buses.co.uk/southern-thameslink-saver

There is. Unfortunately - despite the similar name to "Thameslink Daysave" (or "Southern Daysave") - it's a completely different product allowing just one return rail journey.

 

[paul1609]

There is. Unfortunately - despite the similar name to "Thameslink Daysave" (or "Southern Daysave") - it's a completely different product allowing just one return rail journey.

I rather imagine the number of Brighton Residents wanting to make a day trip to Luton or Bedford is amazingly close to zero. The number of people that want to spend the day traveling up and down the MML from Zone 6 to Bedford must be infinitesimally small.

 

[blakey1152]

Yes I collected one, some years ago now, from a VTEC TVM at Darlington with no issue. I think the "it must be collected from a Southern station" is a bit of a myth.

It must depend on the type of TVM you collected it from, I bought a Daysave in advance a few years back and it said must be collected from a Southern station and I just tried my luck on the ticket machine at Slade Green and it printed it...in two halves
I can't remember what each part said but it had an OUT and RTN portion and I believe it said as a destination any Southern Station on each one
I got a funny look from one of the guards on the train but it was still accepted - but no barriers would take it.

 

[ChrisC]

The 7 day version, mentioned earlier in this thread and withdrawn from sale a good few years ago, was a great ticket. I used it on a couple of occasions at least 10 years ago. It was very useful once whilst staying in East Croydon. I was able to use it during the day to explore places along the South Coast and some of the branches such as East Grinstead, Uckfield, Tattenham Corner, Caterham etc. Then I could also use it in the evening to travel in and out of Central London. I think in those days it wasn’t available to collect from a TVM and had to be delivered by post and it also had to be ordered far more than 3 days in advance.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It must depend on the type of TVM you collected it from, I bought a Daysave in advance a few years back and it said must be collected from a Southern station and I just tried my luck on the ticket machine at Slade Green and it printed it...in two halves

Originally, I believe DaySaves had to be manually added to the local ToD database at each station (a feature of the Worldline/Shere TVMs) which is why the collection references were non-standard (only six characters instead of eight IIRC.)

Occasionally you also find that TVMs aren't configured to use the correct format when issuing a ticket, and they do something unusual (as experienced there.) In such cases, the magstripe on the "Return" portion tends not to be encoded.

 

[Kite159]

One time, when Southern mainline was being diverted to London Bridge the Southern website would allow me to collect my Daysave from Victoria but not London Bridge

Isn't that down to the TVMs London Victoria being 'run' by Southern but the TVMs at London Bridge being 'run' by South Eastern?

 

[TFN]

I've collected a Southern DaySave from Lewisham before with no issues.

 

[Haywain]

I think the "it must be collected from a Southern station" is a bit of a myth.

That sort of message is because they can guarantee that a Southern machine would print the ticket correctly. If the ticket is using a format that is non-standard there is no certainty that machines operated by other TOCs would support the format and print the ticket correctly, if at all. This is the result of using a non-standard format that is not required as part TVM accreditation.

 

[ainsworth74]

That sort of message is because they can guarantee that a Southern machine would print the ticket correctly. If the ticket is using a format that is non-standard there is no certainty that machines operated by other TOCs would support the format and print the ticket correctly, if at all. This is the result of using a non-standard format that is not required as part TVM accreditation.

Glad to see your answer to this hasn't really changed since the last time you said it on this very thread

It's something that has been put in place for some tickets over the years (by various TOCs) because they are using a format that is not universally supported and this guards against problems with tickets not printing correctly. Collecting such a ticket elsewhere than stated is taking a bit of a gamble.

 

[Haywain]

Glad to see your answer to this hasn't really changed since the last time you said it on this very thread

I like to be consistent!

 

[paul1609]

Glad to see your answer to this hasn't really changed since the last time you said it on this very thread

And in all fairness several earlier conspiracy threads on the same subject by various posters including the at the time Southern pricing Manager (subsequently moved on) who used to be a member here.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've bought myself a DaySave for next weekend, and I plan to try it to some Thameslink destinations, if I get the chance, to see what happens.

As far as I'm concerned, Southern is a brand operated by Govia Thameslink Railway, and tickets can only be TOC restricted and not brand restricted, so I'm within my rights, but I'm sure no members of staff would see it that way.

I will note that so far I haven't seen the lettering of the rules behind this statement that brand-restricted fares aren't allowed to be set, but I haven't delved into the TSA deeply yet.

 

[Haywain]

I've bought myself a DaySave for next weekend, and I plan to try it to some Thameslink destinations, if I get the chance, to see what happens.

As far as I'm concerned, Southern is a brand operated by Govia Thameslink Railway, and tickets can only be TOC restricted and not brand restricted, so I'm within my rights, but I'm sure no members of staff would see it that way.

I will note that so far I haven't seen the lettering of the rules behind this statement that brand-restricted fares aren't allowed to be set, but I haven't delved into the TSA deeply yet.

I would strongly advise against trying to use a Southern Daysave ticket north of the capital. You will only encounter problems.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I've bought myself a DaySave for next weekend, and I plan to try it to some Thameslink destinations, if I get the chance, to see what happens.

As far as I'm concerned, Southern is a brand operated by Govia Thameslink Railway, and tickets can only be TOC restricted and not brand restricted, so I'm within my rights, but I'm sure no members of staff would see it that way.

I will note that so far I haven't seen the lettering of the rules behind this statement that brand-restricted fares aren't allowed to be set, but I haven't delved into the TSA deeply yet.

The Ticketing and Settlement Agreement defines an Operator as: "any person, other than the RSP, which is bound by this Agreement, or part of it", with a Dedicated Fare being defined as "a Fare which entitles the Purchaser to use the trains of a single Operator only."

The list of operators is in Schedule 1 to the TSA, but the public version of this is outdated as it still includes Abellio ScotRail, Arriva Rail North, Arriva Trains Wales, East Midlands Trains, NXET Trains (National Express Essex Thameside - aka c2c), Stagecoach South Western Trains, and West Coast Trains.

An updated list - correct to 24th May 2022 - can be found in Schedule 24 to the TSA, more commonly known as the National Rail Conditions of Travel, and that lists trading names as well as the legal entity for each TOC.

Whilst there's no provision in the TSA for Schedule 1 to be overridden, the NRCoT is an inherent part of the contract under which a ticket is sold, which muddies the waters. That said, as Haywain says in post #51, I would strongly advise against trying to use a Southern DaySave North of London, as GTR are highly unlikely to roll over and cancel a PF or refund any additional tickets purchased, unlike on Gatwick - London.

 

[yorkie]

While GTR are not permited to restrict tickets by band, GTR could argue that it's a geographically restricted ticket, and therefore I would strongly advise against using it on Thameslink services north of London Bridge. It's not an argument anyone should go down.

By all means have that argument at places such as Brighton etc.

It would be especially difficult for GTR to argue that you cannot use it on direct services between London and Brighton.

Trains to Brighton | Train Tickets to Brighton | Southern Railway

Rich history, a vaunted pier and a lively shopping and dining scene – pop on board Southern from London and Brighton’s yours in just an hour.

www.southernrailway.com

Travel to Brighton from London Victoria with Southern trains
We know that Brighton days out should be as enjoyable and stress-free as possible. That’s why we operate a number of regular services to this fantastic city - so you can spend more time planning what activities to do, and less time worrying about the travel.

Getting to Brighton from London Victoria and London Bridge takes around an hour, so you can be out exploring in no time. Or if you’re coming from the south coast, you can hop on a train from Southampton to the west or Ashford International to the east – or any point in between.

That said, I suspect GTR would attempt such an argument, such is their contempt for contract and consumer law.

If you are going to have an argument, that's the best journey to have it on!

 

[class387]

Sorry to revive a thread, and especially if it's been asked before, but is it alright to collect a Daysave on the day of travel, provided that you've bought it three days before? Would have thought it'd be fine but Southern's website seems to insinuate otherwise.

 

[yorkie]

Yes it is

 

[class387]

Yes it is

Great, thanks.

 

[cambsy]

as reiterated elsewhere on this thread,you can collect Day Save ticket on the day, long as booked at least 3 days before. I have done this myself both times bought this rover.

 

[David Goddard]

Recent replies are right on cue as I am planning a DaySave day out on Thursday.
So if I've read this right, as long as I order online today, I can then collect from Reading or Mortimer (non Southern stations) on Thursday morning?

In addition, a poster earlier commented that on the Southern website you have to enter a Southern Station as a start point. Having just gone on now it appears that this has to be a Southern managed station, not just where you will start your travels on Southern trains. For example I will be joining my first post 10:00 Southern train at Havant, but as this is SWR managed it does not come up. I assume this is all to do with the ticket encoding, so does not really matter which I select, it just has to be one of them?

Interestingly, despite all of the "must collect from a Southern station" waffle the next page where you select which station you want to collect from lists *(as usual) every station in the UK which has a TVM.

 

[MrJeeves]

Recent replies are right on cue as I am planning a DaySave day out on Thursday.
So if I've read this right, as long as I order online today, I can then collect from Reading or Mortimer (non Southern stations) on Thursday morning?

In addition, a poster earlier commented that on the Southern website you have to enter a Southern Station as a start point. Having just gone on now it appears that this has to be a Southern managed station, not just where you will start your travels on Southern trains. For example I will be joining my first post 10:00 Southern train at Havant, but as this is SWR managed it does not come up. I assume this is all to do with the ticket encoding, so does not really matter which I select, it just has to be one of them?

Interestingly, despite all of the "must collect from a Southern station" waffle the next page where you select which station you want to collect from lists *(as usual) every station in the UK which has a TVM.

You can physically collect it at most stations, but non-GTR managed stations may potentially not print the ticket correctly.

Sometimes, it may issue it as two tickets, similar to London Travelcard bugs, and other times it may encounter other issues. Theoretically, it should be ok on most modern TVMs, though.

 

[planetf1]

presumably the argument about not allowing *brand* specific pricing, could just as easily be used to justify the removal of 'thameslink only' pricing (very nice, especially for day trips brighton-london), as for being able to use GX.
Personally? I'd rather keep the thameslink only....!