Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by hornbyfan99, 1 Apr 2016.

  1. hornbyfan99

    hornbyfan99 Member

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    Mod edit: The forum team are aware that the extension of Driver-Only Operation (DOO) is a highly passionate topic. As such, in this thread only, we are now trialling allowing free debate on the subject.

    Please be advised that, due to the anticipated pace of discussion and the understandable passion on both sides of the debate, this thread will be reactively moderated only, with the exception of bad language and direct personal insults.

    Also, until legal proceedings are completed or dropped, discussion of the driver dispute with GTR on their Gatwick Express route is not permitted, however discussion on the guard dispute, and more general debate on DOO is expressly permitted in this thread only.

    The forum team, at their sole discretion, may also move posts from other threads into this one if they are on the subject of DOO.


    I see from the RMT website http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/role-of-the-guard-and-extension-of-doo310316/ that there is to be a ballot with regard to the role of Conductors on the Southern part of GTR.

    Looks like battle lines are drawn following recent comments from ASLEF/RMT on extensions of DOO, and Peter Wilkinson's comments at the now infamous meeting in Croydon (further detail on page 13 of the latest 'Modern Railways').

    Will be interested to see how this plays out, and whether it turns into a long drawn out dispute.

    Just read in The Railway magazine that Southern may loose most of their 400 guard/conductor jobs and be replaced by DOO/OPO.

    I was talking to a Southern guard on the WLL and they told me that they would be kept on that route as well as on the Uckfield line. I just want to know if this is correct? and what services will keep guards.

    Also, do we know when the stages of implementation will take place for the whole network?

    Many of the Southern stations do not have ticket barriers so where would you buy tickets if the machines were broken for example?

    Aren't some of the Marshlink stations request stops and therefore, DOO is not permitted?

    Finally do you think the Driver Control Operation could be done?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 19 Apr 2016
  2. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    It should be noted that Mr Wilkinson once did an anti-ticket gate rant saying about them being useless dumb robots (or similar) and that staff providing more ticket checks would be better value for money. At the time that was liked by unions but it seems DfT were unwilling to make his idea DfT policy and he himself has since been involved in including requirements for ticket gates in franchise specs.
     
    Last edited: 1 Apr 2016
  3. Stow

    Stow Member

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    I started this thread thread on the same topic the other day; http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=128776

    I haven't seen all the details but sounds like a big change
     
  4. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36082600
    All I can say is I wish the conductors the best of luck.

    EDIT: with the GatEx dispute having pending court action can we keep this away from the GatEx dispute and concentrate on the Southern Conductors please
     
    Last edited: 19 Apr 2016
  5. Agent_c

    Agent_c Member

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    Is this actually a different dispute, or is it the same one? Southern had GatEx in its franchise then GoVia got Southern in its... The DOO question looks like its the same, although the other dispute seemed ASLEF lead rather than RMT.
     
  6. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    Surely the thread title is premature? I thought a ballot had yet to take place.
     
  7. Agent_c

    Agent_c Member

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    No, the article says the ballot was nearly unanimous.
     
  8. HarleyDavidson

    HarleyDavidson Established Member

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    Spoke to a driver from SN last night and he said that they're up to no good, there's more to this than meets the eye and morale is very poor.

    All I can say is good luck to them, don't let GTR grind you down. The sooner they're gone the better, preferably as soon as Connex.
     
  9. Southern313

    Southern313 Member

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    Results came out late this morning.
     
  10. HLE

    HLE Member

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    Good luck to all southern conductors.
    Just goes to show the value of the unions.
     
  11. LBSCR Times

    LBSCR Times Member

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    Considering a large part of GTR is already DOO, then the effect might not be so great as expected.
    Travelled on six GTR (Southern) services last weekend, including the WLL, and only once did the Conductor actually walk through the train, so they don't help their case at times.
     
  12. tony6499

    tony6499 Member

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    I would imagine managers etc are being rushed through basic guards training to try and run a service on the strike days, whether drivers will now accept a poorly trained manager doing a guards job is another matter
     
  13. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    Do South West Trains ban DOO on the Portsmouth and Southampton routes? Thought they did?

    Did the 313s run doo under lorol?
     
    Last edited: 19 Apr 2016
  14. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    Good luck everybody on here from Southern. It's the fight of everybody who works for the railway, or knows what's best for the railway and passengers.
     
  15. GatwickDepress

    GatwickDepress Established Member

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    Good luck. Southern's guards are usually excellent and hard-working. It's a disappointment to see the grade treated so poorly by the higher ups.
     
  16. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    To be fair, that's not generally been my experience over the years.

    People will never work to their best when morale is bad, which is undoubtedly is at present.
     
  17. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    Funny you mention Connex, where the current CEO of TSGN- Charles Horton- cut his teeth as Operations Director.

    Amazing how the cream just rises to the top :lol:
     
  18. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Will the strike be that of a one day short-sharp reminder to the TOC or will a three-day strike carry far more weight?
     
  19. tony6499

    tony6499 Member

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    The 24 hour Midday to midday seems the way as it causes disruption for 2 days whilst only losing one days pay
     
  20. HLE

    HLE Member

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    In one.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    All about cost.
     
  21. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Member

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    Not rushed through. They've been trained for ages. This has all been in the pipeline for years.
     
  22. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    Good luck to the Southern guards. Warm up those braziers!
     
  23. YoungJohnson

    YoungJohnson Member

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    Good luck to the guards. DOO is a joke. Drivers should not be risking jail time for dealing with drunks and idiotic wasters on platforms jumping on the side of trains, whilst trying to deal with other duties.

    Guards are much better placed to deal with anti social behaviour / drunkeness or other medical issues which may warrant intervention in behaviour on platforms.

    Perhaps if the management want DOO so badly they can ensure that all drivers are immune from prosecution once they get the interlock light, and the passengers are responsible for their own actions.
     
  24. Agent_c

    Agent_c Member

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    We must all hang together... Or we'll all hang seperately.
    -Jim Hacker.
     
  25. LBSCR Times

    LBSCR Times Member

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    It's one fight the management cannot afford to lose.
    And it's a political dispute by the higher echelons of ASLEF and the RMT, both of whom are opposed to privatisation of the rail industry.
     
  26. eusd

    eusd Member

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    Genuine question :

    How do conductors today think they have a case against the 12 car DOO trains, when there are already operational 12-car 377s on Thameslink services ?
     
  27. The Box Photter

    The Box Photter Member

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    And already 12-car 387/1 and 387/2 (i.e. exactly the same trains as GatEx) running on exactly the same tracks, between most of the same stations.

    I fully support trades unions doing the best they can for their members, but how can the unions justify a DOO dispute when they've already acquiesced for DOO on identical stock over the same routes. It just plays right into the management and Government's hands by allowing them to classify the action as an example of union intransigence.
     
  28. tony6499

    tony6499 Member

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    It's not about 12 car DOO but about the withdrawal of the grade of Conductor and forcing people into a new role with diminished responsibilities
     
  29. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    The 313s can't run doo can they?

    I thought doo was banned from the swt network ie beyond havant but that might be untrue
     
  30. Agent_c

    Agent_c Member

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    That would require them to accept the proposition that those are safe.

    presuming 50 passengers a car, thats 600 passengers to one safety trained person, and that safety trained person is the first to hit the wall/train/etc in the event of a collusion.

    Do you think thats safe?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    You fight the battles you can win, not the ones you wish you could.
     

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