Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by hornbyfan99, 1 Apr 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dave1987

    Dave1987 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,387
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2012
    In 100 yrs time, who knows what will be the case, I almost certainly won't be alive. In my career I will probably see ETCS Level 2 spread across the network and maybe even a bit of Level 3 although I doubt that.
     
  2. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

    Messages:
    3,094
    Joined:
    26 Aug 2012
    To which their response would be the DFT aren't specifying any staff cuts in these DOO proposals in the various franchise awards
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2016
  3. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Joined:
    22 Sep 2013
    I somehow doubt that the many thousands/millions now off the dole queues would necessarily agree with that view.
     
  4. tony6499

    tony6499 Member

    Messages:
    821
    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Which is what Wilkinson said in his speech, how right was he ? Well paid jobs with good pensions are only for MP's
     
  5. speedy_sticks

    speedy_sticks On Moderation

    Messages:
    183
    Joined:
    24 Oct 2013
    Is there any league table which says which TOC is making money or not oit of their franchise?

    Also how subsidised their franchise is in relation to the above?
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2016
  6. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,166
    Joined:
    22 Feb 2012
    Location:
    Stoke Gifford
    Yes, I think the DfT's current vision for the future is that there should be at least a second staff member on any medium to long distance train under normal circumstances, but they don't see the guard's current role as value for money for the taxpayer.
     
  7. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    So we have unions going back to the 1970s Tories back to the 1870s though.
    Now where did I put my stove pipe hat
     
  8. speedy_sticks

    speedy_sticks On Moderation

    Messages:
    183
    Joined:
    24 Oct 2013
    Glad your enjoying your legal high this evening!

    I bet anybody here £200 that by 2021 there will be less than 20% of current guard (soon to be OBS) left on the trains of Southern.

     
  9. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    Is there anyway the RMT could find out how much revenue the conductor teams take overall and then compare it to the salary bill. It could be a factor which could help sway those of a more commercial view point to side with the Guards. Something along the lines of not only do they provide the safety element but they also took £X in revenue compared to £Y cost in wages.
    If they cost more then break it down to cost per passenger journey and put something along the lines of they only cost pence per journey, to provide that extra level of safety and support for our passengers. No mention of greedy capitalist fat cats needed.
     
  10. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Joined:
    6 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    There is such a table, but I can't remember where it is - probably buried somewhere on the DfT website. As for how subsidised it is compared to others, GTR has only been operating for a year and a half, but under a year at Southern (they started late July 2015). The data (probably?) won't be available yet

    An optimist I see!
     
  11. Bookd

    Bookd Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    27 Aug 2015
    The issue that has never been resolved in terms of automation of jobs is distributing income. In the seventies, when advocating the 'white heat of the technological revolution' Tony Benn forecast that in future the only problem that people would have would be how to fill their leisure time. This was seen as a good thing, but it depended on income being maintained in proportion; in practice those in well paid jobs work harder than ever, whilst income inequality continues to rise.
     
  12. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    So in other words a race to the bottom? How dare these people have good jobs when I don't have a job at all. I'd do their job for less without any of the perks because it's better than I currently have.

    Rather than look at what you could have you should only look at those worse off than you and be greatful you are better off than them. Of course of those at the top and business thought that way we really would be in trouble.
     
  13. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    My sources tell me that the target number of OBS is 255 compared to 313 at the outset. So based on 20% of 255 being 51 I will take your bet and if there are less than 51 people left in the OBS or similar role prior to the new franchise holder being announced. I will give £200 to a railway based charity.
     
  14. phoenixcronin

    phoenixcronin Member

    Messages:
    208
    Joined:
    30 Mar 2016
    Location:
    London
    How is moving people off the dole a "race to the bottom"? surely the dole is the bottomest of bottoms, so moving off the dole can only be a race towards the top.
     
  15. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    My point is that a zero hours minimum wage 'walked all over by your employer with no life out of work' style job may be better than unemployment but it dosnt mean it's justifiable to make it the norm for employment. Tory jobless figures are very misleading as the jobs they are creating force people into a poor quality of life with little future prospects and almost no chance of a mortgage etc. They are not interested in creating well paid jobs with good employment conditions.
     
  16. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    But these jobs apparently reward hard workers working hard for their families. :roll:
     
  17. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,166
    Joined:
    22 Feb 2012
    Location:
    Stoke Gifford
    Thank you, I can admit to have consumed a few pints of excellent English real ale this evening, but I remain of that view.
     
  18. speedy_sticks

    speedy_sticks On Moderation

    Messages:
    183
    Joined:
    24 Oct 2013
    Don't forget that these OBS roles will be dual use, they will be asked/required to work at any train station on the network, so if true, that number will be going down.

    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Sorry about the legal rights bit; thought you were talking purely about Southern.
     
  19. ungreat

    ungreat Member

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    11 Nov 2006
    Im a railwayman of nearly 30 years service.Ive seen BR,three men on a train,reduced to two and now one
    Ive never seen such staff intimidation as now with GTR are inflicting on their workforce
    There are people on this forum who obviously have never had union backing and dont expect anyone else to have either and expect the rail workers to submit to what they have to suffer...sorry,we dont work that way
    We have hard fought conditions of service and wish to keep them
    The Southern Guards are fighting for their jobs...I support them wholeheartedly
    GTR are Connex with a different name...nothing more
    A GTR Driver,ready to stand with my Conductor Brothers
     
  20. Solent&Wessex

    Solent&Wessex Established Member

    Messages:
    2,299
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2009
    TPE have said internally that all TPE services are guaranteed to have a safety critical conductor on board for the life of the franchise.

    Although that doesn't state exactly what duties they will perform on the various batches of new rolling stock. Nor does it mean that they won't change their mind in a few years should the sums not add up and savings are required.

    Having said that, I was informed that First did seriously look at DOO / DCO (no doubt in a bid to make friends with the DfT) but concluded that as they were wanting to be an Intercity operator which would guarantee on board staff, and bearing in mind the rolling stock to be operated and the routes they operate on, they concluded there was no business case for altering the current method of working.
     
  21. HLE

    HLE Established Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    27 Dec 2013
    How dare anyone have such a thing!

    Do as you are told at all times or the door is there!!!
     
  22. ANorthernGuard

    ANorthernGuard Established Member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    8 Oct 2010
    Now where did I see that like button!
     
  23. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Joined:
    22 Sep 2013
    Needless to say, it's only your personal, highly biased, view that so many of these jobs are zero hours etc. Perhaps they are in your area, but that's certainly not the case over the country as a whole. People who had to rely on benefits alone before can now genuinely feel that they are earning money in their own right - to me that's very good progress and I can't see how anyone can feel otherwise.
     
  24. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    How patronising towards those in such jobs. You believe that as you clearly support such Tory policies and are anti Union-your post history proves that. So suggesting I'm biased (rather than realistic) is rather pot, kettle, black!
     
  25. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Joined:
    22 Sep 2013
    Ok, so you're realistic.......[Ha ha ha]

    Not patronising at all. If I was on the dole and could get a job that gave me an income apart from relying on benefits then I would jump at the chance. I don't recall the Labour party doing much for those people so I'll support any party that does - a bit ironic if you feel that those improvements in my life can only be achieved by supporting the Tories.

    I don't want to derail this useful thread, so suggest that you start a fresh one if you want to discuss dole queues or Trade Unions.
     
  26. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    6,336
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    We have a Manager who regularly uses that line.
     
  27. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

    Messages:
    26,232
    Joined:
    17 Apr 2011
    Location:
    A semi-rural part of north-west England
    Never been the same since they closed the workhouses in Britain....:roll:
     
  28. Skimble19

    Skimble19 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,396
    Joined:
    12 Dec 2009
    Location:
    East Coast Mainline
    Bit like how Dyan the Wicked Witch of the South is happy to tell a room full of staff that, or in the case of managers where the nearest job centre is!! (Or was that who you were referring to? <D )
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2016
  29. jimbo99

    jimbo99 Member

    Messages:
    124
    Joined:
    6 Oct 2010
    I know a number of people on zero-hours contracts. They don't feel exploited - they just recognise they are in a business subject to peaks and troughs in demands. They generally get the hours they want and enjoy the flexibility which to some extent works both ways. Not saying all zero-hours jobs work that way.

    One of them now works for Southern and still has the same mentality about working hours though he is no longer on such a contract himself. He is waiting to train as a driver and is currently an RMT "convenor" (or whatever). Of course he sticks to the "union line", for the benefit of members.
     
  30. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

    Messages:
    10,331
    Joined:
    12 Sep 2013
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    The students I know on zero hours contracts enjoy the flexibility.

    Everyone else? They don't say they feel exploited because they know that if they upset their boss they won't be getting any hours at all. Restaurant staff, in particular, know this only too well. If bookings are a bit quiet they get sent home, no pay, even though they've just paid to get there.

    Zero hours contracts are nothing more than passing the financial risk of a quiet night in the restaurant from the wealthy hedge-fund restaurant owners to the poorest people in the business.

    Of course many people who claim to be on "zero hours contracts" are actually contractors in IT or management, which really isn't the same thing at all.
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2016
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page