ANorthernGuard
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Reading the Twitter comments almost all the Tweets are blaming Southern and NOT the Staff. I bet the Dft and Horton didn't see that coming.
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Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal
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Reading the Twitter comments almost all the Tweets are blaming Southern and NOT the Staff. I bet the Dft and Horton didn't see that coming.
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Again, it depends on what you are directly comparing. I don't believe you are making a direct comparison as you would need to observe the same dispatch procedure, at the same location, but given to either Guard or Driver. Everything else is apples and oranges and is using a crowbar to fit into a rhetoric.
What you are also doing is only observing a specific part of the whole dispatch process. When a Driver is dispatching as DOO there are a lot of factors being considered even before the close doors gets pressed.
As someone who actually does both on a regular basis I can almost categorically state that there is little difference between the two methods of dispatch when it comes to time. What I can also almost categorically state is that dispatch is specific to each location and that some take more time that others. The other day I went DOO and it was a busy commuter service. My dispatch was slow and I took my time at each stop. WOuld a Guard have been quicker ? I have no idea. Anything I would say would be 100% subjective.
As to everyone else ranting about flags and stuff. Please stop being pedantic. I never stated "the Guard receives a flag." Please note the way in which it was written "bat'n'flag" hardly a technical term. It's just an expression that's commonly used down my neck of the woods. If I told the Guard bat'n'flag was in use at station X then he/she would totally understand.
Just to clarify my comparison was based on seeing dispatch at the same station. Being carried out by dispatch staff. Dispatching both DOO services and trains with a conductor. Once pre checks had been completed. The speed from the first tip to the train pulling away was generally quicker on the DOO trains.
Anyway I know what I have seen. Changing the subject has this been shared was it handed out on picket lines?
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-launches-new-dossier-exposing-safety-risks-of-doo/
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
The attitudes shown by them so far would rather suggest that they really don't care what the public think. Unless we get Brexit and an early election it'll be nearly four years before the local Tory MPs have to worry about the commuters' votes by which time the current inconvenience will have been forgotten.
Being on my mobile I've not read it all but we'll done RMT for releasing it. I assume it took some time to compile, which is why it's out now and not sooner.
I don't know if it will a difference but hopefully.
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NorthernSpirit
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I think a Brexit would be good as it'd hold Southern's managements feet to the fire.
cjmillsnun
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Brexit would not lead to an election. It would only lead to a Tory leadership challenge and in much the same way as Brown took over from Blair, Johnson or Gove would take over from Cameron. DfT policy would not change in the slightest.
Actually if the forecasts of an economic downturn/recession due to BREXIT are accurate you may well be wrong. In such a situation further cuts would be necessary which would make a harder line DfT approach over DOO etc more likely.
How much harder can it get?
Logically we will see an economic downturn and that ought to mean more belt-tightening, but I can't see Cameron retaining leadership and I would expect BoJo and his cronies to carry on putting political expediency first and the country's coffers some way behind.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
That assumes the DfT's plan has anything to do with cost saving. Like with their attacks on barristers, solicitors, nurses, junior doctors and other NHS staff, it has nothing to do with money and everything to do with a poisonous desire to put the oiks in their place. I, for one, cannot see anything changes should the ordurous Johnson and Gove take charge of the country.
NorthernSpirit said:
You mean like how Charles Horton's career has suffered from the catastrophic failure of Connex? And how Piero McCarthy's career has suffered from the failure of Serco/Abellio at Northern?
Looks like the staff at Horsham are not having a good time!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-turned-journey-home-FIVE-HOUR-ordeal.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-turned-journey-home-FIVE-HOUR-ordeal.html
I wonder if they have the staffs permission to post it online and whether they gave permission to be videoed like that ?
I would be taking legal advice from the RMT if I had been filmed and broadcast without permission
The last time somebody took my photograph I took theirs as well, they didn't like it and started mouthing off about their yoomun roites etc and when I asked about them taking my picture and my human rights they just looked confused.
If they can take my picture I can take theirs, simples.
I feel sorry for them. That's not staff not caring, that's staff who are obviously working in a workplace where morale is through the floor, trying to deal with a near enough unsolvable problem with clearly no help from above and approaching the end of their tether, with each other and the job. Seems like one guy is desperately trying to create platform space while the other is trying to get a train to London.
Where are the architects Dyan and Charles? No doubt a million miles away...
Sprinter153
Member
Round here the advice is that we can't stop anyone from filming or photographing so we should just allow it. Unfortunately it seems to be the latest thing. If I'm not doing something to someone's satisfaction, I'm really not going to relent if they're defaulting to plastering me all over social media.
Of course with the token word, 'disgrace'. It seems every railway complaint has to include the word. :roll:
Flamingo
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We have been told we can not stop anybody taking our picture/filming us, but under no circumstances are we to take theirs.
Last time, I just turned my back and walked away, to his shouts of "Come back here and let me take your picture".
Last time, I just turned my back and walked away, to his shouts of "Come back here and let me take your picture".
Its also people on the ground not being allowed to resolve problems and that the decisions come from control and the staff have to deal with the fallout.
The decision to send a train into a platform where it will potentially block the line for an unknown length of time is never an easy one but it happens far to often and then people go around blaming each other.
Happened at Blackfriars just yesterday.
On that tweet feed one of the delays mentioned was due to lack of Drivers and not lack of Guards and that one comment I read has now stated that staff are reluctant to work overtime !
*edit*
The video is from June 10th. Was that a strike day ?
The decision to send a train into a platform where it will potentially block the line for an unknown length of time is never an easy one but it happens far to often and then people go around blaming each other.
Happened at Blackfriars just yesterday.
On that tweet feed one of the delays mentioned was due to lack of Drivers and not lack of Guards and that one comment I read has now stated that staff are reluctant to work overtime !
*edit*
The video is from June 10th. Was that a strike day ?
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I take it no journalists have ever argued in their entire life or gone off on one?
The scrum where they try to photograph someone or get an interview question or two is probably not far off.
In all walks of life in work places you get occasional arguments and heated moments. Only difference is this is public facing.
Let one journalist cast the first stone.
I wonder if Southern will now bring bring disrepute proceedings against the staff. If they could get rid of them, be two less to deal with later on! I certainly hope not.
Anyone know how it was resolved?
The Daily Mail don't give a date so I'll assume it wasn't so recent. I wonder how much the commuter got paid as swns.com pay for picture stories.
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Jamesb1974
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ChathillMan
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When you see how the people on the ground are dealing with the ongoing issues you do have to empathise with them.
Can anyone actually get the link to open in a format that is readable?
I was told the same (not surprising really
) but I told them either I will walk away if possible or if not possible then I will get my camera out (I always have a camera in my pocket/bag) and take their picture, if the person has a problem then they can report me and Management can do as they see fit and if I am not happy with the outcome I will do what I have to do after that, they did 'get' what I meant, protection of staff while on duty etc. --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, it is bl--dy brilliant and explains the varied duties of the guard and how the guard has helped out during incidents in a clear, concise manner.
Whoever wrote that deserves a medal!
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We are not allowed to stop passengers and customers filming or taking photographs of us but without our consent this cannot be really used as evidence. It is not fair that the staff at Horsham have been shown in the media in such a manner.
People forget that the frontline suffer just as much and if not more than the customers. This is because they deal with hundreds of customers who are stranded and trying to get home and after work join the customers in the same boat as many staff use the train to get home too.
People forget that the frontline suffer just as much and if not more than the customers. This is because they deal with hundreds of customers who are stranded and trying to get home and after work join the customers in the same boat as many staff use the train to get home too.
Most guards will only lose two days pay. We generally work a four day week so will be rest day on one strike day and rostered to work on the other two.
The Sunday is paid as overtime so whether you have actually "lost" any pay for that is debatable?.........
The announcement for striking on the three "working" days was to focus the minds of the management that we are serious about this dispute and the future ramifications thereof. I believe that the plan is to strike on every Sunday until further notice with the odd additional weekday thrown in for good measure.
Ho hum........
A station, platform or inside of a train is classed as a public space. Any member of the public can film or take pictures in any public space they like and they don't need anybodies permission to do so.
I'm fairly sure the film could be used as evidence as long as it's authenticity is clear. You will often find that the media care little about how people look or fairness as long as they sell papers. I have seen then take pictures of people seriously injured in accidents without any regard to how they might feel about being photographed.
I'm sure many will disagree, they are private property, not designated a public space.
I understand that they are private property. However when you invite the public into a space even if they have to pay the space then becomes public for the period of time the public has access to it. That's why you cant have a knife in a station but you can in your home.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It can be made a condition of admission to such a space that photographs are not taken, however, and it can be treated as trespass if they then do. The railway has chosen not to impose this condition, but other places, like some shopping centres and for obvious reasons most swimming pools, do.
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