Southern remove advance fares on East Coastway trains after 21.30

[neilm831]

As from November 23rd


Example A 22.47 train from London Victoria to Eastbourne the cost of the train will be £31.30 instead of £5

When I first queried this on the southern rail twitter feed I was advised they have technical problems.

However as they have been unable to rectify the fault the outcome is this reply from them

We do not have an obligation to put Advance tickets on specific trains, just because they existed in the past. We review and assess quotas and trains based on capacity, time of travel and passenger demand. Huw

I understand this,however fares to Brighton remain late night where as a £5,£8 or £11 fare withdrawal is some increase without any publicity
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was also advised to take a train 37 mins earlier indirectly to Brighton and then catch another one after many years of getting an advance fare from Victoria direct to Eastbourne..impossible to get to Victotia for an earlier train so effectively £26.30 increase with no warning or an increase of £8 if travelling return same day

 

[telstarbox]

The DaySave Off-Peak ticket is cheaper than £31.30. It still needs to be booked online in advance.

The DaySave ticket is an off-peak pass available for unlimited travel on Southern services on the date shown on the ticket. This ticket is only available online, and is only valid on the Southern network. Not valid on Gatwick Express.

DaySave costs just £17.90 per adult, or in a group (valid for a minimum of three and maximum of four passengers, who must travel together) DaySave costs just £35.80.

DaySave can be used as follows:

Anytime on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays
Not before 10:00 Monday to Friday
Not between 16:15 and 19:15 Monday to Friday when boarding trains from East Croydon and London stations (Victoria, London Bridge and Clapham Junction)

 

[bb21]

Unfortunately if you cannot be flexible then you are at the mercy of train companies. Cheap Advance fares get removed from different flows all the time so it is nothing special.

The DaySave ticket is an option but it needs to be booked at least 3 days in advance.

 

[neilm831]

Yep very much aware of that option...just is more of a withdrawal of southern fares than previously seen... No advance fares after 9.30pm is a big withdrawal


Advance £17.90 fare used to be £15 and cheaper than that...Big increase here.


Fares to Brighton remain £5 well after 9.30pm so £7.90 is still a hefty increase if unable to travel back before this

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are engineering works on the East Coastway after 2200 during that week, with some trains being replaced by buses. They will usually hold back Advance tickets until they know which trains will be affected.

I have just looked at the Southern website and there is a £5 single available on the 2247 every week night during week commencing 23 November. And on 30 November. And on 5 December...

 

[pepperpot80]

To confirm Arctic Troll's comment, see attached screenshot from National Rail Enquiries

It's worth noting that the NRE booking horizons page shows that tickets are only available to 04/12/15, while other TOCs are booking well into January, so Southern may well be holding back over what will surely be an exceptionally busy Christmas & New Year, especially with the engineering work at Purley.

 

[neilm831]

Thanks for feedback on this issue

I am aware im not entitled to a £5 advance fare and that things do get discontinued but when its not publically announced and you are informed a website glitch is the reason its not available then you begin to question it.


I personally want a £5 advance fare on Dec 15th on the 22.47 train...formerly used to be able to catch the 00.05 train but that was withdrawn,so when you begin to see further advance fares removed yet no impact on the Brighton trains you feel blimey why are they [Brighton] residents so special.

Ive already been made aware the Dec 15th travel date fare has not been released due to a new timetable,however with the fares from Nov 23rd to Dec 12th not having advance fares after 21.30 you think is this permanent!!!!
{
Also been made awre due to Purley engineering works my travel between boxing day and 3rd January will be 90 mins longer and £8 more expensive!!!!!!Advance fares definately withdrawn at any time of day over this period and a first!!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Fares have now been released after 21.30...ironic when i extend my misgivings to a national railway forum that all of a sudden they release them,however just like last 3 or 4 months after 21.30 on a saturday night advance fares remain withdrawn...perhaps they want more money from those who use east coast line and they get less trouble from those late night revellers on the Brighton train who can still travel with an advance fare!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So having finally put the fares on having stepped up publicly on here..I am able to travel for £5 on the 22.47 for £5 if I required it leaving london victoria to Eastbourne on DEC 8th...the following tuesday dec 15th I am not able to book it and its not 12 weeks away

I bet this fare is not released when they know how badly I want it. The twitter team have been toying with me knowing my requirement...Human nature to take away something someone lets on they need!!!!

 

[telstarbox]

You're overthinking it mate.

 

[neilm831]

You're overthinking it mate.

Thats a fair statement...just frustrated the time Ive spent on communication with southern rail and the different replies given
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there was an error in the system, thanks for highlighting. Huw

This later became statement in red above..so mixed feedback don't help me

 

[gray1404]

Both Southern and London Midland (and it would not surprise me if South Eastern were the same) are taking forever opening up Advance reservation quotos for the end on December onwards at the moment for some reason.

 

[neilm831]

Both Southern and London Midland (and it would not surprise me if South Eastern were the same) are taking forever opening up Advance reservation quotos for the end on December onwards at the moment for some reason.

<<Sent to Station Eastbourne and probably every other station on the Victoria to Hastings line

 

[gray1404]

View attachment 24341 <<Sent to Station Eastbourne and probably every other station on the Victoria to Hastings line

Any change you could rescan that or perhaps type the wording in? Its just not very clear. I am assuming it is saying there will be no Southern Advance tickets 26 December to 03 January. Would it just apply on the Victoria to Eastbourne line though or have they made this a policy across the enture Southern network for this period not to offer any advance fares?

http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/major-changes-to-southern-services-this-christmas/

I suspect in light of the above page we will not see Advances being offered on the Brighton or Littlehampton services either between the above dates.

 

[Stats]

From what i can read it says

something is back up and running again and Southern Advances are available until 12th December on normal routes.

The new timetable is considerably different and it will take some time to get back up to releasing Advances 12 weeks in advance.

There are no Southern Advances available over the Christmas period due to the engineering works at Purley.

 

[talldave]

Thats a fair statement...just frustrated the time Ive spent on communication with southern rail and the different replies given

That's just down to Southern being generally incompetent at everything though, and isn't specific to Advance ticketing. Don't take it personally.

 

[neilm831]

Hi All

A bit of an update for you,the system is now back up and running again and we now have southern advance tickets on all normal routes up to and including Saturday Dec 12th 2015 the last date of the current timetable.

I am now working through the new timetable but as this is considerably different especially services between Brighton and London Victoria this will take a bit longer to get us back to our aim of having these available a full 12 weeks ahead.

Also for information there will be no southern Advance tickets available for sale for travel between the Christmas and New Year holiday period (26/12/2015-03/01/2016 inclusive) due to the Purley blockade engineering works

Thankyou for your patience

Kind regards
John


Well John whoever you are my cost is going to be £16 more because you use Purley as an excuse not to issue advance fares.

Also when you issued up to Dec 12th as I have highlighted on this thread an oversight was made to continue with the previous website fault I had been thanked for in Sept on previous released fares[now as reported above finally put back after some days of tangle with southern twitter staff!!!!!

 

[tsr]

Last time there were engineering works closing all lines at Purley over Christmas (two winters ago), it transpired the volume of passengers using the buses was at times significantly in excess of availability for all available (as in, not doing anything else) buses across the South East. I should know, I was on the ground trying to sort it out for about 9 hours a day in near-hurricane conditions, speaking to bus controllers who were coming close to tearing their hair out. And that was with trains running from Coulsdon, which won't happen this time. Even if the Mole Valley diversions work this year, there will still be considerable shortfalls against the usual rail capacity and more passengers needing buses to fewer destinations.

Therefore, I think it is eminently sensible that Advance fares are not released. Typically, for Southern, these should only be for trains were it is highly likely there will be sufficient space available for passengers attracted by these cheaper train-specific fares. Basically, this period has potential to be a time when Southern / Thameslink and other local brands/operators are operating with significantly lower capacity than usual during an exceptionally busy time of year. So unfortunately operators would rather not attract people at a price point which means their services become overly attractive.

As for Advance fares being released on the basis of a couple of tweets... I know you appreciate you are overthinking it, but I have to still point out that this is not the way business arrangements would be conducted - it would be laughable if the release of Advances for the majority were decided by the discussion of a few passengers on Twitter.

 

[neilm831]

As for Advance fares being released on the basis of a couple of tweets... I know you appreciate you are overthinking it, but I have to still point out that this is not the way business arrangements would be conducted - it would be laughable if the release of Advances for the majority were decided by the discussion of a few passengers on Twitter.

I just happened to point out on the previously released fares why no advance services after 2100 to which I was thanked for highlighting the website was failing to show these fares and it was indeed a glitch,then when it happened again I got different feedback from same person saying we release quotas depending on our mood cutting it short...see previous posts

 

[Frontera2]

Last time there were engineering works closing all lines at Purley over Christmas (two winters ago), it transpired the volume of passengers using the buses was at times significantly in excess of availability for all available (as in, not doing anything else) buses across the South East. I should know, I was on the ground trying to sort it out for about 9 hours a day in near-hurricane conditions, speaking to bus controllers who were coming close to tearing their hair out. And that was with trains running from Coulsdon, which won't happen this time. Even if the Mole Valley diversions work this year, there will still be considerable shortfalls against the usual rail capacity and more passengers needing buses to fewer destinations.

Therefore, I think it is eminently sensible that Advance fares are not released. Typically, for Southern, these should only be for trains were it is highly likely there will be sufficient space available for passengers attracted by these cheaper train-specific fares. Basically, this period has potential to be a time when Southern / Thameslink and other local brands/operators are operating with significantly lower capacity than usual during an exceptionally busy time of year. So unfortunately operators would rather not attract people at a price point which means their services become overly attractive.

As for Advance fares being released on the basis of a couple of tweets... I know you appreciate you are overthinking it, but I have to still point out that this is not the way business arrangements would be conducted - it would be laughable if the release of Advances for the majority were decided by the discussion of a few passengers on Twitter.

Reference your last paragraph, there is actually some truth in what the OP is saying here believe it or not
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Both Southern and London Midland (and it would not surprise me if South Eastern were the same) are taking forever opening up Advance reservation quotos for the end on December onwards at the moment for some reason.

SE are open into January

 

[neilm831]

Reference your last paragraph, there is actually some truth in what the OP is saying here believe it or not
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


SE are open into January

Well when the fault first appeared I recognised it back in sept ..my tweet was thanked for bringing it to their attention, when i noticed further incompetence on the fact it was not given attention when releasing recent batch of fares the feedback was different regarding released fares,then when i stepped up publicity about the 22.47 fare being increased by £26.30 [without daysaver] all of a sudden it appeared although a number of trains after 9.30pm have lost the advance fare still.


I find it very unfair they cant provide a £5 advance fare after 9.30pm on a saturday night to Eastbourne but continue to look after their customers who live in Brighton!!!
They do want to cut back on them this is obvious and the glitch has worked out convenient for them!!!

 

[talldave]

But are you muddling up their incompetence with fixing glitches (unacceptable, but unsurprising as always) with their prerogative to offer advance fares when and where they want to?

Advance fares are a bonus not an entitlement, surely?

 

[neilm831]

But are you muddling up their incompetence with fixing glitches (unacceptable, but unsurprising as always) with their prerogative to offer advance fares when and where they want to?

Advance fares are a bonus not an entitlement, surely?

If they feel the need after a few years that they cant provide an advance fare for the 22.47 train meaning some customers have to pay £26.30 more unless knowlege of a day saver not obtainable at a station then to provide advance fares on nearly every other time slot is mean spirited and sucks.

If the fares are going up tell us rather than remove them with no publicity and hope we dont notice

If I have to pay full fare from now on because I can only travel after 9.30pm then everybody who lives in Brighton should pay full fare too

 

[bb21]

If they feel the need after a few years that they cant provide an advance fare for the 22.47 train meaning some customers have to pay £26.30 more unless knowlege of a day saver not obtainable at a station then to provide advance fares on nearly every other time slot is mean spirited and sucks.

If the fares are going up tell us rather than remove them with no publicity and hope we dont notice

It sucks, of course, but that is all.

Advance fares are always subject to availability, unlike flexible walk-on fares, so there is no guarantee that any would be on sale. As I said before, if you cannot be flexible then you are at the mercy of the train companies. It does not just apply to you, it applies across board.

I can feel your (rightful) frustration, but Southern haven't really done anything wrong in that respect.

If they did not fix the glitches in a timely manner then by all means raise a complaint, but that is a separate issue.

If I have to pay full fare from now on because I can only travel after 9.30pm then everybody who lives in Brighton should pay full fare too

That I really don't understand. You cannot have it so no one should be able to?

There are many flows in this country without Advance fares, should passengers making those journeys regularly complain that you had it really good for many years because £5 is not a true reflection on the cost of providing the service hence the withdrawal was only fair?

 

[neilm831]

That I really don't understand. You cannot have it so no one should be able to?

There are many flows in this country without Advance fares, should passengers making those journeys regularly complain that you had it really good for many years because £5 is not a true reflection on the cost of providing the service hence the withdrawal was only fair?

Yeah I was just venting my spleen...all reason goes out the window after pages of twitter communication with southern rail and some of the team on there who are all over the place with understanding issue involved.

 

[suzanneparis]

If it makes you feel any better you should try booking tickets between Leicester and London. Eye watering prices in my opinion.

 

[talldave]

.....all reason goes out the window after pages of twitter communication with southern rail and some of the team on there who are all over the place with understanding issue involved.

On that point I am 100% with you. Southern appear to specialise in employing people who don't understand plain English, cannot click on a URL to view a web page and are incapable of understanding or answering anything other than the most basic of questions.

They always seems surprised by issues of their own making. They don't understand their own Off Peak tickets for a start and when the Gold Card rules changed, they seemed almost surprised when I complained that they hadn't updated their ticket machines to reflect the changes. Any competent organisation would plan all the necessary changes in advance. The only thing Southern excel at is being incompetent.

 

[infobleep]

It sucks, of course, but that is all.

Advance fares are always subject to availability, unlike flexible walk-on fares, so there is no guarantee that any would be on sale. As I said before, if you cannot be flexible then you are at the mercy of the train companies. It does not just apply to you, it applies across board.

I can feel your (rightful) frustration, but Southern haven't really done anything wrong in that respect.

If they did not fix the glitches in a timely manner then by all means raise a complaint, but that is a separate issue.



That I really don't understand. You cannot have it so no one should be able to?

There are many flows in this country without Advance fares, should passengers making those journeys regularly complain that you had it really good for many years because £5 is not a true reflection on the cost of providing the service hence the withdrawal was only fair?

I think if someone gets a good fare then good luck to them. They obvious live and travel to the right places to obtain this.

One of the reasons I use to justify splitting my tickets and trying to save money that way is due to the fact not all flows offer advanced tickets and it's not just about how popular services are.

I can get an advanced ticket to Bournemouth from Guildford but not to Hastings, the latter journey involves two train companies, the former doesn't.


I also less keen on the fact if I stay over in Farnham, it costs me an extra £4 vers going back the same day, as a day return is about 5p more than a single, with my rail card discount, and you can't get a overnight return. I don't begrudge paying more for an overnight return but do begrudge having to buy two singles. It could however be argued that the day return is not a fair reflection of costs.

I would also like to be able to multi buy blocks of trains tickets between two destinations at a discount but that's not offered and again it won't be any time soon.

So I equally won't change my stance of looking for cheap rail fares. However I don't begrudge others getting cheap fares if they can.

 

[neilm831]

On that point I am 100% with you. Southern appear to specialise in employing people who don't understand plain English, cannot click on a URL to view a web page and are incapable of understanding or answering anything other than the most basic of questions.

They always seems surprised by issues of their own making. They don't understand their own Off Peak tickets for a start and when the Gold Card rules changed, they seemed almost surprised when I complained that they hadn't updated their ticket machines to reflect the changes. Any competent organisation would plan all the necessary changes in advance. The only thing Southern excel at is being incompetent.

They have been released between Nov 23rd and Dec 12th but error on website not showing fares on website..been telling you over a week..without being rude are you UK born? You don't seem to grasp the complaints. <<<<<<< One feedback I gave!!!! I had a reply about my multiple tweets as if that were my intention..I was forced into them..Rolleyez
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Eastbourne used to have funfares on National Express, not that I used the, but I would consider option but only BExhill,Hastings and Brighton get them now.

I lived in Torquay and funfares were removed so certainly get tested!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thank you for contacting us on 18th October 2015 in regards to your complaint. Please accept my apologies for the delay in our response.

I am very sorry to hear that you were dissatisfied with the previous response. I can confirm that we were made aware of an issue where Advance fares were not showing on our website.

This has since been looked into and fares for late November are now currently available.

I apologise for the inconvenience caused by this error.

Kind Regards,

Madeline Todd

Customer Service Advisor

Just had this response which is all well and good but if I try to reply I have to wait another 7 days,also no sign of a DEC 15th fare yet..rolleyes
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
@SouthernRailUK I have now had official confirmation that it was a glitch on your website,so when can I get my advance fare for DEC 15th?

SouthernRailUK ‏@SouthernRailUK · 16m16 minutes ago
@neilm831 Did inform you of this Neil. Had a response stating tomorrow. If its not tomorrow it will be closer to the 12th December. Huw

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Perhaps I'm being thick, but can't you just book - and use - a £5 advance from Victoria to Brighton, and book a another ticket, from Brighton to Eastbourne, to complete your journey ?

 

[neilm831]

Perhaps I'm being thick, but can't you just book - and use - a £5 advance from Victoria to Brighton, and book a another ticket, from Brighton to Eastbourne, to complete your journey ?

There is a 22.20 train that leaves Victoria to Brighton that enables catching 23.28 train from Brighton to Eastbourne all inclusive of the £5 charge


One snag

I cannot get to Victoria for 22.20 train. [ £5 advance fares previously available up to 00.05 past midnight to Eastbourne. [Earliest I can get to Victoria is 22.40]


Another snag

Later train that leaves to go to Brighton from Victoria for £5 arrives after last train departs Brighton to Eastbourne.

Yet another snag

if not catching a £5 train from Victoria to Brighton that gives a follow on train to Eastbourne

Its £10.80 for fare from Brighton to Eastbourne


Advance fares have not been withdrawn after 9.30pm..its a confirmed glitch,however the glitch has not repaired the midnight offering strangely!!!!

I am aware these advance fares are not a given but the fares have not been available to book not because they have not been issued because they have but they have not been appearing on site for booking meaning the fare has been missing and more expensive option only has appeared

 

[neilm831]

no fares issued yet with new timetable due to tech

issues still being the case

total shambles