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Southern start rolling out free Wi-Fi on its trains

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Class455

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Looks as though Southern are starting to roll out free Wi-Fi onto their fleet today. Had 377 601 today on a London Victoria to Caterham and noticed there were Wi-Fi stickers on the doors.

I tried the Wi-Fi,supplied by iComera and it was pretty good apart from one thing that really bugs me. It is not unlimited. There is a 50MB usage limit, therefore it blocks apps that use a high amount of data, such as Snapchat and streaming sites such as Netflix. As a Snapchatter myself, this is disappointing, and reminds me of Emirates's 10MB usage limit. however it shows Southern are taking a step in the right direction by installing Wi-Fi as part of the government's programme to equip the whole fleet of trains with Wi-Fi.

Looking forward to seeing more Southern units being equipped with Wi-Fi and hopefully they will roll it out on its Class 455's. Unless others have been done I believe 377 601 is the first Southern unit to be fitted with Free Wi-Fi
 
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FOH

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I've been using it a week or so. It's annoying you have to relogin every day though. I'm guessing it uses O2 as the closer it gets to London Bridge the more it hangs
 

tsr

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The press release was issued all the way back on the 24th July:

http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/gtr-gives-passengers-free-wi-fi-on-board-trains/

Fortunately, wifi equipment has been either installed or given allocated space (and wiring) on quite a few 377 and 171 units to date, but the original trial of wifi was scrapped several years ago, which I believe was due to reliability in the numerous local tunnels and cuttings. With more modern kit, and what seems like greater pushes by mobile operators to put phone signal in hard-to-reach areas, I reckon this is the right time. Not to mention the HM Government instructions on the matter!

I can see why there are plans to put a cap on data - remember there will probably be hundreds of potential users on certain services, and the networks around places like Clapham Junction are already bursting at the seams - and note that the press release says it will be "throttled" or slowed down after a limit is reached, rather than an absolute block on use.
 

mirodo

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I was on 2R94 1733 London Victoria to Epsom Downs this evening. Only noticed the sticker on the door as we pulled in to West Croydon, where I got off, but still had time to register and log on before the train departed.
 

Class455

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I was on 2R94 1733 London Victoria to Epsom Downs this evening. Only noticed the sticker on the door as we pulled in to West Croydon, where I got off, but still had time to register and log on before the train departed.

Did you catch the unit number by any chance? Think 377/6's are being done first.
 

jon0844

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Looks as though Southern are starting to roll out free Wi-Fi onto their fleet today. Had 377 601 today on a London Victoria to Caterham and noticed there were Wi-Fi stickers on the doors.

I tried the Wi-Fi,supplied by iComera and it was pretty good apart from one thing that really bugs me. It is not unlimited. There is a 50MB usage limit, therefore it blocks apps that use a high amount of data, such as Snapchat and streaming sites such as Netflix. As a Snapchatter myself, this is disappointing, and reminds me of Emirates's 10MB usage limit. however it shows Southern are taking a step in the right direction by installing Wi-Fi as part of the government's programme to equip the whole fleet of trains with Wi-Fi.

Looking forward to seeing more Southern units being equipped with Wi-Fi and hopefully they will roll it out on its Class 455's. Unless others have been done I believe 377 601 is the first Southern unit to be fitted with Free Wi-Fi

As it must be identical to the system on the GN 387s, I can say that it should work very well. It should use more than one operator, and it should speed cap at around 2-3Mbps. So you aren't going to get great speeds even if you are the only user and next to a 4G cell site.

It may throttle some services more than others, but my son could watch YouTube Kids for an entire journey from Cambridge to Hatfield, so clearly exceeded the 50MB. After the 50MB it seems you're cut down to 1-1.5Mbps, which is still usable.

I can't tell if you'd hit a hard cap if you went mad, but Icomera has a lot of experience providing onboard Wi-Fi and I assume this will be the very latest hardware. (I forgot to check if the access points were dual-band, and possibly even 802.11ac compatible for improved connectivity).
 

Bantamzen

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Having a cap or throttle point on a train's WiFi service makes some sense, as it will deter some people from using the service as a free download/stream point. No matter how good the receiving kit on board is, there will always be a maximum bandwidth which will vary en route. So by limiting usage you hopefully deter or prevent those people who might seek to abuse the free service for large or multiple downloads, thereby throttling the service for everybody else.
 

AM9

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Having a cap or throttle point on a train's WiFi service makes some sense, as it will deter some people from using the service as a free download/stream point. No matter how good the receiving kit on board is, there will always be a maximum bandwidth which will vary en route. So by limiting usage you hopefully deter or prevent those people who might seek to abuse the free service for large or multiple downloads, thereby throttling the service for everybody else.

Ah, some sanity here. Many have been pleading for on-board internet access for some time as an 'essential' service for travellers. I've always seen that as useful for travel information, general news access and normal web browsing as well as communication services such as Whatsapp, e-mail and some social media, (including Rail UK of course).
As soon as it is introduced, the complaints from a few start because they cannot get unlimited data and 10's of MB/s download rates. Any practical on-board system currently uses a 4G connection which by definition, could only provide a handful of passengers such service and as has been mentioned, that is assuming the local mobile network that the train system is travelling through can cope. The situation of a few users hogging the bandwidth of a free service at the expense of hundreds of users who want normal access would quickly make the service virtually useless. The TOC would then maybe impose more strict controls making access more difficult. Thus the majority would suffer from the greed of the few.
If anybody has a 'need' for high bandwidth on the move, it is up to them to have their own 4G package that provides it rather than plundering a service provided for all just because it is free.
 

maniacmartin

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They can afford to add wifi but not decent DOO cameras? I think their priorities are all wrong with these technology upgrades. It's even more strange to me given that a load of these trains will surely be replaced with class 700s soon anyway?
 

gallafent

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If anybody has a 'need' for high bandwidth on the move, it is up to them to have their own 4G package that provides it rather than plundering a service provided for all just because it is free.

I agree. I noticed in another thread that some new trains destined for somewhere on the continent were fitted with 3G/4G amplifiers … this seems like a far better solution: simply ensure that I can use my own cellular data service (for which I pay the operator) for as much of the journey as possible by maximising its reliability using antenna on the outside of the train and amplifiers to give a solid signal inside it. Much more useful than WiFi. More complex though more useful would be to use multi-operator backhaul then provide a multi-operator 3G and LTE femtocell in each carriage, which would then give better coverage for a given operator than just amplifying its own signal. That would cost the train operator though, whereas the antenna / amplifier solution does not (and is simpler in many other ways) and should clearly be preferred.

No need for WiFi on the train at all (as GWR have noticed, providing a service which varies between completely unusuable and barely passable, as noted in another thread …)
 

Agent_Squash

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They can afford to add wifi but not decent DOO cameras? I think their priorities are all wrong with these technology upgrades. It's even more strange to me given that a load of these trains will surely be replaced with class 700s soon anyway?

377/6 are Southern Metro, so not on the cards to be replaced. It’s still a government requirement anyhow.
 

WelshBluebird

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Ah, some sanity here. Many have been pleading for on-board internet access for some time as an 'essential' service for travellers. I've always seen that as useful for travel information, general news access and normal web browsing as well as communication services such as Whatsapp, e-mail and some social media, (including Rail UK of course).
As soon as it is introduced, the complaints from a few start because they cannot get unlimited data and 10's of MB/s download rates. Any practical on-board system currently uses a 4G connection which by definition, could only provide a handful of passengers such service and as has been mentioned, that is assuming the local mobile network that the train system is travelling through can cope. The situation of a few users hogging the bandwidth of a free service at the expense of hundreds of users who want normal access would quickly make the service virtually useless. The TOC would then maybe impose more strict controls making access more difficult. Thus the majority would suffer from the greed of the few.
If anybody has a 'need' for high bandwidth on the move, it is up to them to have their own 4G package that provides it rather than plundering a service provided for all just because it is free.

Of course caps are sensible in these kind of cases, but caps of just 50MB are not sensible at all. Even just browsing the web that has the potential to not last long at all. Just to put some actual numbers out there, 50MB is less than 25 average webpages.
 

AM9

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Of course caps are sensible in these kind of cases, but caps of just 50MB are not sensible at all. Even just browsing the web that has the potential to not last long at all. Just to put some actual numbers out there, 50MB is less than 25 average webpages.

It depends on how many modems and the number of passengers. A 4-car Electrostar accommodates about 350 to 400 passengers (seated and standing).*
The average journey time for passengers on those routes that use Electrostars is probably around 25-40 minutes. So if half of the passengers surf for most of their journey, that would be 75GB of data which would require an average of 38Mb/s plus whatever any overheads might be. Such a data rate would be needed throughout the route, especially when approaching/leaving London. With a possible high rate of lost packets, especially in hot spots where there are lots of trains in close proximity (e.g. Clapham Junction, the East Croydon/Selhurst/Norwood Junction triangle and the run from South Bermondsey through London Bridge and into Charing Cross and Cannon Street), the capacity of a simple modem even on 4G would be heavily taxed.

* A class 700/1 might only have a single modem for a train that could carry 1750 passengers, and according to some here, those passengers will be frantacally making emergency messages to the world for hours as the Thameslink core will breakdown almost every day. :)
 

jon0844

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Of course caps are sensible in these kind of cases, but caps of just 50MB are not sensible at all. Even just browsing the web that has the potential to not last long at all. Just to put some actual numbers out there, 50MB is less than 25 average webpages.
As I stated before, you don't lose access when passing 50MB. It just gets slower and not by much (at least currently) so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 

king_walnut

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The 387's on GX have unlimited WiFi and it works pretty well. Same on Southwest. I imagine the data cap on Southern is temporary until they've got everything set up and any problems ironed out.
 

7031

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In fairness I can't imagine many people will be using WiFi as presumably the majority of people have access to 3G now? I can see this mostly being beneficial to tourists etc who don't necessarily have a UK SIM just yet.

50MB isn't nearly enough but then if all it does is reduce in speed then I can see how that's acceptable for the majority of people. Still seems stingy though - I had 200MB on a flight recently and even that seemed a bit low despite not going anywhere near streaming video.
 

jon0844

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I don't know why they've got a 50MB limit showing, with a relatively small difference in throttling.

Although I did have a thought and that's the throttling when you've exceeded 50MB may vary on usage, to try and ensure those within the 50MB retain the highest speed possible.

As a way of load balancing, that would be quite logical.

Have a look at http://www.icomera.com as I'm sure the last time I looked around the site, it had quite a lot of information about how their systems worked.

Of course having your own mobile data connection is favourable, and I'm sure a lot of tourists now enjoy inclusive roaming (and not just those from within the EU) but Wi-Fi is still something a lot of people prefer to use.

Over time that may change, especially with security concerns over using public Wi-Fi, but there's a perception for many that you use mobile data only when there's no Wi-Fi.
 

Mordac

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I don't know why they've got a 50MB limit showing, with a relatively small difference in throttling.

Although I did have a thought and that's the throttling when you've exceeded 50MB may vary on usage, to try and ensure those within the 50MB retain the highest speed possible.

As a way of load balancing, that would be quite logical.

Have a look at http://www.icomera.com as I'm sure the last time I looked around the site, it had quite a lot of information about how their systems worked.

Of course having your own mobile data connection is favourable, and I'm sure a lot of tourists now enjoy inclusive roaming (and not just those from within the EU) but Wi-Fi is still something a lot of people prefer to use.

Over time that may change, especially with security concerns over using public Wi-Fi, but there's a perception for many that you use mobile data only when there's no Wi-Fi.

One consideration is that using WiFi is less battery intensive than mobile data, and that most people don't buy tablets with 3 or 4G capabilities.
 

jon0844

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I usually tether to my laptop and tablet, but power consumption is a good point.
 
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Which units have been done now? Is it the 377/6s First?

Yesterday, I travelled on 377 607, which had Wi-Fi, and 377 613, which didn't.

I also have to praise Southern as the internet connection was great and it never slowed for me, just going over 50Mb, not much more as it was a metro service.
 
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FOH

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Pretty sure I was on a 377/7 last week which had it. The455 home didn't ??????
 

infobleep

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On board WiFi will be most grateful during disruption. One can check how the trains are doing and if alternatives have been agreed with other operators.

OBSs, guards and drivers may not always beware of disruptions and the alternatives available to passengers.

If I wish to do some remote business working on the train though, the speed probably isn't fast enough. Sending e-mails would work but not much else.
 

Hophead

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Browsed this very forum from a 377/1 on Sunday evening.
 
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mirodo

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On board WiFi will be most grateful during disruption. One can check how the trains are doing and if alternatives have been agreed with other operators.

OBSs, guards and drivers may not always beware of disruptions and the alternatives available to passengers.

If I wish to do some remote business working on the train though, the speed probably isn't fast enough. Sending e-mails would work but not much else.

I have yet to find a situation where the onboard wifi has provided a faster browsing experience that my phones native 3G/4G.
 

WelshBluebird

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I have yet to find a situation where the onboard wifi has provided a faster browsing experience that my phones native 3G/4G.

Granted not on Southern, but on GWR there has been more than one occasion where I didn't have 3G or 4G signal but the onboard WiFi was working. When I have had 3G or 4G, then I've had the same experience as you where my mobile connection is faster. But sometimes the network you are on doesn't have signal (or it drops to 2G or Edge).
 
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