Southern ticket machines being deceptive

[furlong]

Where you are investment has probably been made in the software and hardware that makes it possible to implement those kind of changes for a marginal cost.

I don't think the cost of implementation is a particularly relevant factor in a decision about whether or not to comply with the law, but the size and likelihood of any fine for not doing so might be.

IMO ticket machines should be held to the same standards as face-to-face sales.

I don't think the law makes any distinction - the required standards are the same. We might debate the degree of success of certain elements of the user interfaces, but nobody can dispute that fact that some TOCs like LNER and Northern are making genuine efforts to comply. It's the TOCs that have done nothing beyond putting inaccurate disclaimers onto their machines that are the problem.

 

[SteveM70]

But people spend time researching the cost of electricity, broadband, a new washing machine and many other things - why not train fares as well?

Because there is a fundamental difference between researching the non-urgent source of your domestic services at your leisure from your armchair, and choosing a train ticket on a TVM when the train is about to arrive and there’s a queue of chuntering fellow travellers behind you.

You wouldn’t need to do such research to buy from a manned ticket office, so if TOCs want the (presumably significant) benefit of reduced labour costs and/or reduced fare evasion through the provision of TVMs, then they should be expected to provide an equivalent level of service and held to account when they don’t

 

[AlbertBeale]

But people spend time researching the cost of electricity, broadband, a new washing machine and many other things - why not train fares as well?

A once-in-a-number-of-years purchase, where there are different shops selling different washing machines, etc, is not comparable to the provision of what should be an integrated service like public transport. I no more expect that people should have to "research" before going to their local station to get on a train for a short simple point-to-point journey, than they should have to if they go to the end of their road to get on a bus.

(As an aside, I don't want to have to research electricity costs either; I preferred it when the reality of the fact that the same wires brought the same electrons into your home regardless [apologies for tongue-in-cheek avoidance of strict quantum "realities" here!], meant that there was just one publicly-owned organisation you paid the bills to. Competition is wasteful - and it increases inequalities in society - when applied to what could and should be "natural monopoly" public services.)

 

[AlbertBeale]

Because there is a fundamental difference between researching the non-urgent source of your domestic services at your leisure from your armchair, and choosing a train ticket on a TVM when the train is about to arrive and there’s a queue of chuntering fellow travellers behind you.

You wouldn’t need to do such research to buy from a manned ticket office, so if TOCs want the (presumably significant) benefit of reduced labour costs and/or reduced fare evasion through the provision of TVMs, then they should be expected to provide an equivalent level of service and held to account when they don’t

Spot on - just what I meant to say!! (Except the first sentence perhaps should be "shouldn't" not "wouldn't"...)

 

[Haywain]

All I can say is that people who choose not to research things in advance will be surprised at the level of bus fares in some areas, let alone train fares. I prefer to know what I'm going to be expected to pay for both goods and services.

 

[Wallsendmag]

All I can say is that people who choose not to research things in advance will be surprised at the level of bus fares in some areas, let alone train fares. I prefer to know what I'm going to be expected to pay for both goods and services.

I for one was shocked at the bus fares in Lelystad

 

[SteveM70]

All I can say is that people who choose not to research things in advance will be surprised at the level of bus fares in some areas, let alone train fares. I prefer to know what I'm going to be expected to pay for both goods and services.

So let’s assume that people do what you advocate. Do you think it’s reasonable for the man on the Clapham omnibus (or train in this case perhaps) to understand exactly what each ticket is? Do you think the terminology lends itself to easy understanding? Do you think it’s helpful when booking a day return that the TVM offers an open return - except it’s called an anytime short distance return - with the comment “best for flexibility”?

 

[plugwash]

than they should have to if they go to the end of their road to get on a bus.

Sadly at least round here getting busses without doing your research can easilly lead to getting screwed. Drivers sell people operator-specific day tickets without warning them about the implications (in particular on some routes the subsidised evening service is run by a different operator from the commercial daytime service).

 

[paddington]

It would help if bus operators actually make it possible to find out the fare without having to phone them, which isn't going to work when I want to check 10 different routes. Some operators do now reveal their fares online which is good.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Sadly at least round here getting busses without doing your research can easilly lead to getting screwed. Drivers sell people operator-specific day tickets without warning them about the implications (in particular on some routes the subsidised evening service is run by a different operator from the commercial daytime service).

Blimey - where's "round here"? I'm not a regular user of many buses outside London, so perhaps I'm not used to how they are in many places.

 

[plugwash]

Greater Manchester.

Some areas have it worse, at least we do have any-operator tickets (an any operator day ticket is £6, compared to £5 for a stagecoach only one) even if you generally have to ask for them explicitly rather than being offered them. Some places don't have them at all.

London bus services are a dream compared to bus services basically anywhere else in the country.

 

[Grumpy Git]

London bus services are a dream compared to bus services basically anywhere else in the country.

I'm sure the vast majority of those making the decisions have no experience of anything but London public transport?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Sadly at least round here getting busses without doing your research can easilly lead to getting screwed. Drivers sell people operator-specific day tickets without warning them about the implications (in particular on some routes the subsidised evening service is run by a different operator from the commercial daytime service).

If I want to use local buses in Welwyn Garden City on a weekend (and know beforehand that I will), I buy a railcard discounted super off-peak single to Hatfield and add a Plus Bus ticket (also discounted) and collect them during my weekday commute.
Total cost £3.70, which undercuts the cheapest bus return ticket from my home to the town centre. It also gives me the flexibility to use any operator and I can make multiple journeys.
This may, in many other places, be a good way to obtain a 'day saver' where there are multiple operators of bus services

 

[PeterC]

Sadly at least round here getting busses without doing your research can easilly lead to getting screwed. Drivers sell people operator-specific day tickets without warning them about the implications (in particular on some routes the subsidised evening service is run by a different operator from the commercial daytime service).

We are drifting a bit off topic here. However I have seen passengers in "discussion" with a driver when they didn't realise that their previous driver had sold them an operator specific ticket rather than the better advertised cross-operator one.

 

[Iggy12a]

Coming back on topic, the Southern ticket machines fail to offer Super Off Peak fares from Southern stations to stations in the Warwick area, set by Chiltern with a restriction code of PU. As an example, this is a screen shot of the fares offered from Crawley to Warwick via Banbury. There is a Super Off Peak single fare of £49.80, but if you just turned up at the station without having done your research, you would presumably end of paying £68.50.
There is no disclaimer on the machine to say that cheaper tickets may be available from the ticket office.