Southern Trains Refund Advice

[gingerheid]

Hello

I'd be grateful for any assistance...

In brief

On 12/11/12 at 0115 I bought a ticket for travel the same day from the Southern website. I intended to travel on a train at 0745 later that morning.

When I tried to collect the ticket it my booking reference didn't work on two of the machines, and I queued for the ticket office, missing the train. They couldn't issue the ticket either, and said I would have to buy a replacement and claim a refund. I bought the replacement ticket with the same card as I would have been using to collect the original, and also immediately forwarded the e-mail to Southern with a message saying that I hadn't been able to pick up the tickets, lest they claimed that computers always work and that I must have not had the right card or have forgotten the reference number.

On 16/11/12 at 2104 I bought another ticket for travel at 0645 the next morning. As my local station has particular problems with queuing when tourists arrive to go to London on Saturday mornings (such as http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Chaos-and-anger-at-station-16102012.htm ) I tried to collect the tickets at 0030 the next morning, but the machine didn't recognise the code and I again had to purchase replacement tickets.

Southern have told me that they require hard copy proof that I bought tickets, and have told me that they will deduct the administration fee from the refunds, and have responded to them as follows:

Your response is outrageous, and entirely illegal.

You breached the contract, and you are obliged to refund me in full.

As you have refused to do so and have stated that you will charge a fee, and as you are being wilfully obstructive by demanding hard copy proof of what you well know was an electronic purchase that you have been provided details of, I will proceed with a chargeback claim via the credit card company used.

I naturally remain dis-satisfied with your reply and wish this to be escalated as a complaint. You will reply addressing this within 14 days, otherwise I will also complain to my MP.

I am going to proceed with a chargeback claim on the credit card used to buy the tickets, but I would also like to make a meaningful complaint as I feel it is rather disgusting that they are being wilfully obstructive in order to attempt to do what a lay person speaking in non-legal terms would call steal money.

Is there any way at all of doing so that might make a difference, other than going to newspapers?

I do feel that, them having made me miss my train, they should be paying me £10 rather than me them!

 

[Roverman]

I wish you the best of luck, I am still awaiting refunds totalling £104 for tickets bought in January. I write in, they reply back and then nothing. Sorely tempted to take them to the Small Claims Court!

 

[sheff1]

Is there any way at all of doing so that might make a difference, other than going to newspapers?

I don't know, but Southern clearly have a problem which they seem unable/unwilling to fix.

I had an almost identical problem in May this year where I was forced to buy replacement tickets and missed the train in the process. Southern did not try and charge me the £10 admin fee, but I had to make two quite lengthy paid for phone calls as well as paying postage before they finally refunded me.

Since then I never book tickets via Southern.

I do feel that, them having made me miss my train, they should be paying me £10 rather than me them!

Indeed.

 

[bb21]

If you still haven't collected your tickets, then you are eligible for a refund under their Rainy Day Guarantee if it is a walk-on ticket or a Southern Advance. Does your booking fall under one of these categories?

That shouldn't matter although, as you are entitled to a full refund anyway in your circumstance, nevertheless in my experience do be prepared for a lengthy process although you will get your money back at the end.

Southern are in the wrong here, however may I point out that the tone of your reply is not really conducive to an amicable resolution.

 

[gingerheid]

Southern are in the wrong here, however may I point out that the tone of your reply is not really conducive to an amicable resolution.

This was my third message; the first two were polite!

I wish you the best of luck, I am still awaiting refunds totalling £104 for tickets bought in January. I write in, they reply back and then nothing. Sorely tempted to take them to the Small Claims Court!

I actually started drafting my reply as a Letter Before Action, before realising that it would be easier to go down the chargeback route.

I use Southern to buy tickets because of the problems at the ticket office in Cambridge and rainy day guarantee, but the truth of the matter is that I've always travelled anyway, so the fact that I've just been left with them owing me for two lots of tickets means it's backfired badly.

They said at the ticket office that there's a real problem with picking up Southern tickets and that they think you might be best leaving a clear day before picking them up, but that they'll probably randomly pop out the machine some other time in future when I put the card in, and suggested I use a different card for tickets until I get the refund in case they start trying to say that I have collected them.

 

[Roverman]

Spookily I've had two letters today from Southern Customer 'services', the first one stating I cannot have a refund as they can't find the tickets I sent them over 10 months ago even though I very helpfully sent them a copy of my bank statement the other week to help speed things along.

The second letter, containing the same reference, states my request cannot be fulfiled because I haven't read the 'Conditions of Carriage' about buying the correct tickets?!

I asked for a refund because the dates of my mothers Oncologist appointments were cancelled (and then rearranged for different dates) and the tickets were no good. Sadly I bought them on a debit card so have no 'Chargeback' facility to call upon although my Bank says they can intervene if the company stop communicating with me.

I think Southern must now rank lower than Northern or LM for customer satisfaction!

 

[island]

Debit cards do offer chargebacks but AFAIK only within 120 days of purchase.

 

[bb21]

Spookily I've had two letters today from Southern Customer 'services', the first one stating I cannot have a refund as they can't find the tickets I sent them over 10 months ago even though I very helpfully sent them a copy of my bank statement the other week to help speed things along.

I think it is time to at least involve Passenger Focus in this. This is beyond a joke.

 

[Roverman]

Currently scribing a reply which will be sent to Chris Burchell their MD and a CC to Passenger Focus.

They have this rather old fashioned idea that they can't issue money without the tickets, yet as I booked via their website through a logged in account the transaction shows in the history!

 

[bb21]

Currently scribing a reply which will be sent to Chris Burchell their MD and a CC to Passenger Focus.

They have this rather old fashioned idea that they can't issue money without the tickets, yet as I booked via their website through a logged in account the transaction shows in the history!

Did you collect your tickets?

 

[Roverman]

Yes and they were returned to them back in January when I made the refund request via the Southern Account. This is the first time in the correspondence that they have admitted they don't have the tickets this suggests to me that they did have them and have subsequently lost them, hoping I would go away.

 

[bb21]

I guess you did not obtain proof of postage at the time?

Not sure how effective it is writing to the MD, however I would definitely involve Passenger Focus. Some people loathe them, yet they helped me resolve a long-standing dispute (six months to be precise) with Southern, amongst others, with Southern eventually admitting their mistake and sending me some travel vouchers.

 

[GodAtum]

That is why every time I am delayed I claim for a refund. It works out at only a few £ a time but hopefully they will see how much money they are loosing.

 

[johnnycache]

i work for Southern

I would like to help resolve this problem

Can you PM any reference numbers etc so i can get this investigated

Thank you

 

[gingerheid]

I'm now confused - I had a letter yesterday saying that they would call me to process the refund within 20 days etc.

I can only assume that they've dealt with the complaint and the refund claim separately, and that the refund claim is being dealt with by people that do actually know what they're doing?

I've PMd the reference number - many thanks indeed!

 

[steadmane]

I really don't understand their Rainy Day system. Why don't they charge the card on collection after a pre-authorise on purchase? They could even give the opportunity to recieve the refund on (on-line) vouchers rather than this bizarre wait-around for a call that could come in 48 hours or 2 weeks. It must cost them more to administer the refund than most of the refund claim values.

 

[John @ home]

Why don't they charge the card on collection after a pre-authorise on purchase?

Does the banking system allow a charge to remain authorised but not completed for up to 90 days?

 

[maniacmartin]

Does the banking system allow a charge to remain authorised but not completed for up to 90 days?

I don't think so. AFAIK after about a week, the authorisation drops off.

 

[steadmane]

The pre-authorisation does drop off but that still allows the merchant to post a charge indefinitely depending on the arrangement a merchant has with a card issuer. I am not saying it's a great idea but then neither is the current system which I guess is the point. I expect a very low percentage get to the end of the Rainy Day refund road.

 

[island]

I really don't understand their Rainy Day system. Why don't they charge the card on collection after a pre-authorise on purchase? They could even give the opportunity to recieve the refund on (on-line) vouchers rather than this bizarre wait-around for a call that could come in 48 hours or 2 weeks. It must cost them more to administer the refund than most of the refund claim values.

A preauthorization will drop off after 3-14 days depending on the card scheme and bank, and to my knowledge will expire entirely after 30 days. This approach would also be cash flow negative for Southern.

 

[steadmane]

Southern have a pretty decent fares system, East Coastway to London is cheaper than Southeastern even without Advance fares. The Rainy Day refund is just a little extra bonus, I always apply for it but whether I can be bothered to return the call (I am never around for them when they call) is down to circumstance.

It would be great to be able to "opt-in" for voucher codes or something.

 

[gingerheid]

Everything magically resolved itself today, for which I think I need to think an invisible magic guiding hand from this forum