Southern's odd Wembley Central restrictions

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Harlesden

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Northbound Southern services calling at Wembley Central are advertised as set down only while southbound services are pick up only.
Why?
I was planning a day out with a One Day Travelcard tomorrow and fancied a trip from Wembley Central to Harrow & Wealdstone on a Southern service. Not possible, according to the timetable.
 
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andrew bell

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When I spoke to a guard on a service from Hemel Hempstead on April 6th I asked her about this as I wanted to change at Wembley Central to go across to Wembley Stadium as I was going to High Wycombe and was told the set down & pick up only was abolished on April 1st
 

Edvid

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The Moderation of Competition clause (in the Intercity West Coast franchise) ended on 1 April 2012 - it was responsible for said restrictions (see Southern timetables starting today).
 

Pumbaa

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The Moderation of Competition clause (in the Intercity West Coast franchise) ended on 1 April 2012 - it was responsible for said restrictions (see Southern timetables starting today).
This is the reason. As a consequence the restrictions were lifted on that day and is now a normal stop.
 

Ibex

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There are 4 London Midland trains per day (M-F) which call at Wembley Central.

As two people have mentioned above, the pick up / set down only restrictions at Wembley Central no longer apply on Southern services.
 

swt_passenger

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Does this end VT's restrictions at WFJ also?
No, because they aren't moderation of competition, they are only to prevent long distance trains filling up with local passengers, and are no
different to similar restrictions found on other routes, such as on SWT services at Clapham Jn...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Northbound Southern services calling at Wembley Central are advertised as set down only while southbound services are pick up only.
Why?
I was planning a day out with a One Day Travelcard tomorrow and fancied a trip from Wembley Central to Harrow & Wealdstone on a Southern service. Not possible, according to the timetable.
As other have said, the calls were normal from April 1st, however a new timetable was not produced.

But according to their current timetable, valid from today, SN do not call at Wembley Central on Sundays at all.
 
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island

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No, because they aren't moderation of competition, they are only to prevent long distance trains filling up with local passengers, and are no
different to similar restrictions found on other routes, such as on SWT services at Clapham Jn...
Except with SWT you know the train is picking up at Clapham Junction because the automated announcement ends with "please note this train does not stop at Clapham Junction" :)
 

infobleep

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The thing is, wasn't the Southern service effectively a local train, given that it stopped at every station beyond Wembley Central.

The onboard trains screens simply ignored Wembley Central when listing stations stopping at.

So what was the impact on the Intercity West Coast franchise of passengers getting off and on at Wembley Central?
 

Pumbaa

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I'm not entirely sure how it was decided. I assume it was due to the proximity of Wembley to Euston and the fact it was essentially a new service from Wembley that wasn't accounted for for the MoC when it was decided, and that this new service could potentially harm revenue of Wembley to MK passengers who would normally travel via London instead, thus depriving Virgin and the Treasury of revenue.

The fares are set by Southern now anyway.
 

33056

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But according to their current timetable, valid from today, SN do not call at Wembley Central on Sundays at all.
They never have done (as one of my colleaugues found out to his cost one Sunday :lol:)

With regard to the Wembley Central restriction, I have never encountered it being enforced and it has been on the auto announcers on the trains for some time now; even before that many guards would do a manual announcement for the station to stop people getting off thinking that it was Shepherds Bush (seen a few people caught out like that)
 

infobleep

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I'm not entirely sure how it was decided. I assume it was due to the proximity of Wembley to Euston and the fact it was essentially a new service from Wembley that wasn't accounted for for the MoC when it was decided, and that this new service could potentially harm revenue of Wembley to MK passengers who would normally travel via London instead, thus depriving Virgin and the Treasury of revenue.

The fares are set by Southern now anyway.
Whilst that might be true, why would anyone want to actually go and do that? Surely it would be quicker to get to and from Harrow and Wealdstone on the tube? Of course many fast trains don't stop at Harrow and Wealdstone so in those cases, Euston might well have officially been quicker

The thing is, could one buy a ticket to Wembley Central via London Euston?
 

swt_passenger

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They never have done (as one of my colleaugues found out to his cost one Sunday...
I'd assumed as much, but couldn't be bothered to look at previous timetables.

I guess if (as originally posted) FCC fan was definitely planning to travel today, he must have thought differently - or been looking at the wrong day in the old timetable?
 

Pumbaa

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Whilst that might be true, why would anyone want to actually go and do that? Surely it would be quicker to get to and from Harrow and Wealdstone on the tube? Of course many fast trains don't stop at Harrow and Wealdstone so in those cases, Euston might well have officially been quicker

The thing is, could one buy a ticket to Wembley Central via London Euston?
Yes there are 'via London' and 'not London' tickets available from Wembley.
 

johnnycache

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The West Coast franchise was indeed protected by Moderation of Competition until 31 March 2012. Wembley Central was regarded as an alternative station to London so it was not possible for passengers to join at Wembley Central for trains travelling to Milton Keynes (or vice versa). There wasn't the same problem for trains to Watford only. Everone recognised the absurdity of the application of the rule in this case but Virgin felt unable to set a precedent for accepting a relaxation of Moderation of Competition in case it came back to bite them in a more commercially important situation.
 

Eagle

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Everyone recognised the absurdity of the application of the rule in this case but Virgin felt unable to set a precedent for accepting a relaxation of Moderation of Competition in case it came back to bite them in a more commercially important situation.
Slightly more than that; I believe that because it was included in the franchise specification back in 1996, Virgin were contractually obliged to uphold the moderation of competition wherever it could apply (and failing to do so could, theoretically, lead to them being stripped of the franchise).
 

Harlesden

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Thanks for all the informative answers. In response to infobleep, I just wanted to do something different - bored with the same old Bakerloo/LO run, so wanted to do it the Southern way. I have this strange aversion to coming back the same way I went. If I went to Nottingham for example, I'd be hoping to go by the obvious direct route but come back by a different route
 
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