southport-manchester

Status
Not open for further replies.

dave4jackie

Member
Joined
4 Nov 2006
Messages
142
someone has got a monthly season ticket from southport to manchester is it valid to use via liverpool
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

CheapAndNerdy

Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
320
I don't think you can take that route. Southport to Manchester via Liverpool fails the "fares check" because a ticket to Manchester costs more travelling from Liverpool than from Southport.

It might be valid if the Liverpool route is less than 3 miles longer than the direct route, but I don't know how to check that.

=========
Edit: Having said all that, the National Rail Enquiries website indicates that you can go via Liverpool on a single ticket, so I guess it is a valid route (perhaps it is within 3 miles of the shortest route). At this point I think I need to hand over to someone with more experience of these things :eek:
 
Last edited:

Oscar

Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
11 Feb 2010
Messages
1,127
Location
Switzerland
I can't see how it could be valid. The route via Liverpool is about 15 miles longer than the shortest route and fails the fares check.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
51,597
Location
Yorkshire
It should be valid.

I see since NFM10, the Southport-Manchester SDS has gone up by a reasonable 20p (£11.50 to £11.70) however the Liverpool-Manchester SDS has gone up by 70p (£11.20 to £11.90). This means that the fare check, to determine if Liverpool Group is an appropriate Routeing Point for Southport, is no longer passed. (This check would not be necessary if Southport was a routeing point in its own right)

However, is the route not protected? Hmm...

Of course, if the Season was purchased on or before 01/01/2012 it's definitely valid via Liverpool. If it was purchased after that date, then it depends on whether or not the route is 'protected'.
 

lyndhurst25

Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,107
"Protected Routes"???

I thought that I'd just about got my head around how to use the Routeing Guide but now there's something else!

Are you saying that there are routes that are currently still valid, that aren't listed as valid routes using the current Routing Guide and fares tables, but retain their validity because they used to be listed as valid routes at sometime in the past and retain their validity due to some arbitrary protection clause, and that the information to determine exactly what these routes are is not in the public domain?

Kafkaesque springs to mind.
 
Last edited:

Oscar

Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
11 Feb 2010
Messages
1,127
Location
Switzerland
The Routeing Guide requires DfT permission to be altered and if the DfT has not be consulted the change is considered "illegal" and the old route is still legally valid, I think. This does not cover the fares check however as changes to fares affecting routeing do not actually change the Routeing Guide. I'm afraid I don't really know what a "Protected Route" is and I imagine that this is more what you are interested in in this case.
 
Last edited:

OwlMan

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2008
Messages
3,207
Location
Bedworth, Warwickshire
Yes, I think that's how I understand it as well to be honest. Routes require DfT permission to be removed and if the DfT has not be consulted the change is considered "illegal" and the old route is still legally valid, I think. Presumably this covers the fares check as well as mapped routes. I'm afraid I don't really know what a "Protected Route" is.

That is not true. The National Routeing Guide needs permission to be altered, but in this case it is not being altered.

According to ATOC an "Any Permitted ticket" is only valid on the routes shown in the NRG on the day of purchase.


Peter
 

John55

Member
Joined
24 Jun 2011
Messages
800
Location
South East
NRE offers journeys Southport to Manchester and return via Moorfields and Lime St and via Hunts Cross on the same Open return ticket as the direct route.
 

Solent&Wessex

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2009
Messages
2,439
NRE offers journeys Southport to Manchester and return via Moorfields and Lime St and via Hunts Cross on the same Open return ticket as the direct route.

Well if you follow the process of the fares check rule etc, then it would seem NRE may be wrong. Again. However, the usually more accurate East Coast site also shows at is valid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top