Phil6219
Member
Never mind Crewe it's Birmingham I'd be worried about
It's a shame but just like last year, it can happen. Sadly I won't be on this trip as it's too expensive :cry:
Phil
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Spitfire 2012
- Thread starter theblackwatch
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Never mind Crewe it's Birmingham I'd be worried about
It's a shame but just like last year, it can happen. Sadly I won't be on this trip as it's too expensive :cry:
Phil
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Drimnagh Road
Member
It would be useful is Spitfire could give an update as to the status of this tour.
Very little updates on their website of late, except to change the date of the proposed "Cumbrian Crusader V" tour from Feb 18th to tbc.
It's now nearly a week since the Growler Group advised people on their booking list that the tour isn't going to Oban, yet nothing from Spitfire. There has been various messages and hearsay on Facebook amongst others since Saturday ranging from fallouts with West Coast, money difficulties and no longer interested.
While I would not for one second believe anything that appears as a "I heard a rumour that..." story, in this day and age it doesn't help. I'm sending no cash until I hear for definite what's happening.
Very little updates on their website of late, except to change the date of the proposed "Cumbrian Crusader V" tour from Feb 18th to tbc.
It's now nearly a week since the Growler Group advised people on their booking list that the tour isn't going to Oban, yet nothing from Spitfire. There has been various messages and hearsay on Facebook amongst others since Saturday ranging from fallouts with West Coast, money difficulties and no longer interested.
While I would not for one second believe anything that appears as a "I heard a rumour that..." story, in this day and age it doesn't help. I'm sending no cash until I hear for definite what's happening.
Spitfire in 'advertised itinerary turns out to be totally unrealistic and undeliverable' shocker.
How many people will book for their 'Moon Explorer' tour, where they advertise that a pair of 37s will 'boldly go where no EE traction has gone before', only to be disappointed when it gets 'caped' at Cape Canaveral?
How many people will book for their 'Moon Explorer' tour, where they advertise that a pair of 37s will 'boldly go where no EE traction has gone before', only to be disappointed when it gets 'caped' at Cape Canaveral?
Phil6219
Member
Haha that's a good one
This happened last year with the Fort William trip, people knew months before that it was not going there but would be sent to Oban instead yet Spitfire didn't advise anyone until around a week before hand, I hadn't heard from them nor got my tickets at the two week mark (like I would normally) so emailed to see if there were any issues, thats when they told me. Like I said in that thread, perhaps they are trying to get the tour to run as planned before they advise everyone.
I've heard the WCRC rumour before, someone had mentioned that there wasn't a falling out and that it was a rumour started by a peeved party. Though I am fairly sure that someone from Spitfire has since said that West Coast have now assured them that there will not be any issues from now on (after the farce of not having stock avaliable and thus leaving Spitfire in the lurch).
Phil
junglejames
Established Member
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An update about what exactly? You only update something if there is anything to update, and right now there isnt.
Because for now, from what I can tell, there is nothing to tell you. The Growler group have obviously given out information before any final confirmation. It may be that they are correct, but if so, that is more luck than judgement, as things are still trying to be sorted out to see if the problem surrounding Oban can be sorted. So far from what I have been told.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Months? Hardly. It was suggested on the Deltic Dorset tour that FW was not possible, as the timings were pretty horrible. The timings had only just been received then, but still nothing was fully confirmed, as obviously Spitfire/ WCRC needed to go back to NR and work out what could be done.
It was only once timings to Oban had been confirmed that Spitfire had any sound news to pass on. This would have been about the time you emailed them. It wasnt a case of Spitfire refusing to tell anybody for months on end as you suggest.
Plus, just for clarification, The only reason FW was not possible was because of an extra freight train added in at the last minute. Hardly something to blame Spitfire for.
Spitfire may be guilty of expecting too much at times, but last years FW tour was not one of them, and until we know the full story behind this next tour (assuming Oban has to be pulled), its hardly fair to criticise Spitfire.
Drimnagh Road
Member
I believe initially the West Highland Way was going to be a limited load tour. A look back through my e-mails in November:
"spoke to Jo yesterday about the 04th/05th and she says that its £145 because its going to be load 6 so they have to charge more to ensure they don't make a loss on the tour, the reason its load 6 is because they intend to run one class 37 round at Mossend and top and tail into Queen Street and then onto the WHL itself"
I now believe it is now going to be load 11, which would necessite the dreaded class 47 on the back, and once a 47 is added into the equation forget about Oban.
"She also said that if bookings are high they will add coaches and miss out Queen Street, I bet they would not then alter the price to suit!"
That's an interesting point actually, and that's what appears to have happened in this case. If it is now load 11, well your economies of scale are going to be such that you can offer cheaper prices than £72.50 per day. There won't be a price reduction, and also we're missing out on Oban, and again no price reduction. Double whammy.
I think Spitfire have negated everything they have set out to achieve originally when they set up shop. Spitfire are fast turning into Pathfinder.
"spoke to Jo yesterday about the 04th/05th and she says that its £145 because its going to be load 6 so they have to charge more to ensure they don't make a loss on the tour, the reason its load 6 is because they intend to run one class 37 round at Mossend and top and tail into Queen Street and then onto the WHL itself"
I now believe it is now going to be load 11, which would necessite the dreaded class 47 on the back, and once a 47 is added into the equation forget about Oban.
"She also said that if bookings are high they will add coaches and miss out Queen Street, I bet they would not then alter the price to suit!"
That's an interesting point actually, and that's what appears to have happened in this case. If it is now load 11, well your economies of scale are going to be such that you can offer cheaper prices than £72.50 per day. There won't be a price reduction, and also we're missing out on Oban, and again no price reduction. Double whammy.
I think Spitfire have negated everything they have set out to achieve originally when they set up shop. Spitfire are fast turning into Pathfinder.
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Phil6219
Member
James - That's my mistake, I was referring to it being mentioned during the Devonian tour and thought that it was a few months before the original booked date. I also knew about the additional freight train, happened to be bad luck that it was running on the date that the tour had been rescheduled to. I'm not blaming Spitfire, if I was peeved I wouldn't be going on around 6-7 tours per year with them.
I agree that the West Highland Way is very expensive, hence why I'm not going on that one (sadly) and figured that it was because they had the stock for an extra day and needed to cover that expense, not it being load 6 however that is understandable as they need to cover the lack of general seating on the tour.
When we went to Oban last year we had 55022 leading, 11 coaches and a 47 on the rear so I don't think length is that much of an issue, though the 47 did come off before we split from the WHL properly to go on the Oban branch.
Phil
I agree that the West Highland Way is very expensive, hence why I'm not going on that one (sadly) and figured that it was because they had the stock for an extra day and needed to cover that expense, not it being load 6 however that is understandable as they need to cover the lack of general seating on the tour.
When we went to Oban last year we had 55022 leading, 11 coaches and a 47 on the rear so I don't think length is that much of an issue, though the 47 did come off before we split from the WHL properly to go on the Oban branch.
Phil
So is it now confirmed that :-
a) the tour runs ?
b) Oban is Pined ?
c) No cost reduction ?
d) Spitfire even have the stock booked ?
Or is this further speculation ??
I support Spitfire regularly on their tours but their communication strategy leaves a lot to be desired. In the absence of firm information the rumour mill gathers momentum, creating the perception of a tour company bouncing from one problem to another.
And in business...perception can be everything !
Not so. If people are expecting an update, and there isn't one, you should update them that nothing has changed, or that things are still unconfirmed. This is very basic business sense.
The tour is still 3 weeks away. The chances they are the final, confirmed and accepted timings are zero.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
One core rule of retailing that isn't it, look after your customers. I should think that to be especially important if your customers are not only regular but pay you a fair amount of hard-earned money to travel on your charter.
As 4SRKT says, even if there isn't an update as such, letting your customers know you are still awaiting other parties' decisions on issues could be considered vital, especially in an industry with plenty of competition. Retail could certainly be considered the most major example of this, rail touring obviously another.
I must say I enjoyed 4SRKT's post on this thread about a tour to the moon with EE traction. As for this tour to Oban probably not going to Oban, I can only be glad I'm not on it. I'd have probably been on it for the trip into Queen Street as well, so if it doesn't actually do that I'd be more than annoyed. In short, I'm glad I didn't take the risk with this tour and will be better off working! Sad state of affairs that, to prefer work over risking a tour...
As 4SRKT says, even if there isn't an update as such, letting your customers know you are still awaiting other parties' decisions on issues could be considered vital, especially in an industry with plenty of competition. Retail could certainly be considered the most major example of this, rail touring obviously another.
I must say I enjoyed 4SRKT's post on this thread about a tour to the moon with EE traction. As for this tour to Oban probably not going to Oban, I can only be glad I'm not on it. I'd have probably been on it for the trip into Queen Street as well, so if it doesn't actually do that I'd be more than annoyed. In short, I'm glad I didn't take the risk with this tour and will be better off working! Sad state of affairs that, to prefer work over risking a tour...
Drimnagh Road
Member
The update is that the tour is not going to Oban. The Growler Group have confirmed this, times are in Trust which confirms this. Yet that information has not been reflected by Spitfire 10 days after.
Normals or enthusiasts who don't read these forums and that are booked direct with Spitfire probably assume they are still going to Oban, unless of course they have been contacted directly.
For now though, until we get clarification from Spitfire themselves, Spitfire Railtours remains in its current guise as Doubtfire Railtours.
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junglejames
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You obviously arent following what I am getting at. Nothing whatsoever is confirmed as yet. Spitfire have said to me personally that it is still being worked on. It is looking probable that Oban will be lost, but as of now, that is not 100% confirmed. It is still being worked on. The Growler group are not able to confirm anything. The timings in Trust are never going to be the final timings. Not this far in advance.
4SRKT says when people want news, you should give them news, even if its to say there is no confirmation. But, basically at the end of the day, if Spitfire havent said anything, its fair to assume there is no confirmed news to give. So Spitfire are as good as telling you that there is nothing confirmed to tell you. So the problem?
If there is nothing to tell (which i doubt) they can set expectations. Spitfire regularly post on forums when it suits them to do so, so it is fair to say they are reading the speculation on this, and other forums.
It would not take them long to post something setting out their position and reassuring their customers. At the very least, they can state whether or not it is their intention to run the tour regardless of the clarifications they are working on - and possibly a date when they will post a further bulletin. Even if that is to say, 'we are still working on Oban'.
John Farrow gets this right time and time again. For example, an issue with traction on the "William Shakespear" tour on 30th Dec was well signalled. When it was eventually confirmed Tornado would replace the King, most already knew and understood the reasons why. Similar upfront communication on his Seal Sands tour, even though the position was ultimately recovered.
junglejames
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To be fair, If I dont hear anything, then I assume there is nothing concrete to tell.
Also, if they post on here that they are working on Oban, but dont actually have any concrete news, then to be fair, they then have to email, or call, everybody that has booked on the tour so far just in case they arent on a forum. You cant tell one forum, but not tell everybody. That is bad business practice.
That is a lot of wasted time and money when in reality, they arent actually telling you anything. Its best to wait until there is something to tell you before they make all the calls etc.
That way they only have to make 1 lot of calls (zero calls if all is sorted), instead of the 2 lots of calls if they said something now (even if all was sorted later on, they would still have to let you know of this just to clarify the original statement). The extra money it costs them to make the extra calls would eventually find its way onto your fare for future tours. Is that what you want?
Drimnagh Road
Member
updated today and Oban is definitly off the agenda.
http://spitfirerailtours.co.uk/West%20Highland%20Way.htm
http://spitfirerailtours.co.uk/West%20Highland%20Way.htm
table38
Established Member
Does anyone know why Spitfire still haven't got their full list of tours up yet for 2012? [1]
I'm already booking stuff with Compass, UK Railtours, Pathfinder and BLS well into June and may have run out of weekends and/or spare cash by the time Spitfire announce their itenerary
[1] other than The West Highland Way 4th/5th Feb, and possibly 23rd June to Penzance
I'm already booking stuff with Compass, UK Railtours, Pathfinder and BLS well into June and may have run out of weekends and/or spare cash by the time Spitfire announce their itenerary
[1] other than The West Highland Way 4th/5th Feb, and possibly 23rd June to Penzance
junglejames
Established Member
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Does anyone know why Spitfire still haven't got their full list of tours up yet for 2012? [1]
I'm already booking stuff with Compass, UK Railtours, Pathfinder and BLS well into June and may have run out of weekends and/or spare cash by the time Spitfire announce their itenerary
[1] other than The West Highland Way 4th/5th Feb, and possibly 23rd June to Penzance
If its to be believed, there is a post on WNXX that may explain it.
Im not quoting it here because it would be unfair to post such a rumour, But anyone who has seen it will know what i mean.
And those of us who haven't seen it can probably guess the content of the rumour.....
Drimnagh Road
Member
The rumour that they are going bust has been around since Christmas, mainly caused due to the lack of updates over the Oban fiasco, which we now have clarity on.
It could be that Spitfire are simply stepping it back a notch this year and running less tours after an intense 2011 & 2010. It is a part time run company with it's directors engaged in other business and family affairs.
When it started it only ran a few tours a year, and let's not forget that Retro only a run a few a year and that is also viable.
It could be that Spitfire are simply stepping it back a notch this year and running less tours after an intense 2011 & 2010. It is a part time run company with it's directors engaged in other business and family affairs.
When it started it only ran a few tours a year, and let's not forget that Retro only a run a few a year and that is also viable.
I T S
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regards this 0915 x Fort bil on the sunday what stops does it make between FW & Motherwell?
junglejames
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I love it. Having nothing to say means they are going bust. Boy oh boy. Some rumours.
I dont understand why the smallest rumour requires a company to make an announcement. What is it about waiting until there is definite info to tell.
Just because other people made educated guesses and gave info out a little bit too early, doesnt mean that Spitfire have to.
Im booked on the Spitfire tour, and never once did i think they were going bust. I always assumed that the rumours about Oban were untrue, or Spitfire were trying to sort things out before making a firm announcement.
The Highland Chieftan next Friday isnt going to Inverness.
Now if EC dont make an announcement between now and next Friday, does that mean EC are going bust?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In response to this, which itself is full of rumour after rumour, and false info after false info.
Queen St was looked at, but it wasnt possible. They never advertised Queen St so its not something they failed to deliver. Reason Queen St isnt possible is not down to the load. It is a load 7, and not a load 11. There is no 47 involved, and so that isnt the reason for Oban being lost.
So these hints and rumours that everything is lost because its now a load 11, and because of such, its now unfairly expensive, is all untrue.
From what I can see the only thing they are unable to deliver on, is Oban. That is hardly everything.
Price wise. Dont like it, dont go on the tour. I dont stay at the Ritz because its too expensive. I dont come on here complaining about it though.
Whistler40145
Established Member
If a company e.g. Spitfire have no tours listed it could be down to several factors:-
1. Problems with getting suitable paths with Network Rail.
2. The company providing stock, locos etc could be in trouble or charging Spitfire too much to make it a viable option & other companies may not have sufficient resources to provide an alternative option.
3. If Spitfire were going out of business, I am sure by now that the Media & general public would have been notified.
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1. Problems with getting suitable paths with Network Rail.
2. The company providing stock, locos etc could be in trouble or charging Spitfire too much to make it a viable option & other companies may not have sufficient resources to provide an alternative option.
3. If Spitfire were going out of business, I am sure by now that the Media & general public would have been notified.
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whittleblue
New Member
Hello everyone.
Spitfire haven't cashed my cheque for this tour yet.
Is that a good or bad sign?
Sorry for being thick but I've only ever done two other tours and I paid for them on the card.
Spitfire haven't cashed my cheque for this tour yet.
Is that a good or bad sign?
Sorry for being thick but I've only ever done two other tours and I paid for them on the card.
Phil6219
Member
They usually cash the cheque two weeks before the tour date, or at least work it so that it clears on that date, the tickets are then shipped the same day, although on my last trip (Ft William which was curtailed to Oban instead) due to issues and last minute adjustments or whatever the tickets went out a week before the tour date.
I wouldn't worry since the trip isn't going for a bit over a fortnight.
Phil
I wouldn't worry since the trip isn't going for a bit over a fortnight.
Phil
whittleblue
New Member
They usually cash the cheque two weeks before the tour date, or at least work it so that it clears on that date, the tickets are then shipped the same day, although on my last trip (Ft William which was curtailed to Oban instead) due to issues and last minute adjustments or whatever the tickets went out a week before the tour date.
I wouldn't worry since the trip isn't going for a bit over a fortnight.
Phil
That's good.
Thanks very much for the info.
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