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Split Flap Departure Boards

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ryan125hst

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I found the following photo of a split flap departure board at Edinburgh Waverley, dating to 1989: https://www.flickr.com/photos/66289212@N07/32762905665

It has made me curious as to how it dealt with all the calling patterns for all the different services. Clearly the time and platform number would be easy, and likewise the Sprinter, Intercity 125, Outer Circle etc. displays would be easy to arrange, as would the row at the bottom detailing the available catering. But calling patterns can be vary varied.

Take the Intercity 125 service to London Kings Cross as an example. It is shown as calling at Berwick, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, Doncaster, Newark and Peterborough. The top flap would need to additionally display Alnmouth and Morpeth should the train call there as well, with or without Berwick as appropriate. Dunbar then adds an extra combination to the mix. You would need another flap on the York line to add a Northallerton call, but Retford could easily be added on the blank line, and both Grantham and Stevange could be added with an additional flap on the Newark and Peterborough lines respectively.

However, I understand that only 40 flaps could be used for each of these. When you add all the combinations of trains on all routes served from Waverley, how did they have enough capacity to display all destinations.

As an aside, I see that the board at London Kings Cross was split between Intercity and Network South East services which would have made things a bit easier: https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/28/651/

One final question - how did they handle engineering works requring trains to be terminated short of their usual destination? It is common these days for LNER to terminate at York, Doncaster or Peterborough from Edinburgh when engineering works are on in the southern part of the East Coast Main Line. How was this dealt with back in the days of split flat departure boards?
 
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whoosh

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@ryan125hst I don't know the answer to your question, but I think you might find this thread interesting - in particular the linked post, of a Forum Poster having operated the Solari board at Euston:

 

150219

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I found the following photo of a split flap departure board at Edinburgh Waverley, dating to 1989: https://www.flickr.com/photos/66289212@N07/32762905665

It has made me curious as to how it dealt with all the calling patterns for all the different services. Clearly the time and platform number would be easy, and likewise the Sprinter, Intercity 125, Outer Circle etc. displays would be easy to arrange, as would the row at the bottom detailing the available catering. But calling patterns can be vary varied.

Take the Intercity 125 service to London Kings Cross as an example. It is shown as calling at Berwick, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, Doncaster, Newark and Peterborough. The top flap would need to additionally display Alnmouth and Morpeth should the train call there as well, with or without Berwick as appropriate. Dunbar then adds an extra combination to the mix. You would need another flap on the York line to add a Northallerton call, but Retford could easily be added on the blank line, and both Grantham and Stevange could be added with an additional flap on the Newark and Peterborough lines respectively.

However, I understand that only 40 flaps could be used for each of these. When you add all the combinations of trains on all routes served from Waverley, how did they have enough capacity to display all destinations.

As an aside, I see that the board at London Kings Cross was split between Intercity and Network South East services which would have made things a bit easier: https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/28/651/

One final question - how did they handle engineering works requring trains to be terminated short of their usual destination? It is common these days for LNER to terminate at York, Doncaster or Peterborough from Edinburgh when engineering works are on in the southern part of the East Coast Main Line. How was this dealt with back in the days of split flat departure boards?

There used to a webpage that showed all of the possible Solari combinations installed at London Victoria station. A quick Google search shows the evidence of it, but I couldn't find the actual pages. As I understand it there were certain columns that showed some of the calling points and some that didn't, allowing for different services to be shown if not necessarily in chronological order. If memory serves me rightly, there were some panels that showed 'listen for announcements' or trains such as those from Kings Cross to Aberdeen didn't show the intermediate stations in Scotland.

What were the letters on the flaps? I always assumed Letraset.

They were probably printed rather than letraset, using Rail Alphabet or Helvetica.
 

Andy R. A.

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What were the letters on the flaps? I always assumed Letraset.
The Solari Flaps were printed on the thin metal as things like Letraset would soon wear off with the constant turning over of the flaps. From my time at Euston when I operated the Solari Indicators I was able to keep a number of our old Repeater Flaps when they were changed, still displayed on my home office wall.
Signs 19.JPGSigns 20.JPG

However, I understand that only 40 flaps could be used for each of these. When you add all the combinations of trains on all routes served from Waverley, how did they have enough capacity to display all destinations.
It was possible on the Solari Indicators at Euston to use two boards for one train, especially those dividing on route. It was next to impossible to have every single station that could be served, but it was mostly the Additional trains or Excursions that were difficult to display (Besses o' th' Barn being a popular Excursion of the time which couldn't be displayed). The Main Flap for the Destination or Originating point was set as 'SPECIAL TRAIN' White on red, with the remarks column set at 'Please listen for announcements'. This was the case during the East Coast Penmaenshiel diversions of 1979 in and out of Euston, as Edinburgh and Aberdeen were not shown on any of the flaps. All the main stations served on the scheduled services were included, and were altered every May for any new or withdrawn calling points. One year we lost Aintree and Windermere, and got Barmouth included for one of the Summer Sunday services.
 

nw1

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As an aside, I see that the board at London Kings Cross was split between Intercity and Network South East services which would have made things a bit easier: https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/28/651/
OT but that photo is enough to deduce the off peak non-suburban pattern out of Kings Cross at that time. Interesting to note the even interval approx. 7.5 min departure pattern (the xx10 to Leeds being the exception).

Bringing back plenty of 80s and 90s memories, I clearly remember this style of departure board.
 

Nammer

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I used to operate the departure boards at Portsmouth Harbour. You are correct in saying there were 40 flaps (00-39) in each 'destination' and 'calling at' module, one of which (00) was always blank. You had to programme in the flap number to get the calling points. It was quite a time consuming process, especially at timetable changeover! You had to programme in as best you could with all the available destinations and calling at points. Sometimes a new destination would need to be added and it would not be available, so the flaps would have to be ordered and they could take a month or so to be added. For this situation I used the 'Please listen to announcements' flap and put as many calling points in as I could. With those services it was imperative to make additional manual announcements. It wasn't an ideal situation but when the flap board indicators were replaced with 'Postfield' screens you could type in and show all information.
 

Ken H

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And the clicketty clicking they made as they changed.

But where had them? The main london termini yes. But Birminham New St, Manchester Piccadilly are the only ones I remember. Dont think Leeds had one. The low ceiling in the concourse would have made it difficult.
 

nw1

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And the clicketty clicking they made as they changed.

But where had them? The main london termini yes. But Birminham New St, Manchester Piccadilly are the only ones I remember. Dont think Leeds had one. The low ceiling in the concourse would have made it difficult.

Brighton in 1985, IIRC.
Portsmouth Harbour as discussed above, definitely well into the 90s.
 

Cheshire Scot

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And the clicketty clicking they made as they changed.

But where had them? The main london termini yes. But Birminham New St, Manchester Piccadilly are the only ones I remember. Dont think Leeds had one. The low ceiling in the concourse would have made it difficult.
Glasgow Queen St - just 4 panels plus arrivals.
 

The exile

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And the clicketty clicking they made as they changed.

But where had them? The main london termini yes. But Birminham New St, Manchester Piccadilly are the only ones I remember. Dont think Leeds had one. The low ceiling in the concourse would have made it difficult.
Bristol TM (I think) The great advantage of them was that you couldn’t miss it when something changed!
Or was the Bristol one just final destinations ( like several others IIRC)
None of them were as fun (or as frustrating) as the snail’s pace East German ones…
 

The exile

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One or two just about made it into this century, I think. (Relates to E German indicators!!)
 

Taunton

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The greatest feature of the Solari boards, which seemed only to be done on the Southern Region, was the pre-set reasons for delays etc in the bottom two lines of a column. The first displayed "Delayed due to"/"Cancelled due to", and the second worked through Engineering Works, Lineside Fire, Inclement Weather, Vandalism, etc. When periodically a full reset of all flaps in a column was done the whole lot would cycle through, generally to laughter from the concourse, where they were known as "the excuses".

Apparently the scriptwriter of the Reginald Perrin TV series, which parodied all these every week, got their idea from seeing this go on.
 

Magdalia

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Apparently the scriptwriter of the Reginald Perrin TV series, which parodied all these every week, got their idea from seeing this go on.
The Reginald Perrin TV series was an adaptation of novels written by David Nobbs, the first of which was published in 1975.

"Staff difficulties at Hampton Wick" is on page 2 of the first book.

I don't know if any Solari Boards date back to before 1975, but David Nobbs being inspired by them seems unlikely to me.
 

Ken H

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Alan Williams wrote in Modern Railways - 'Flap indicators - when there is a flap on they don't flap anymore.' !!!
 

station_road

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I used to operate the departure boards at Portsmouth Harbour. You are correct in saying there were 40 flaps (00-39) in each 'destination' and 'calling at' module, one of which (00) was always blank. You had to programme in the flap number to get the calling points. It was quite a time consuming process, especially at timetable changeover! You had to programme in as best you could with all the available destinations and calling at points. Sometimes a new destination would need to be added and it would not be available, so the flaps would have to be ordered and they could take a month or so to be added. For this situation I used the 'Please listen to announcements' flap and put as many calling points in as I could. With those services it was imperative to make additional manual announcements. It wasn't an ideal situation but when the flap board indicators were replaced with 'Postfield' screens you could type in and show all information.
It was always amusing when a new flap was ordered but the font size was wrong, so that when fitted the top half of the word was a different size to the bottom half!
 

Taunton

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The Reginald Perrin TV series was an adaptation of novels written by David Nobbs, the first of which was published in 1975.

"Staff difficulties at Hampton Wick" is on page 2 of the first book.

I don't know if any Solari Boards date back to before 1975, but David Nobbs being inspired by them seems unlikely to me.
The boards at Waterloo were installed in the early 1970s. The grand old Southern Railway wooden predecessor was advertised for sale in The Railway Magazine at the time by the installation contractor.

In 1977 I went to Los Angeles, USA, and was taken to a railway-themed restaurant near Universal Studios called "Victoria Station". Apart from them having several BR Mk 1 carriages in full blue/grey livery as dining accommodation, on entering, there it was ... the old Waterloo wooden departure describer, set up in price of place inside the main door. Set of course to a whole lot of nonsense combinations, but it still had all its original inserts.
 

Bald Rick

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The boards at Waterloo were installed in the early 1970s. The grand old Southern Railway wooden predecessor was advertised for sale in The Railway Magazine at the time by the installation contractor.

In 1977 I went to Los Angeles, USA, and was taken to a railway-themed restaurant near Universal Studios called "Victoria Station". Apart from them having several BR Mk 1 carriages in full blue/grey livery as dining accommodation, on entering, there it was ... the old Waterloo wooden departure describer, set up in price of place inside the main door. Set of course to a whole lot of nonsense combinations, but it still had all its original inserts.

and of course there is a flap indicator at Universal Studios Florida now, at the entrance to the fake Kings Cross.

some company called First Capital Connect run services there…
 

DelW

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and of course there is a flap indicator at Universal Studios Florida now, at the entrance to the fake Kings Cross.

some company called First Capital Connect run services there…
I recall reading a review by a cynical (presumably British) visitor who commented that it was hopelessly unrealistic .... because all the trains were shown as departing on time :lol:.

On the other side of the USA, there were still Solari-style departure boards in the San Francisco ferry terminal in 2015.
 

Speed43125

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In 1977 I went to Los Angeles, USA, and was taken to a railway-themed restaurant near Universal Studios called "Victoria Station". Apart from them having several BR Mk 1 carriages in full blue/grey livery as dining accommodation, on entering, there it was ... the old Waterloo wooden departure describer, set up in price of place inside the main door. Set of course to a whole lot of nonsense combinations, but it still had all its original inserts.
The Same Full Brake Mk.1s used on Flying Scotsmen's USA ...emm.. Tour.. where Mr. Pegler almost lost the loco for good.

The windows were later cut into the carriages for use in the restaurant.
 

YorksLad12

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Bristol TM (I think) The great advantage of them was that you couldn’t miss it when something changed!
Or was the Bristol one just final destinations ( like several others IIRC)
None of them were as fun (or as frustrating) as the snail’s pace East German ones…
I said something similar on a different thread. Waiting at Kings Cross, everyone gathers around the boards and looks up, oblivious to the world around them, their kids running wild and their pockets being pinched. If we have to have constant messages over the PA system why not the sound of flapping whenever a monitor changes, so that we all know to look up... instead of drying our eyeballs out from staring at the displays?

Harrumph ;)
 

Friary Yard

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I worked at Paddington from 1971 to 1976 and my duties , as Station Announcer, included operating the Solari Board. It was operated using computer punch cards, the ones about the size of a DL envelope. Cards were pre-punched for daily trains but any emergency change or special working required a new card to be made. There was a master book giving the code for each destination on each column of the board as they were not all the same and so a new card had to be punched there and then.
 

Bald Rick

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I recall reading a review by a cynical (presumably British) visitor who commented that it was hopelessly unrealistic .... because all the trains were shown as departing on time :lol:.
.

funnily enough I have a friend there now who has made exactly that comment!
 

61653 HTAFC

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The Reginald Perrin TV series was an adaptation of novels written by David Nobbs, the first of which was published in 1975.

"Staff difficulties at Hampton Wick" is on page 2 of the first book.

I don't know if any Solari Boards date back to before 1975, but David Nobbs being inspired by them seems unlikely to me.
I'd have thought that some of the "excuses" are almost as old as railways themselves. Particularly "person hit by train" courtesy of William Huskisson.
 
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