Split Ticket and delay Repay query

[sdrennan]

I bought split ticket Manchester to Lancaster and a separate Lancaster to Glasgow.
Manchester 17:42 arrive Lancaster 19:02 (Actual 19:10)
Lancaster Dep 19:30 (Actual 20:15) Expected to arrive Glasgow about 45 mins late. (Still on train)

Am I entitled to the cost of the complete Journey or just the Lancaster to Glasgow element. I asked the guard and he said it was only the part on the Lancaster to Glasgow as this was a split ticket

Appreciate your feedback

 

[BigCj34]

If you write to Virgin outlining the situation you should be able to claim the combined cost. I have done this myself, state that the combined tickets constituted one journey.

 

[Hadders]

You made a journey from Manchester to Glasgow.

The NRCoT says you may use more than one ticket to make a journey.

Delay Repay is paid if your journey is delayed.

Most train companies understand this but there are a few rogue ones out there who try and deny this.

 

[Dhassell]

When I used split tickets and claimed with XC, I made sure to scan all the split tickets and then as the "price of ticket" added up the total of all the split tickets, and I was repaid correctly.

 

[sdrennan]

Thanks all. I have scanned all in the one picture so lets see what they send me

 

[sdrennan]

well got the repay but Virgin only covered it for their part of the journey.
time to complain!

 

[gray1404]

Defiantly time to complain. Virgin Trains are making a habit of this and it is both wrong and against the rules. As stated above, the NRCoT state you can use more then one ticket to complete your journey. You only made one journey and, as such Virgin should be paying out on the entire cost.

Virgin really are making a habit out of this. I wonder if their staff have been given an instruction not to pay out on split tickets as most people will not bother taking it further. It is wrong and needs to stop.

 

[yorkie]

well got the repay but Virgin only covered it for their part of the journey.
time to complain!

Yes, make sure you are clear in your reply you made one journey and that Delay Repay applies to the journey. Virgin Trains are incorrect and you should pursue this.

Also, please escalate the matter to Transport Focus.

Where did you buy the tickets? I understand some of the split ticket providers will be happy to assist you if you bought the tickets from them.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[gray1404]

This is interesting Yorkie. How to the providers assist you if you have bought the tickets from them? Which ones do this? Thanks!

 

[sdrennan]

i have now raised with Transport Focus
their latest response on a Chat was
========================================
Compensation is calculated differently when you have split tickets.

So, although the National Conditions of Travel says that split tickets can make up a journey, compensation is only due on the affected ticket and any knock on effect that this may have. As your first journey was not delayed, no compensation would be given on this particular part of the journey. I couldn't comment on other train operators on what they do unfortunately.

Having taken advice from senior staff, this would be our final response in this matter. I'm sorry for any disappointment this causes you.

 

[horizonflame]

Transport Focus are so frustrating. They acknowledge your split tickets amount to a journey but then contradict themselves by referring to your "first journey" as your first ticket.

Why can't they comment on other train operators on what they do? - They should be championing a consistent approached by all TOCs in following the NRCOT.

If I were you I would send a formal letter in the post - it can have more impact than chat functions or e-mails which are more easily dismissed.

 

[yorkie]

Transport Focus are so frustrating. They acknowledge your split tickets amount to a journey but then contradict themselves by referring to your "first journey" as your first ticket.

Why can't they comment on other train operators on what they do? - They should be championing a consistent approached by all TOCs in following the NRCOT.

If I were you I would send a formal letter in the post - it can have more impact than chat functions or e-mails which are more easily dismissed.

Transport Focus are wrong. They lack even basic knowledge.

The nonsense about "first journey" is standard wording they dish out; they should be embarrassed.

 

[AlterEgo]

Notwithstanding any internal guidance (the last of which I heard was very old), the concept of a “journey” is undefined in the NRCoC.

There are many possible definitions based on the context and circumstances of each case.

 

[Hadders]

Transport Focus are so frustrating. They acknowledge your split tickets amount to a journey but then contradict themselves by referring to your "first journey" as your first ticket.

Why can't they comment on other train operators on what they do? - They should be championing a consistent approached by all TOCs in following the NRCOT.

If I were you I would send a formal letter in the post - it can have more impact than chat functions or e-mails which are more easily dismissed.

Been there, done that. Even Anthony Smith spouts exactly the same nonsense.

 

[yorkie]

Condition 14 make it clear that passengers may use two or more tickets for one journey.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Woe betide any TOC that tries to get out of paying me Delay Repay where it's rightfully due... Maybe I should get into the habit of trying unusual split ticket combinations to test them...

 

[Hadders]

Woe betide any TOC that tries to get out of paying me Delay Repay where it's rightfully due... Maybe I should get into the habit of trying unusual split ticket combinations to test them...

I'm interested in how you will achieve that. I've had replies from the Chief Executive of a TOC, the Chief Executive of Transport Focus and my MP (following appropriate escalations) about a rejected claim where a combination of tickets was used and it's as though they all stick their fingers in their ears singing 'la, la, la' and spout the same nonsense.

 

[yorkie]

Yes I can confirm many people have experienced the same as Hadders.

There is no organisation that both has the best interests of passengers at heart and has the knowledge and power to properly represent customers interests.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I'm interested in how you will achieve that. I've had replies from the Chief Executive of a TOC, the Chief Executive of Transport Focus and my MP (following appropriate escalations) about a rejected claim where a combination of tickets was used and it's as though they all stick their fingers in their ears singing 'la, la, la' and spout the same nonsense.

Court!

 

[gray1404]

Looks like there is going to have to be a test case on this in court.

 

[sleepy_hollow]

For a delay of 1 hour or more I have entered the Virgin part of the journey in the on line boxes, ticked the connection box and supplied copies of all the tickets, which seems to result in a refund of half the total fares (for a journey split into three tickets) for a one hour delay, or the whole total fares for three hours. The last occasion was at the end of October 2017. Took about five weeks to pay, which was longer than previously. The rules may be different for shorter delays, although for the only shorter delay that has lead to a claim we still just caught our bus connection from Carlisle, so the refund was more a nice gesture than essential.

 

[sdrennan]

It seems transport Focus are agreeing with Virgin following their investigation

Thank you for your email regarding your claim for compensation with Virgin Trains. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you.
I’m sorry to hear that you are dissatisfied with the level of compensation received for your delay from Manchester to Glasgow in November. I can certainly appreciate your frustration having received les compensation than expected.

Having consulted the various contract documents which lay out your rights as a passenger (National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Virgin’s own Passenger Charter and the National Fares Manual), and having consulted our own Policy Team, I can confirm that Virgin trains have advised you correctly in terms of your statutory entitlements.

Whilst it is true that one or more ticket can be used to complete a journey, any compensation due refers to the journey being made on the relevant single ticket. As such, with your specific ticket combination, compensation would only be due on the Lancaster to Glasgow ticket. The Manchester to Lancaster ticket would, in this scenario, be classed as a completely separate journey as covered by a completely separate ticket and thus would not be considered for compensation.

Having discussed this with our Policy Team, and whilst we appreciate that your full journey was Manchester to Glasgow, the combination of tickets will mean that legally you are only entitled to compensation based on the delay to the destination stated on the ticket held for that specific leg of the journey i.e. Lancaster to Glasgow.

We are aware that ticketing system is complicated and passengers tell us that they often find better deals by shopping around on different websites or by ‘splitting tickets’ - buying several tickets to various stations along the one journey to get a cheaper price. The downside of purchasing split tickets is that passengers may not be entitled to as much compensation as would be due with a through-ticket.

Regrettably, as they are legally not liable to offer compensation for the full value of your ticket combination, I am not in a position to instruct them to do so.

I’m sorry I’ve not been able to help on this occasion.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. A brief survey about our service will be sent to you shortly. I would be grateful if you could complete this as it provides us with valuable feedback as to my handling of your complaint. If you are comfortable to do so, please include my name, as any comments will then be fed back to me directly.

 

[Hadders]

Transport Focus are useless. This is the standard wibble they send to anyone who complains about delay repay and split ticketing.

Their response acknowledges you made a journey from Manchester to Glasgow, but then states it is two separate journeys.....

Transport Focus really should be insisting that the positio regarding split tickets and compensation for delays is clearly set out in Passenger Charters. SWR and GWR do this.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It seems transport Focus are agreeing with Virgin following their investigation

What a useful, coherent, non-contradictory response. (/s!)

The promised new binding Rail Ombudsman can't come soon enough - let's hope that when it does finally arrive, they don't make the same elementary mistakes as Transport Focus have in this ill-informed, misleading copypasta.

It's unfortunate that the delay was less than 1 hour, as if it had been 1 hour or more you would have a 100% watertight legal case purely under the NRCoT. As it is, you have a weaker case relying on untested consumer law and the question of whether or not the availability of VTWC's 30 minute Delay Repay influenced your original buying decision or your decision(s) after buying.

I find it scandalous that it is in the franchise agreements for TOCs to give Delay Repay (and hence in the franchise premium/P&L calculations) yet they can, at a whim, decide not to pay out and leave the passenger with few options. A breach of franchise obligations like this should be the first step towards banning VRG, Stagecoach and any other operator who dares to try this on, from ever bidding for future franchises.

 

[bb21]

Transport Focus really should be insisting that the positio regarding split tickets and compensation for delays is clearly set out in Passenger Charters. SWR and GWR do this.

Agreed. That imo is a prime example of the most important issues a thoughtful passenger rights advocacy group with a long-term strategic vision should be pressing for.

The current position of this issue is far from clear and satisfactory.

 

[BigCj34]

The cynic in me wonders if TOCs could intentionally create more cheaper split combinations if it reduces the compensation payout to the people who do look for split tickets.

 

[Clip]

The cynic in me wonders if TOCs could intentionally create more cheaper split combinations if it reduces the compensation payout to the people who do look for split tickets.

That seems daft when services run the majority of times on time so they would be losing out on revenue. This case in point here is that he was travelling on 2 different TOCs

 

[MotCO]

There is no organisation that both has the best interests of passengers at heart and has the knowledge and power to properly represent customers interests.

Yes there is -this forum

 

[AlterEgo]

The cynic in me wonders if TOCs could intentionally create more cheaper split combinations if it reduces the compensation payout to the people who do look for split tickets.

So the business strategy there would be to take less money in the first place, right?

May want to rethink that one...!

 

[Joe Paxton]

Court!

There is the Money Claim Online (MCOL) process for court claims, though it carries a fee (£25 for a claim of up to £300).