split ticketing on the last train of the day

Status
Not open for further replies.

mangyiscute

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2021
Messages
39
Location
Reading
So once lockdown lifts I am planning a trip from Reading to Carlisle travelling via Birmingham, and this route is cheaper if you split at a few stations, the key one being Banbury. This is a Saturday so it will all be off peak.

I plan to split the journey at Banbury, Wigan and Preston (I know it can be cheaper involving Coventry and Wolverhampton or others but only by a couple of pounds and having these splits I imagine makes it more likely I could travel at least to London even if I have to then pay a single to Reading from there).

When returning, I would like to take the 18:09 train to Wolverhampton arriving at 20:34 and then the 20:42 train to Reading, which is the last train of the day through to Reading via Banbury. This route is allowed in the National Rail route planning as the interchange time at Wolverhampton is 7 mins. However, since this change only has 8 mins, would I be able to use my split ticket to travel via London to Reading if the Avanti train to Wolverhampton was delayed?

Or I assume I would be able to at least go to London with the Wigan to Banbury ticket since if I was just doing that journey and I missed the Wolverhampton train I would be able to travel into Euston and out of Marylebone.

Also, say if the Avanti train is like 20+ mins late to Crewe so that it is almost certain I would miss the train at Wolverhampton, would I be able to take a train from Crewe straight to London rather than having to take the longer route through Birmingham?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mcr Warrior

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
4,675
I'll await the considered opinion of the forum experts on this, but can't imagine that using a combination of Wigan to Banbury and then Banbury to Reading tickets would ever normally be valid via Euston/Paddington, if that's what you are asking.
 

mangyiscute

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2021
Messages
39
Location
Reading
I'll await the considered opinion of the forum experts on this, but can't imagine that using a combination of Wigan to Banbury and then Banbury to Reading tickets would ever normally be valid via Euston/Paddington, if that's what you are asking.
Sorry if my original message was unclear - I am planning to return on the cross country route via Birmingham and Banbury, but since it is the last train of the day and there is a fairly tight connection I am asking what would happen if the train was late and I missed that connection.
 

Mcr Warrior

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
4,675
Presumably costs more than what you're currently contemplating, but if you had Reading -> Wigan Off Peak Return tickets, these could be one-way change of route excessed from 'Route Banbury' to 'Route London' if you missed your Wolverhampton connection.
 

mangyiscute

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2021
Messages
39
Location
Reading
Presumably costs more than what you're currently contemplating, but if you had Reading -> Wigan Off Peak Return tickets, these could be one-way change of route excessed from 'Route Banbury' to 'Route London' if you missed your Wolverhampton connection.
Yeah unfortunately that split at Banbury saves about £30 so I would certainly like to use it.
 

Mcr Warrior

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
4,675
Understandable. Think I'll defer to the collective wisdom of the forum experts on this to see if there is any more elegant work around solution, you certainly don't want to end up having to fork out for a £54.20 (?) Wolverhampton to Reading 'Route London' off peak single having just missed your Banbury connection.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
70,555
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Sorry if my original message was unclear - I am planning to return on the cross country route via Birmingham and Banbury, but since it is the last train of the day and there is a fairly tight connection I am asking what would happen if the train was late and I missed that connection.

The railway should do something for you in this case (as it appears you meet minimum connection times), what it is would be their decision. However, you might find yourself having to pay for it yourself and claim it back, because the railway doesn't always behave as it is meant to.
 

Mcr Warrior

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
4,675
The railway should do something for you in this case (as it appears you meet minimum connection times), what it is would be their decision. However, you might find yourself having to pay for it yourself and claim it back, because the railway doesn't always behave as it is meant to.
Good points. Still think the OP is potentially putting themselves in a position of being a hostage to fortune in committing to a very tight (but nevertheless officially valid) connection at Wolverhampton for the last service of the day (to Reading) via Banbury.
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
6,680
I think if there are trains that will still get you to Banbury, and potentially then on to Reading you will be expected to continue your journey that way.
 

Watershed

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
3,135
Location
UK
You'd be entitled to alternative transport (or else overnight accommodation) if you've missed the last train of the day due to a late connecting service. Any train company in a position to assist would be obligated to help.

In practice that may mean you're told to go as far south as you can on the remaining services of the day, and then you're put in a taxi to your destination. But either way it would be highly advisable to speak to staff (either on the train, at the station, through a Help Point, or through customer services/Twitter) to ensure that you don't incur any unnecessary expenses that they might refuse to reimburse.
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
1,355
You'd be entitled to alternative transport (or else overnight accommodation) if you've missed the last train of the day due to a late connecting service. Any train company in a position to assist would be obligated to help.

In practice that may mean you're told to go as far south as you can on the remaining services of the day, and then you're put in a taxi to your destination. But either way it would be highly advisable to speak to staff (either on the train, at the station, through a Help Point, or through customer services/Twitter) to ensure that you don't incur any unnecessary expenses that they might refuse to reimburse.
Yep, and be civil and polite to the on train team, in fact, go searching for them at the earliest opportunity if it’s obvious that you will miss your connecting train.

The vast majority of on train staff and station staff are fantastic and will do their utmost to help if you ask nicely!
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,755
Location
Yorkshire
My advice is to obtain a through itinerary (at the time of purchase); the easiest way to do this is to buy all tickets through an accredited split ticket website as one journey.

This will be evidence of your contract.

If delays occur, staff will generate advise you to stick to the booked route if possible.

If the booked route is not possible it is up to any relevant train company in a position to assist, to either arrange an alternative route or alternative transport.

If a dispute arises you would show your itinerary as evidence of the contract.

If you remained in dispute with any train company I am sure any split ticket retailer you bought with would assist you.

I am aware of examples where Trainsplit have assisted customers, for example.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
17,515
Location
Manchester
There's a 2218 service from Birmingham Moor Street to Banbury, so in the event that you miss your planned service from Wolverhampton at 2042 there would still be a good chance you could make this train. An onward service is unlikely to be available from Banbury so I would get in touch with Avanti, or anyone else whom you can speak to in person, to discuss it if there's a delay. It's probably more likely that you'd be provided with a taxi from Banbury to Reading, than proactively given special permission to travel to London and given an Underground ticket, as crazy as that seems.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,948
Location
Wittersham Kent
There's a 2218 service from Birmingham Moor Street to Banbury, so in the event that you miss your planned service from Wolverhampton at 2042 there would still be a good chance you could make this train. An onward service is unlikely to be available from Banbury so I would get in touch with Avanti, or anyone else whom you can speak to in person, to discuss it if there's a delay. It's probably more likely that you'd be provided with a taxi from Banbury to Reading, than proactively given special permission to travel to London and given an Underground ticket, as crazy as that seems.
Is it actually that crazy? Banbury to Reading by road is only 50 miles mostly on the M40, about an hour at that time of night.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
17,515
Location
Manchester
Is it actually that crazy? Banbury to Reading by road is only 50 miles mostly on the M40, about an hour at that time of night.
The cost to the industry of routing the passenger, who has paid for a ticket already, via London would likely be £0. Or the cost of the LU single if you insist on viewing them as not part of the industry because of their very different financial settlement. The cost to the industry of said taxi would be what, £100 or thereabouts? And when I say "cost to the industry" I mean, of course, cost to farepayers and public funds.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,755
Location
Yorkshire
Yes the rail industry is structured in such a way it would not surprise me if a taxi was provided instead of re routing the passenger via London.

Either way the passenger can relax in the knowledge they are covered for the entire ticketed journey.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
5,513
Yes the rail industry is structured in such a way it would not surprise me if a taxi was provided instead of re routing the passenger via London.

Either way the passenger can relax in the knowledge they are covered for the entire ticketed journey.

Much depends on the TOC.

Our lot are usually quite happy to call other TOC controls for ticket acceptance even for individuals if it is possible. I can ring up with a list of required trains and they'll call back in a few minutes having sorted it.

Other TOCs (I'm looking at you Northern) have a reputation for doing as little as possible and being hard to reach or get a decision from. The smaller the TOC the better possibly - I am on first name terms with most of our control and have met many of them out and about around the network.

London Underground tend to be trickier - a required transfer will usually result in them being told to pay for it (though to be fair it doesn't cost the earth) and claim it back, unless it is large scale ticket acceptable due to CSL2 in which case arrangements are made with the station staff to pass people through their gates.
 

mangyiscute

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2021
Messages
39
Location
Reading
ok so overall it seems like i should be fine, thanks for all of the advice :) and if i have to go through London and i have to pay the underground it is only £!.50 now so that's fine
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,755
Location
Yorkshire
ok so overall it seems like i should be fine, thanks for all of the advice :) and if i have to go through London and i have to pay the underground it is only £!.50 now so that's fine
Yes absolutely

Just be sure to obtain a through itinerary

I personally would do this by booking through an accredited split ticketing site for added peace of mind, but you could buy each ticket as if if were a separate journey and print the overall itinerary from NRE, to demonstrate it is all one journey, if you prefer.
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
1,355
ok so overall it seems like i should be fine, thanks for all of the advice :) and if i have to go through London and i have to pay the underground it is only £!.50 now so that's fine
Don’t forget to let us know how you got on.

In a perverse sort of way, we probably all want your train to be late so that you miss your planned connection to see what happens...!

only joking, of course!
 

T-Karmel

Member
Joined
20 Mar 2010
Messages
271
Location
London
The cost to the industry of routing the passenger, who has paid for a ticket already, via London would likely be £0. Or the cost of the LU single if you insist on viewing them as not part of the industry because of their very different financial settlement. The cost to the industry of said taxi would be what, £100 or thereabouts? And when I say "cost to the industry" I mean, of course, cost to farepayers and public funds.
Just want to give an example of a taxi contracted by some TOC in London for its employees where I had a chance to see the bills charged to that TOC and it was £96,50 for 8 miles drive and £221,50 for 21 miles drive.

And to be fair it was on 25th of December, HOWEVER on that very same day taxis booked outside of that contract where £40 for the 14 miles drive and £18 Uber for the same 8 miles drive as above.
 

packermac

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2019
Messages
543
Location
Swanage
Just want to give an example of a taxi contracted by some TOC in London for its employees where I had a chance to see the bills charged to that TOC and it was £96,50 for 8 miles drive and £221,50 for 21 miles drive.

And to be fair it was on 25th of December, HOWEVER on that very same day taxis booked outside of that contract where £40 for the 14 miles drive and £18 Uber for the same 8 miles drive as above.
Without knowing the conditions of the contract (maybe the company has to respond within a short set time or have drivers on standby or be prepared to go anywhere) it is impossible to say if that is good value or not.
Remember the value of any contract is the "total cost of ownership" which as you have proved in random one off situations can often be easily beaten.
I seem to remember when Tornado was terminated at Crewe due to an engineering block (I think an SD trip) running late due to loco issues at Rhyl it took hours to find taxis, many of which came from Stoke on Trent or further, and most drivers had never even been to London. TOC's I suspect have or at least should have, something in place so that sort of issue does not occur.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top