split ticketing possibly missing last connecting train

[njr001]

I have purchased a senior railcard discounted Super Off-peak return between Rickmansworth & Plymouth for next weekend @ £66.65 only £4 more than the PAD - PLY fare. I've also purchased for my partner who only needs a ticket for the return leg, a super off peak single from Plymouth to Paddington for £35.65, (a super off-peak single Plymouth to Rickmansworth costs £66).

Normally she would use Oyster PAYG from Paddington to Ricky either via Marylebone or Baker Street, I am concerned that whilst I have a through ticket and would be covered in the case of a long delay resulting missing the last train from Marylebone she will not be.

I can only find a London Marylebone to Rickmansworth anytime day single, would purchasing this ensure that we would both be conveyed by taxi or whatever to Ricky in the event of missing the last train from Marylebone. If so can I purchase this on the Plymouth to Paddington train once it's obvious we are being significantly delayed as the PAYG oyster fare is only £2.65 to cover the journey via the underground / Chiltern from Paddington to Ricky?

 

[yorkie]

If you already hold valid ticket(s) for your journey and the itinerary is (or was at the time of purchase) a valid itinerary in terms of meeting the minimum interchange times, then you are covered.

However with Oyster/Contactless it's a grey area.

I can only find a London Marylebone to Rickmansworth anytime day single, would purchasing this ensure that we would both be conveyed by taxi or whatever to Ricky in the event of missing the last train from Marylebone.

Pre-purchasing tickets that covers your entire journey guarantees it, providing a valid itinerary was available at the time of purchase.

If so can I purchase this on the Plymouth to Paddington train once it's obvious we are being significantly delayed

The train company are within their rights to decline sale of such tickets if you only attempt to purchase them once disruption is known about and had declined earlier opportunities to purchase them.

as the PAYG oyster fare is only £2.65 to cover the journey via the underground / Chiltern from Paddington to Ricky?

I think that your intention to make such a journey should suffice, but it is a grey area and I am not aware of any official guidance (however hopefully someone will come along with some shortly...!).

As you will already hold a ticket to Rickmansworth, and as you are travelling together, that should clear up any doubt of your intentions in my opinion.It would seem very odd - and unjustifiable in my opinion - to book a taxi for you and then refuse someone accompanying you to travel with you, on the basis they were using PAYG for the last part of their journey.

I therefore see no benefit to asking for a paper ticket once a delay is known, as once the delay is known about they are either going to honour the travel or refuse it!

I do see a benefit in pre-purchasing the paper ticket, to avoid any potential arguments, but not in this case, given one of you is already in possession of a paper ticket.

However what paper ticket you should obtain, to be guaranteed onward travel, is possibly debatable in this case. However before we look into that any further, can you confirm your exact planned itinerary please?

 

[maniacmartin]

The Oyster gap is a grey area, but I would expect staff on the ground to exercise common sense, and have never had a problem myself when I have explained that I planned to cross London on Oyster. However...

You should note that for most cases (walk-up or advance), if there is a ticket available to London Terminals, there is usually an equivalent ticket in the same quota to an appropriate ZONE UXXX* LONDN. These allow the ticketholder to make a single journey in the indicated zones on London Underground or DLR at either the beginning or end of the journey. As far as I'm aware they're not available further out than zone 6.

The Super-Off Peak Single from Plymouth to ZONE U1* LONDN is £37.60 with a Senior railcard, and would entitle your wife to travel from Marylebone.

If your wife wanted to be totally covered, before boarding the train she should go to the ticket office and obtain an overdistance excess on the existing ticket, to ZONE U1* LONDN, which will cost £37.60 minus the £35.65 you already paid = £1.95. Also buy a ticket from Marylebone to Rickmansworth Und, which would cost £4.90. This combination of paper tickets would cover the whole journey in a watertight way.Note that with the combination I specified here is at railcard discount prices, and would only be valid if travelling on Chiltern out of Marylebone.

If you're prepared to travel to Moor Park instead, simply buy an overdistance excess before boarding, changing the existing ticket to a Plymouth to ZONE U1256* LONDN, which costs £39.00 minus the £35.65 you already paid = £3.35. This would only be valid from Paddington on London Underground services, and not on Chiltern from Marylebone.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....The train company are within their rights to decline sale of such tickets if you only attempt to purchase them once disruption is known about and had declined earlier opportunities to purchase them....

Any tickets that are sold after disruption is known should be marked "Delay Advised" so that the person paying a fare may not claim compensation for a known delay.

 

[sheff1]

Any tickets that are sold after disruption is known should be marked "Delay Advised" so that the person paying a fare may not claim compensation for a known delay.

Interesting. I have never had a ticket endorsed in this manner. I always assumed the issue time on the ticket would be enough to confirm that the delay was known at the time of purchase.

 

[Deerfold]

Interesting. I have never had a ticket endorsed in this manner. I always assumed the issue time on the ticket would be enough to confirm that the delay was known at the time of purchase.

Whilst not impossible, it would take some research to identify where the train was at that time - probably not top of the list for staff trying to get assorted passengers home.

Do you buy many tickets on board for further travel once a delay is known about?

 

[AlterEgo]

Interesting. I have never had a ticket endorsed in this manner. I always assumed the issue time on the ticket would be enough to confirm that the delay was known at the time of purchase.

I've never ever seen a ticket endorsed like this, and I've seen well over 10,000 delay repay claims in my time, I'd reckon.

 

[bb21]

The Oyster gap is a grey area, but I would expect staff on the ground to exercise common sense, and have never had a problem myself when I have explained that I planned to cross London on Oyster. However...

If excessing, why not just go for the through fare to Rickmansworth?

If desire is to avoid the hassle of excesses, an Acton Mainline to Rickmansworth single would suffice.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Interesting. I have never had a ticket endorsed in this manner. I always assumed the issue time on the ticket would be enough to confirm that the delay was known at the time of purchase.

That is a big assumption. Many passengers arrive at a ticket office or ticket machine without having seen a departure board or having heard/paid attention to any announcements (if they are made). By writing/stamping "Delay Advised" on the ticket the passenger can ask what's going on if they have not actually been advised, and the person dealing with the compensation claim can know, with some confidence, that at the time of sale the passenger was aware that delays were occurring.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've never ever seen a ticket endorsed like this, and I've seen well over 10,000 delay repay claims in my time, I'd reckon.

From day one on the railway I was told is was required, as such I have always done it. When I worked in London the audits used to cover the availability of the 'delay advised' stamps.

 

[yorkie]

If excessing, why not just go for the through fare to Rickmansworth?.

Because a ticket from Plymouth to Rickmansworth is almost double the price of Plymouth to Paddington, that's why not

 

[bb21]

Because a ticket from Plymouth to Rickmansworth is almost double the price of Plymouth to Paddington, that's why not

Oh, yeah. Crazy world.

 

[sheff1]

Many passengers arrive at a ticket office or ticket machine without having seen a departure board or having heard/paid attention to any announcements (if they are made). By writing/stamping "Delay Advised" on the ticket the passenger can ask what's going on if they have not actually been advised, and the person dealing with the compensation claim can know, with some confidence, that at the time of sale the passenger was aware that delays were occurring.

I agree, but I have never had ticket endorsed in this way by a booking clerk - admittedly the sample is very small. Of course, if the ticket is purchased from a TVM there is no one there to endorse it.

Do you buy many tickets on board for further travel once a delay is known about?

Never. I was referring to buying at a booking office or TVM (see above).

 

[maniacmartin]

If desire is to avoid the hassle of excesses, an Acton Mainline to Rickmansworth single would suffice.

Good spot. I overlooked this ticket*, but at £7.65 with railcard discount it is relatively affordable and avoids the hassle of excesses.

* I blame the summer heat

 

[njr001]

Provided I can be assured an over distance excess to U1256 will be honoured and will get us to Moor Park, I will take that option as the last northbound from Marylebone departs 2327 and the last Baker Street departure is 0010. Also to get to Moor Park by road is going to take longer than getting to Ricky.
Being a gentleman, if a taxi driver were to insist on taking one passenger to Moor Park before the other to Ricky, I could wait at Moor Park whilst my wife is conveyed home and she could then drive and collect me

 

[bb21]

What's your booked time into Paddington?

 

[njr001]

Due to arrive 2154, I recall last year my son travelled back from Plymouth one evening and was over 2 hours late, I'm probably worrying unnecessarily.

 

[yorkie]

There isn't a 2154 arrival on Saturday, but there is on Sunday. So that must be it (this is hard work at times )

The last Chiltern service from Marylebone is 2327 and the last Metropolitan Railway service from Baker Street is 0010 ( http://content.tfl.gov.uk/fandl-metropolitan-ttn-50-16.pdf )

You therefore have nothing to worry about!

Even if it's 2 hours late you'd probably still make it, and if you were later than that, the fact one of you has a paper ticket means they are hardly likely to quibble over the intentions of the other customer using Osyter/Contactless.