Splitting GWR franchise - not very sensible?

[4-SUB 4732]

My best case scenario for the new franchise is to scrap the Bedwyn service from Paddington and use the 5 car 802s on it instead. Extend it through Pewsey and Westbury whilst you're there.

Intercity / Express
1tp2h PAD, RDG, THE, THA, NEW, HUN, BED, PEW, WSB, FRO, CLC, YVP, YVJ for connections on SWR.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, THE, THA, NEW, HUN, BED, PEW, WSB, CLC, TAU.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, TAU, TIV, EXD, NTA, TOT, IVY, PLY.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, TAU, TIV, EXD, NTA, TOT, PLY, LSK, BOD, PAR, SAU, TRU, RED, CAM, STE, PNZ.
1tph CDF, NWP, STJ, FIA, BRI, WSM, HIH, BWT, TAU, TIV, EXD, EXT, DAW, TEI, NTA, TQY, PAI (Castle HST)
1tph EXD, NTA, TOT, PLY, STS, SGM, LSK, BOD, LOS, PAR, SAU, TRU, RED, CAM, HAY, STE, PNZ.

Local Lines
1tph Barnstaple - Paignton all stops
2tph Exeter St Davids - Exmouth all stops (shunt via New Yard, no conflicting moves)
1tp2h PLY, SBF, STS, SGM, MEN, LSK, BOD, PAR, stations to Newquay (instead of 2tph down to Penzance, 1tp2h to Newquay to allow through services)
1tp2h PAR, SAU, TRU, STE, PNZ (connect with service from Plymouth to Newquay)
2tph Falmouth Branch
2tph St Ives Branch
Services on the Gunnislake and Looe branch as pathing permits

Westbury routes
1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour (Bristol Metro / Arriva Trains Wales covers other train per hour on the Cardiff to Bristol)
1tp2h Swindon to Weymouth (alternate hour from Castle Cary to Pen Mill to the Paddington to Yeovil Junction)
1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Southampton Central slow service (capacity relief on Portsmouth)

Bristol area (and Bristol Metro), Golden Valley, Bristol to Worcester, Cotswold line, Newbury, Basingstoke, Thames Valley, branches, Oxfords all stay as Great Western.

 

[HowardGWR]

^^^ I gather you want this to be a separate franchise. To what end? What's the benefit?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

^^^ I gather you want this to be a separate franchise. To what end? What's the benefit?

I don't want it to be a separate franchise but as the Government are stupid they will probably do it and therefore we should brace for a load of cack.

 

[HowardGWR]

I don't want it to be a separate franchise but as the Government are stupid they will probably do it and therefore we should brace for a load of cack.

Ah. I see your Cardiff to Portsmouth pax have to change at Bristol. Also, how many stops (and where) would your Bristol to Pompey services have? I gather this service was to be a fast one? The Southampton one was to be similar to the present one, perhaps even more stops?

 

[jhy44]

Franchises generally only have one benefit - reduced fares when there is direct competition. We see this most noticeably on the London - Birmingham route where three franchises compete to have lower fares and you can get a single for £3.95.

The only city that could benefit from competition if the route was split up into two geographical portions is Bristol:

Franchise A: (Northern Section) London - Swindon - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads
(and Parkway - Cardiff - Swansea, Swindon - Gloucester, Reading - Oxford - Worcester - Hereford, Bristol - Worcester)

Franchise B: (Southern Section) London - Swindon - Bath - Bristol Temple Meads
(Reading - Taunton - Exeter - Penzance, Cardiff - Portsmouth, North Downs)

These two separate routes and services into Temple Meads are already planned, so it would be a very neat way to split the franchise and hopefully give the poor people of Bristol who have some pretty high cheapest-advance fares at the moment some choice and competition.

 

[Revilo]

It's often misunderstood but the real competition privatisation was aiming for was not so much directly between companies on different lines (because that happens only relatively rarely eg London to Exeter) but that companies would compete when bidding for franchises.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

My best case scenario for the new franchise is to scrap the Bedwyn service from Paddington and use the 5 car 802s on it instead. Extend it through Pewsey and Westbury whilst you're there.

Intercity / Express
1tp2h PAD, RDG, THE, THA, NEW, HUN, BED, PEW, WSB, FRO, CLC, YVP, YVJ for connections on SWR.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, THE, THA, NEW, HUN, BED, PEW, WSB, CLC, TAU.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, TAU, TIV, EXD, NTA, TOT, IVY, PLY.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, TAU, TIV, EXD, NTA, TOT, PLY, LSK, BOD, PAR, SAU, TRU, RED, CAM, STE, PNZ.
1tph CDF, NWP, STJ, FIA, BRI, WSM, HIH, BWT, TAU, TIV, EXD, EXT, DAW, TEI, NTA, TQY, PAI (Castle HST)
1tph EXD, NTA, TOT, PLY, STS, SGM, LSK, BOD, LOS, PAR, SAU, TRU, RED, CAM, HAY, STE, PNZ.

Local Lines
1tph Barnstaple - Paignton all stops
2tph Exeter St Davids - Exmouth all stops (shunt via New Yard, no conflicting moves)
1tp2h PLY, SBF, STS, SGM, MEN, LSK, BOD, PAR, stations to Newquay (instead of 2tph down to Penzance, 1tp2h to Newquay to allow through services)
1tp2h PAR, SAU, TRU, STE, PNZ (connect with service from Plymouth to Newquay)
2tph Falmouth Branch
2tph St Ives Branch
Services on the Gunnislake and Looe branch as pathing permits

Westbury routes
1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour (Bristol Metro / Arriva Trains Wales covers other train per hour on the Cardiff to Bristol)
1tp2h Swindon to Weymouth (alternate hour from Castle Cary to Pen Mill to the Paddington to Yeovil Junction)
1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Southampton Central slow service (capacity relief on Portsmouth)

Bristol area (and Bristol Metro), Golden Valley, Bristol to Worcester, Cotswold line, Newbury, Basingstoke, Thames Valley, branches, Oxfords all stay as Great Western.

You fail to grasp the importance of Exeter Central as the primary local destination in the Exeter area. Other than the 2tph Exmouth, no other services go there, this is a huge flaw in the proposed timetable pattern, Barnstaple and Torbay pax will not be pleased.

 

[adrock1976]

My best case scenario for the new franchise is to scrap the Bedwyn service from Paddington and use the 5 car 802s on it instead. Extend it through Pewsey and Westbury whilst you're there.

Intercity / Express
1tp2h PAD, RDG, THE, THA, NEW, HUN, BED, PEW, WSB, FRO, CLC, YVP, YVJ for connections on SWR.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, THE, THA, NEW, HUN, BED, PEW, WSB, CLC, TAU.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, TAU, TIV, EXD, NTA, TOT, IVY, PLY.
1tp2h PAD, RDG, TAU, TIV, EXD, NTA, TOT, PLY, LSK, BOD, PAR, SAU, TRU, RED, CAM, STE, PNZ.
1tph CDF, NWP, STJ, FIA, BRI, WSM, HIH, BWT, TAU, TIV, EXD, EXT, DAW, TEI, NTA, TQY, PAI (Castle HST)
1tph EXD, NTA, TOT, PLY, STS, SGM, LSK, BOD, LOS, PAR, SAU, TRU, RED, CAM, HAY, STE, PNZ.

Local Lines
1tph Barnstaple - Paignton all stops
2tph Exeter St Davids - Exmouth all stops (shunt via New Yard, no conflicting moves)
1tp2h PLY, SBF, STS, SGM, MEN, LSK, BOD, PAR, stations to Newquay (instead of 2tph down to Penzance, 1tp2h to Newquay to allow through services)
1tp2h PAR, SAU, TRU, STE, PNZ (connect with service from Plymouth to Newquay)
2tph Falmouth Branch
2tph St Ives Branch
Services on the Gunnislake and Looe branch as pathing permits

Westbury routes
1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour (Bristol Metro / Arriva Trains Wales covers other train per hour on the Cardiff to Bristol)
1tp2h Swindon to Weymouth (alternate hour from Castle Cary to Pen Mill to the Paddington to Yeovil Junction)
1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Southampton Central slow service (capacity relief on Portsmouth)

Bristol area (and Bristol Metro), Golden Valley, Bristol to Worcester, Cotswold line, Newbury, Basingstoke, Thames Valley, branches, Oxfords all stay as Great Western.

Regarding the bold bit above, is this intended to run via Melksham?

Also for the "Intercity/Express section, there are a whole load of three letter codes, but nothing explaining what they mean. Being as it is forum policy not to use three letter codes for stations or abbreviations/acronyms without first saying what they mean, would it be possible to put a list of the three letter codes either at the beginning or end of the post please?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Ah. I see your Cardiff to Portsmouth pax have to change at Bristol. Also, how many stops (and where) would your Bristol to Pompey services have? I gather this service was to be a fast one? The Southampton one was to be similar to the present one, perhaps even more stops?

If it were up to me it would be Bristol, Bath, Bradford, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster, Salisbury, Southampton, Swanwick (very big commuter market), Fareham, Fratton, Southsea, Harbour...

No need to stop at Keynsham (assuming the Southampton stopper calls or even a 'Bristol Metro' type train does and it makes up at least 2tph), no need for Dilton, Romsey (the slow Southampton can do that) or Cosham which will be served by the second SWR from Pompey to Bomo. Swanwick perhaps only in peak but it's amazing how many people use it.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

You fail to grasp the importance of Exeter Central as the primary local destination in the Exeter area. Other than the 2tph Exmouth, no other services go there, this is a huge flaw in the proposed timetable pattern, Barnstaple and Torbay pax will not be pleased.

Removal of conflicting moves at St Davids and of course the delays which quickly accumulate on Platform 3. By having a higher quality service with interchange at Exeter (which could be cross platform from Central to Dawlish, Torbay etc) with other services running "straight lines" you'd have a more reliable timetable. Passengers would sooner be on time with a change of trains than be late because the train to Exmouth is stuck at Newton Abbot and then it knocks onto the one coming up which is sat at Topsham waiting for the single line...

 

[HowardGWR]

It's often misunderstood but the real competition privatisation was aiming for was not so much directly between companies on different lines (because that happens only relatively rarely eg London to Exeter) but that companies would compete when bidding for franchises.

Indeed. It's essentially the DfT that specifies services (4-SUB_4732 can only dream of anything else IMO) and the competition is as you state. This is because the DfT holds the purse strings. I thought it wanted fewer franchises, not more, as it makes the job easier.

 

[HH]

Indeed. It's essentially the DfT that specifies services (4-SUB_4732 can only dream of anything else IMO) and the competition is as you state. This is because the DfT holds the purse strings. I thought it wanted fewer franchises, not more, as it makes the job easier.

No, no, no. If there are two possible decisions, DfT will make the wrong one. Therefore the franchise will be split - when it eventually happens...

 

[4-SUB 4732]

No, no, no. If there are two possible decisions, DfT will make the wrong one. Therefore the franchise will be split - when it eventually happens...

Exactly! The DfT are ‘consulting’ - aka the DfT have made a terrible decision and wish to give the illusion that they are going to take feedback on board. The bad decision has already been made and they don’t care.

 

[jimm]

And you know this because?

The DfT was effectively duty-bound to put the idea of a split into the consultation to butter up a number of politicians in the South West who, in spite of all the evidence of improvements staring them in the face in the shape of enhanced services and booming passenger numbers on services in the region since FGW/GWR replaced Wessex Trains, seem to think they are being run from London/Swindon, the people at the top are remote/don't care etc, etc...

As I have said previously, the responses to the idea of a split into two franchises have been almost universally hostile, whether you are talking about Aslef, the Thames Valley Chamber of Commerce or Conservative MPs - plenty of the responses are in the public domain and can be found using Google.

The Thames Valley Chamber noted from their reading of the DfT's own consultation paper that

The analysis provided in pages 23-24 of advantages and disadvantages clearly favours a single franchise.

https://www.thamesvalleychamber.co....VCC-Response-Great-Western-rail-franchise.pdf

And the Peninsula Rail Group, which might perhaps be thought to have favoured a South West-focused franchise, said the following:

We have been clear that we are not looking for a change in the franchise geography, but instead changes in infrastructure, timetables and train fleets which will consequently transform the levels of service to the PRTF region.

https://peninsularailtaskforce.co.uk/peninsula-rail-task-force-newsroom/current-news/

In the face of those kind of remarks, and plenty more in the same vein, even a Transport Secretary as brass-necked as Chris Grayling would have some explaining to do if he announced a split.

 

[irish_rail]

Several MPs in Plymouth and Exeter equally hostile , it really is a miracle the idea ever came to the table , now let's hope it dies a quick death and we move on with genuine ways of improving rail links to the south west....

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Regarding the bold bit above, is this intended to run via Melksham?

Also for the "Intercity/Express section, there are a whole load of three letter codes, but nothing explaining what they mean. Being as it is forum policy not to use three letter codes for stations or abbreviations/acronyms without first saying what they mean, would it be possible to put a list of the three letter codes either at the beginning or end of the post please?

Yes. Melksham deserves at least a regular, two-hourly service to Swindon and Chippenham. Might as well extend it out of the other end to Weymouth via Pen Mill and provide connectivity for places like Dorchester, Weymouth, Yeovil and Castle Cary through to Swindon for the onward connections.

 

[MarkyT]

Yes. Melksham deserves at least a regular, two-hourly service to Swindon and Chippenham. Might as well extend it out of the other end to Weymouth via Pen Mill and provide connectivity for places like Dorchester, Weymouth, Yeovil and Castle Cary through to Swindon for the onward connections.

Local community rail user groups have proposed an alternative to link up the Melksham trains with local trains in the Solent area. I think it's best to keep the Weymouth trains going to and from Bristol.

 

[swt_passenger]

Local community rail user groups have proposed an alternative to link up the Melksham trains with local trains in the Solent area. I think it's best to keep the Weymouth trains going to and from Bristol.

This is one of the problems with these sort of threads when they diverge into a sort of “My ideas for a completely different service pattern entirely” when they differ significantly with what is already being planned or proposed, either in existing published franchise plans, or in existing well researched proposals from recognised stakeholders, such as Trans Wilts, which have come up in earlier discussions.