St. Helens Line

[Railwaysceptic]

The St. Helens Line has a line speed of only 60mph. Did trains ever run faster than that? North of St. Helens Central much of the formation seems once to have been four track. Is this correct and when was it reduced to two track?

 

[Bevan Price]

It was four tracks between the former Carr Mill Jn and the Ince Moss / Springs Branch area. The slow lines were for freight - mainly coal, and connected to several collieries adjacent to the line. The slow lines had no platforms at Bryn or Garswood, and from memory, they closed in the mid to late 1950s, along with the collieries they served. Freights from the Wigan area heading towards the Widnes area could avoid St. Helens Shaw Street by using the now-closed avoiding line between Carr Mill Jn & Sutton Oak Jn via Blackbrook.
Until the collieries closed, the nominal line speed was largely irrelevant - the whole area was afflicted by TSRs due to mining subsidence.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It was four tracks between the former Carr Mill Jn and the Ince Moss / Springs Branch area. The slow lines were for freight - mainly coal, and connected to several collieries adjacent to the line. The slow lines had no platforms at Bryn or Garswood, and from memory, they closed in the mid to late 1950s, along with the collieries they served. Freights from the Wigan area heading towards the Widnes area could avoid St. Helens Shaw Street by using the now-closed avoiding line between Carr Mill Jn & Sutton Oak Jn via Blackbrook.
Until the collieries closed, the nominal line speed was largely irrelevant - the whole area was afflicted by TSRs due to mining subsidence.

Thank you. Has the ground stabilised since mining ceased?

 

[KevinTurvey]

There are a couple of noticeable gradients on this route, along with a couple of twisty curves maybe 60mph top speed even with electrification and current station spacing this is the best we can hope for? I used to travel this route regularly when it was dmus and class 31s, which is why I know where the hills are!
Does anyone have information on what the gradient numbers are? I can't find them in the Ian Allan gradient profile book.
Thanks

 

[alistairlees]

I too was recently surprised to find that the Huyton to Wigan (via St Helens) Line was just 60mph. It feels very much like a hangover from coal mining / freight / more complex junctions. I appreciate there are a few tight curves (30mph), but with current speed restrictions journey times are unlikely to be ever competitive (there are new roads that have been built since the 19th century! But no new railways here...) and this rail travel between (for example) Liverpool and Preston will forever be a poor relation to driving.

 

[alistairlees]

Duplicate post from phone ...

 

[Revaulx]

I too was recently surprised to find that the Huyton to Wigan (via St Helens) Line was just 60mph. It feels very much like a hangover from coal mining / freight / more complex junctions. I appreciate there are a few tight curves (30mph), but with current speed restrictions journey times are unlikely to be ever competitive (there are new roads that have been built since the 19th century! But no new railways here...) and this rail travel between (for example) Liverpool and Preston will forever be a poor relation to driving.

True. It would be great if there were a direct line through Ormskirk.

Oh wait...

 

[Bevan Price]

There are a couple of noticeable gradients on this route, along with a couple of twisty curves maybe 60mph top speed even with electrification and current station spacing this is the best we can hope for? I used to travel this route regularly when it was dmus and class 31s, which is why I know where the hills are!
Does anyone have information on what the gradient numbers are? I can't find them in the Ian Allan gradient profile book.
Thanks

Yes. Go here:

RailwayData | Line Files & Gradient Profiles

Line files and gradient profiles for the Great British Railway network.

www.railwaydata.co.uk

and locate SBH1, SBH2 & SBH3.
Links lead to some pdf files.
The line was raised by several feet near Bryn when the M6 was being built, so the gradient there may be a bit steeper than shown if the source data were not updated at that time.
As this is my local line, I would suggest that there are some sections where the line limit ought to be capable of being increased to 75 mph - but not sure how much that would cost.

 

[Bevan Price]

Thank you. Has the ground stabilised since mining ceased?

Yes, the effects of subsidence have largely gone, but Carr Mill Viaduct still has a 40 mph limit.