St Leonards WSq fare confusion by Nat Rail, Southern & souteastern

[Robsignals]

Edit: Sorry, my original interpretation was wrong not the fares which are just highly confusing! See #5 for a better explanation.

Hello, a complaint on Southern's fb page led me to discover incorrect fare results for St Leonards Warrior Square [[stn]SLQ[/stn]] to London Victoria [[stn]VIC[/stn]] day return. SLQ is the southeastern (SE) station before Hastings also served by Southern (SN) via Haywards Heath, using VIC effectively gives SN only trains. National Rail search for Mon-Fri out 0930 back 1730 gives a £21.20 fare named 'Super Off Peak Day Return' (SSR) out from 0957 returning on 1735. Clicking through to SE confirms the times but returning they were refused by Vic barrier staff.

Looking at SN shows that the 'Super Off Peak Day Return' via Haywards Heath (PDR) is £16 (£13.90 with SN discount) not valid 1615 - 1915. But £21.20 is the 'Super Off Peak Return' (SSR) which is valid all evening and on the faster SE route. So having paid the higher price they - parents and three under 5's - were treated as if they had the cheaper ticket and had tried to break the rules when they were following the times given and delayed nearly 2 hrs getting home.

How many other fare errors are there, can't journey planners more clearly show that changing travel time by an hour or two can give a worthwhile saving and a cheaper fare is more likely from the relevant TOC's website? There's still a long way to go in making the railway simple to use for the ordinary public.

 

[bb21]

The ticket in question is

St Leonards W Sq - London Terminals
Route NOT VALID ON HS1
Super Off-Peak Day Return
£21.20

This ticket has restriction B1, the full text of which is

Restriction : B1
OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train except those
timed to depart Mondays to
Fridays before 0930

RETURN TRAVEL
By any train

It would seem that Southern are the ones you should be writing to, as it is their staff who have incorrectly refused travel.

On a side note, the code for this particular Super Off-Peak Day Return is SRR, and the code for Off-Peak Return is SVR. OPR is the code for Super Off-Peak Return.

 

[barrykas]

Oh the joys of privatisation...By the looks of it, the "Any Permitted" fares seem to be primarily aimed at people using the direct trains into Charing Cross (yes, I do appreciate that a through train is always permitted) and the Southern staff are getting confused between their Super Off-Peak (formerly Pricebuster) conditions and Southeastern's.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[island]

In future, they should invite the barrier staff to look up the restriction code for the Super Off-Peak Day Return ticket in question, and mention that the ticket is priced by Southeastern. In the meantime, they should lodge a Delay Repay claim as their journey was delayed.

 

[Robsignals]

Thanks all, but it just gets more confusing!

On a side note, the code for this particular Super Off-Peak Day Return is SRR, and the code for Off-Peak Return is SVR. OPR is the code for Super Off-Peak Return.

Looking at it from the perspective of ordinary members of the public who shouldn't need to know about the inner workings I used the initials of the names as the public don't know or care about the correct codes, which aren't very logical, or who prices a fare.

I like to think I can understand planner results but if I haven't realised that SE have introduced (using correct codes) an SRR at £21.20 with different conditions to SN PDR (£16 from SE, £13.90 from SN until 23/08) then what chance has the ordinary customer? The SE SRR is valid from 0930 M-F (SE says 1000) return any time and is valid on SN whose SRR is arrive VIC from 1055, no return 1615 - 1915 and is not valid on SE. SE call them both 'Super Off Peak' but SN calls the SE one 'Off Peak' and SN also has a CDR at £24.20 until 23/08 with the same validity - why would anyone buy that?

The results from both planners vary according to the chosen London destination, using VIC excludes all SE services even on the SE planner and even though they give the faster journey to 'London', this was the only 'mistake' they made that the railway has failed to protect them from.

 

[bb21]

I like to think I can understand planner results but if I haven't realised that SE have introduced (using correct codes) an SRR at £21.20 with different conditions to SN PDR (£16 from SE, £13.90 from SN until 23/08) then what chance has the ordinary customer? The SE SRR is valid from 0930 M-F (SE says 1000) return any time and is valid on SN whose SRR is arrive VIC from 1055, no return 1615 - 1915 and is not valid on SE. SE call them both 'Super Off Peak' but SN calls the SE one 'Off Peak' and SN also has a CDR at £24.20 until 23/08 with the same validity - why would anyone buy that?

The answer for you is "Simplification".

ATOC, and the government, hailed it as a success. My mind still boggles as to how it is now that we have different ticket types all sharing the same name.

 

[johnnycache]

I work for Southern and will take this up - my initial reaction is that the southeastern super off-peak returns do not have evening peak restrictions whereas the southern super off-peak returns do. The staff at Victoria have failed to notice which type of ticket was being held. I must apologise for this error but i'm partly responsible for it myself as our main efforts have been to communicate the time restrictions of our own super off-peak tickets (for instance departure boards at Victoria now say super off-peak tickets not valid on trains leaving between 1615 and 1915 mondays to fridays) and the point about southeastern tickets never really occured to us. Of course it is rare for passengers from Hastings or St Leonards to travel with us rather than southeastern as the journey is longer - normally we rely on our cheaper prices to attract customers. If you would like to PM your details to me i could arrange some compensation for the trouble/reward for pointing out this issue.
Thank you

 

[Robsignals]

I work for Southern and will take this up - my initial reaction is that the southeastern super off-peak returns do not have evening peak restrictions whereas the southern super off-peak returns do. The staff at Victoria have failed to notice which type of ticket was being held. I must apologise for this error but i'm partly responsible for it myself as our main efforts have been to communicate the time restrictions of our own super off-peak tickets (for instance departure boards at Victoria now say super off-peak tickets not valid on trains leaving between 1615 and 1915 mondays to fridays) and the point about southeastern tickets never really occured to us. Of course it is rare for passengers from Hastings or St Leonards to travel with us rather than southeastern as the journey is longer - normally we rely on our cheaper prices to attract customers. If you would like to PM your details to me i could arrange some compensation for the trouble/reward for pointing out this issue.
Thank you

Thanks, it wasn't me that was affected but I tried to help the person who has made a complaint to Southern. At the moment I don't have much chance to travel, must be over a year since I was last on a train. Have to make a few more posts to get PM's, I have some q's for you which I will put in another thread about East/West Coastway unfairness.