St Pancras ticket office won't sell CIV tickets

[oversteer]

After a change of plans needed to buy a CIV ticket for travel tomorrow AM, so decided to purchase it from the National Rail ticket office at St Pancras.

I was quite surprised to find that the lady behind the counter refused to sell it to me!

She said "I am not allowed to sell CIV tickets here. We have been told not to."

So I had to buy it on my phone then collect it from the TVM next to the desk, which was a bit annoying, and spend an extra £2.50 for the privilege (RSH doesn't sell CIVs)

Is it worth putting in a complaint about this? Surely a NR ticket office should sell the full range of tickets..especially when it's the destination in question!

Who operates the ticket office?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

St Pancras has two National Rail ticket offices, one run by EMT and one run by Thameslink (or whatever they are called this week). Without checking schedule 17 it's impossible for me to know what each office can, or should, sell, but if the office you were at was not the lead operator then they may not have had to sell the CIV tickets anyway.

 

[bb21]

There are three ticket offices at St Pancras / King's Cross. Surely if £2.50 were that big a deal you would have tried the other two? (I assume that you only tried it a short time before your post.)

Did you have the international ticket with you when you asked for the CIV ticket?

 

[oversteer]

On here -
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_STP/plan.html?rtnloc=STP

I went to the "National Rail Ticket Office". I didn't see any operator specific branding, and I didn't know there were others.

I'm not fussed about the £2.50, it just annoys me when I get the runaround. We had the E* ticket with us.

 

[TUC]

There are three ticket offices at St Pancras / King's Cross. Surely if £2.50 were that big a deal you would have tried the other two? (I assume that you only tried it a short time before your post.)

Did you have the international ticket with you when you asked for the CIV ticket?

Leaving aside what the writer of the OP did/did not know about ticket offices at St Pancras, as a general point it hardly seems reasonable that passengers should be expected to know about multiple ticket offices or to have to do a tour of them.

 

[bb21]

On here -
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_STP/plan.html?rtnloc=STP

I went to the "National Rail Ticket Office". I didn't see any operator specific branding, and I didn't know there were others.

I'm not fussed about the £2.50, it just annoys me when I get the runaround. We had the E* ticket with us.

Was it one of those counters with screens or without? If the former, was it the one with two windows or four?

Leaving aside what the writer of the OP did/did not know about ticket offices at St Pancras, as a general point it hardly seems reasonable that passengers should be expected to know about multiple ticket offices or to have to do a tour of them.

That's not what I said (regarding what is reasonable).

The OP is a regular on the forum so I would be very surprised if he didn't know King's Cross were right next door.

 

[oversteer]

Was it one of those counters with screens or without? If the former, was it the one with two windows or four?



That's not what I said (regarding what is reasonable).

The OP is a regular on the forum so I would be very surprised if he didn't know King's Cross were right next door.

I'd parked in the car park, and just went to the first that I saw. I assumed that was the only one, other than Eurostar - it had four windows, I think (although two on the other side all seemed part of the same queuing system?)

Good point about KX, although I was in a rush to get everything done in an hour before the car park cost went up another £7 !

 

[bb21]

I see. That would have been the EMT one so you will need to address your complaint to EMT (if you fancy one).

EMT have 5 (or 6?) counters facing the escalators, plus another 2 around the corner facing the main departure screens. There are four more counters run by Thameslink further on from the two around the corner. I always prefer to use this station if I am in London and have a complicated enquiry, as there are three chances of getting the ticket (including the King's Cross one).

Good point about the car parking charges. No offence intended by my original reply. A complaint hardly seemed worth the effort imo but opinions vary. I was just surprised that (without any context) you didn't try King's Cross who I believe are quite good these days.

 

[oversteer]

None taken it's just annoying when you can't get the ticket you want first time. Not sure why SET would tell their staff not to sell CIVs, at St Pancras of all places. Might pop them an email asking why.

Normally, I use the excellent Eurostar Domestic Sales, who I would always recommend to anyone buying CIV tickets.

 

[RJ]

Perhaps the lady in the EMT ticket office was getting the London Eurostar CIV ticket confused with the London International CIV ticket.

Complain about it - often, it's the only way a manager will become aware of an issue, so they can brief their staff as appropriate. Hopefully then, nobody else has to be inconvenienced by the misunderstanding.

 

[amateur]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a CIV ticket? What does CIV stand for, and what's the perk of buying one.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

CIV = International Convention for the transportation of Passengers (French: Convention Internationale pour le transport des Voyageurs)

Amongst other things, CIV tickets provide a guarantee of onward cross border travel in the event of delays on a domestic journey, other tickets do not.

 

[pne]

Normally, I use the excellent Eurostar Domestic Sales, who I would always recommend to anyone buying CIV tickets.

Is that a physical location somewhere, or are you referring to calling 01233 617913 (or some other number)?

I'm in the market for a CIV ticket, and couldn't get through on the phone, so going to an actual Eurostar place might be useful, especially since the only fares available from Horsham to Lndon Estar CIV are walk-up ones anyway so it doesn't matter if I buy them just a couple of days early.

 

[island]

None taken it's just annoying when you can't get the ticket you want first time. Not sure why SET would tell their staff not to sell CIVs, at St Pancras of all places. Might pop them an email asking why.

Normally, I use the excellent Eurostar Domestic Sales, who I would always recommend to anyone buying CIV tickets.

I don't believe Southeastern operates a booking office at St. Pancakes.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed. SET simply has staff at the gates to stop people travelling with valid tickets! (joke)

 

[GatwickDepress]

Indeed. SET simply has staff at the gates to stop people travelling with valid tickets! (joke)

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

 

[rdwarr]

I had a look at the two ticket offices as I was walking through St Pancras this morning.

The EMT one has a big sign outside it saying "National Rail Tickets" whilst the Thameslink one has a big sign outside saying "National Rail Tickets".

Nobody could be expected to know that they may not both sell the same tickets.

 

[island]

They should both sell the same tickets. That's the problem.

 

[CyrusWuff]

They should both sell the same tickets. That's the problem.

Though, strictly speaking, the Thameslink office doesn't have to sell anything other than their own tickets as they're not the "Lead Retailer" at the station, and historically (when Kings Cross Thameslink was still open) they were a lower grade than the MML/EMT staff.

In practice, I'd guess they'll probably sell most walk up tickets, but refer you to the EMT office for Advances and Reservations.

As for the signage, at one point the plan was for EMT to handle all of the domestic ticketing, hence the lack of branding, and I believe there was a plan for a separate office for the Kent Domestics as well, though again that would have been staffed by EMT.

 

[Clip]

I think now they do have to sell everything as they are on the concourse for everyone...

 

[RJ]

I think some are under the misimpression secondary retailer never have have a requirement to be impartial. The two terms are not interchangeable and mean different things. The Thameslink ticket office is an impartial retailer, with its own entry in Schedule 17.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I think some are under the misimpression secondary retailer never have have a requirement to be impartial. The two terms are not interchangeable and mean different things. The Thameslink ticket office is an impartial retailer, with its own entry in Schedule 17.

Should have been more detailed in my previous response...Whilst they're not obliged to offer a "full service" as they're not the Lead Retailer, that they choose to do so means normal impartiality rules and other retailing standards apply.

As for the signage, the use of "National Rail Tickets" is in line with the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement, which forbids TOC-specific branding for impartial points of sale.

 

[GatwickDepress]

It's all a bit confusing for passengers who just wish to purchase a ticket, isn't it?

 

[jon0844]

It is silly to have ever had two separate offices next to each other. I can just about accept a separate one for Eurostar and other international services, but for the UK?

 

[Nicholas43]

I know there have been previous threads about this, but does anyone have an update on the famous London Terminals<->Calais via P&O NOT HS Anytime day return? In principle, should the St Pancras Midland ticket office sell this? - (with the boat "control tickets"), and HS supplement(s) if I want them?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I know there have been previous threads about this, but does anyone have an update on the famous London Terminals<->Calais via P&O NOT HS Anytime day return? In principle, should the St Pancras Midland ticket office sell this? - (with the boat "control tickets"), and HS supplement(s) if I want them?

My reading of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement suggests they should, as it appears to meet the definition of a "Basic Product" and is valid for travel from StP in conjunction with the Upgrade. Enforcing the TSA is a different matter entirely, however!

 

[trentside]

I know there have been previous threads about this, but does anyone have an update on the famous London Terminals<->Calais via P&O NOT HS Anytime day return? In principle, should the St Pancras Midland ticket office sell this? - (with the boat "control tickets"), and HS supplement(s) if I want them?

Their ticket issuing system is capable of issuing it, providing they've actually heard of it then it should present no problems. If they haven't the details are on the iKnowledgeBase.

 

[DEE-DE]

I know there have been previous threads about this, but does anyone have an update on the famous London Terminals<->Calais via P&O NOT HS Anytime day return? In principle, should the St Pancras Midland ticket office sell this? - (with the boat "control tickets"), and HS supplement(s) if I want them?

I did London to Calais this Saturday. First I went to the EMT office at STP. They wouldn't sell it to me and told me to go to Charing Cross. This was obviously not an option as I had to use the high speed line as it was already 9 am. So I went over to King's Cross where the EastCoast office managed to sell me one in minutes. I asked for control tickets but they said there were no control tickets. They didn't seem to familiar with these tickets though as the guy said to the one next to him "Look at this" because they were surprised at how cheap it was with a railcard. Also they weren't entirely sure about the high speed upgrade as to what abbreviation meant what type (Single, Off-Peak Ret and Any-time ret).

They didn't look up anything in the manual, they just typed in London Terminals and Calais and got the fare. They just didn't get the upgrade on the first attempt because that meant having to change the destination to Dover Priory.

In Dover the P&O staff kept the outward journey, possibly because of the lack of a control ticket. They also gave me boarding passes for the return. I still had to present the train ticket in Calais and they ended up copying it.
Total costs were £26.05 for the ticket, £3.65 for the high speed upgrade and 5-6 quid each way for the taxi. the taxi is obviously not necessary but that way I managed to catch the next ferry and the next train, both times with just a few minutes to spare to Check-In/departure.

I walked into Calais. I thought about heading onwards to Boulogne but there are very few trains on the Weekend. So I can't report on whether or not SNCF would've sold me a ticket with RailPlus discount.

Oh, and lastly, the Guard on the train said he would've been able to sell me these tickets. Though I suppose that depends on whether or not you manage to get through the ticket barrier.

 

[oversteer]

It would be good to email EMT about the ticketing issue .. [email protected]

 

[Nicholas43]

Many thanks, CyrusWuff, trentside, and DEE-DE for your informative replies, and oversteer for your interesting suggestion.
In early 2014, a clerk at the St Pancras EMT office told me he "couldn't" sell me the Calais ticket, even after I mentioned H426. I filled in a complaint form on the spot, got no response whatever, and couldn't be bothered to pursue it.
In December 2014 I was of course able to buy the London<->Calais SDR at Victoria, from the ticket office that appeared to me to be branded Southern. The clerk immediately knew the ticket existed, but had to ask a colleague how to issue the "control" tickets, which turned out to look like "supplements".
At Dover, the P&O check-in staff retained the outward London>Calais actual ticket, but appeared not to have seen a control ticket before, and had no interest in retaining it. Sorry, I can't remember what happened at Calais.
Staying strictly on topic, is the London<->Calais SDR a CIV ticket? CIV wasn't printed on mine. If they are CIV, would someone have to put me up at Dover if the last sensible Calais>Dover boat were delayed, and I consequently missed the last Dover>London?