St Pancras timings for Eurostar

[jon0844]

On my recent trip, people were queuing around via The Circle and right back to Euston Road outside*. I was sure this wasn't right, so went in to be told that people were queuing way too early (we would have been too, but as we saw the queue the first instinct was to join in!) and to go and grab a coffee and come back an hour before.

They did send people round to tell them they didn't have to queue, but many decided to anyway. We went to Benugo and had a beer and some food while watching the queue, and people who were where we were joining had decided to wait even though we'd told people around us not to queue! Guess staff can only do so much too, and I suspect one reason is that people are seeing the images of airports and assuming the same issues for Eurostar - and panicking.

We waited until an hour before and just joined the queue that had by then reduced to only being about as far as the down escalators from the EMR platforms. We cruised through security/passport and boarded without issue. The only downside was having been a bit poorer for having had two rounds and some food we wouldn't have had queuing for an hour or two!

* I see they also get people to queue past Wetherspoons and towards Camden on occasion, as well as the zig zag barriers inside. It does seem a bit inconsistent - but the problem is surely that people insist on queuing and may not realise that 'airside' there isn't much room - so you really don't want to go through early, even if they let you at all.

 

[Sm5]

I used Eurostar in May, queued for 2 hours at St Pancras, we had about 15 minutes to wait before boarding. Very long queues but it was moving, all gates were open, it just takes time.
I assume its the extra time associated with French checking and stamping UK passports post Brexit… its no longer wave and go.

Return from Paris was a grade A mess. We got back to Gare Du Nord with a 4 hour connection, intending to grab lunch, pick up some last minute shopping and then join the queue. The queues were out the station, and people were queung for trains that left an hour earlier. We quickly grabbed a bite and spent 3 hours queuing…. We literally made our train and they closed the doors behind us. I have to image most people missed that train and ours was full with people on planned trains leaving 1-2 hours earlier.

The issue is squarely UK immigration, the Ticket and French customs were all gates open, on the UK side only half were. Every few minutes someone was being held at a gate for further inspection of their passport, mostly Europeans being questioned and asked to prove documents associated with visiting the UK, no spare staff so the gate closed whilst it was resolved. When it was our turn the UK passport lady said its been like it for weeks, 12 hours a day and she and everyone else were pretty much at wits end.. they are under staffed and UK passport formalities for thousands of Europeans visiting was overwhelming a system that had been downsized for covid, but not upsized to match Brexit's new needs… she said she rotates around UK airports and they are seeing similar issues….
in short Brexit passport checks take time, on both sides of the borders, but a system downsized for Covid is not being re-scaled to larger than pre-2019 to match the new Brexit reality.

 

[jon0844]

We returned at the start of June and there was no issue at either the French/EU check or the UK one.. and going out a few days previous, we cruised through without issue from the UK.

Before the pandemic, when French authorities were working to rule, it was a nightmare because they all went on break at once - and we literally had to wait until they returned. It was perhaps a good sign of what was to come post-Brexit, although as I said - we didn't experience any issues either direction.

 

[bspahh]

I went on the 17.56 from Brussels to London on 14/06/22. I arrived 60 minutes early as advised and the queue was snaking around the concourse at Midi and eventually went out the entrance onto the the street. It was roasting hot in there and very unorganised. To cut a long story short we left 70 minutes late. The excuse that Eurostar gave for the long queues and delay in departure was was that the train was fully booked!

I was on the equivalent train from Rotterdam on Saturday. In Rotterdam, there was only a ticket check, apparently because there weren't enough UK staff for the passport checks. The train was on time when it arrived in Brussels. We then had to leave, and check back in through the concourse. It left an hour late, and arrived at St Pancras 61 minutes late. Without prompting, Eurostar sent an email about the delay compensation (30% in vouchers). I don't think the delay was unexpected.

 

[DanielB]

I was on the equivalent train from Rotterdam on Saturday. In Rotterdam, there was only a ticket check, apparently because there weren't enough UK staff for the passport checks.

According to a Dutch passenger on Twitter there was a technical problem with the equipment for scanning passports in Rotterdam.

 

[davetheguard]

Slightly off topic, but reading these reports of recent journeys on Eurostar reminds me how it was when the service first started from Waterloo:

Twenty minute check-in.
Only about 10% of passengers had their bags scanned - most of the time you just walked on by.
Passport control done at your seat on the train.
And on the odd occasion I splashed out & went first, it was just that - hot towel & a glass of bubbly even before the train pulled out of the platform. And hot food. (Yes, I know you can still have that if you pay the sky high business fares - but not something I'd ever be able to justify).

At least we've now got HS1 rather than the trundle through south London, but in some respects, the service is a shadow of its former self, and almost all of the blame for all the check in hastles lies firmly with the government.

 

[Beebman]

Only about 10% of passengers had their bags scanned - most of the time you just walked on by.

I can clearly remember the date of the last time I was waved through Eurostar's security without a bag scan - it was 10/09/2001 and we all know what happened the following day...

 

[duesselmartin]

to be fare, similar downgrades also happened on Thalys. Premier divided into two products creating basically a three class product.

DB has generally downgraded the IC brand with the introduction of IC2 and we will have loco-hauled ICE-L in future.

I think its down to economics, competing with cheaper modes of transport, be it plane, bus or a cheap Flix-type train.

 

[davetheguard]

I can clearly remember the date of the last time I was waved through Eurostar's security without a bag scan - it was 10/09/2001 and we all know what happened the following day...

Well I don't actually, but I think I can guess.

If you're talking terrorism, then when do you stop? Scans to use the tube; to enter every shop or public place; roadblocks in the streets? Planes, yes of course, because a plane can fall out of the sky and kill everyone on board.

I've never heard of a train falling out of the sky; so it comes down to whether we want that sort of interference in our daily lives, or not.

 

[duesselmartin]

no bag scan would have helped againt 9/11.

If you want to create carnage and Eurostar is too tough, take a commuter train. See London Underground a few years later.
Fact is ,we don't live in a secure world and terrorists should not dictate or way of life.

 

[davetheguard]

I think its down to economics, competing with cheaper modes of transport, be it plane, bus or a cheap Flix-type train.

Ah yes, the race to the bottom.

Why do I always naively hope competition will raise standards & improve service?

Getting more back on topic, I wonder if Eurostar have any information about how every increase in check in times decreases their market share? I'm sure they do.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Slightly off topic, but reading these reports of recent journeys on Eurostar reminds me how it was when the service first started from Waterloo:

Twenty minute check-in.
Only about 10% of passengers had their bags scanned - most of the time you just walked on by.
Passport control done at your seat on the train.
And on the odd occasion I splashed out & went first, it was just that - hot towel & a glass of bubbly even before the train pulled out of the platform. And hot food. (Yes, I know you can still have that if you pay the sky high business fares - but not something I'd ever be able to justify).

At least we've now got HS1 rather than the trundle through south London, but in some respects, the service is a shadow of its former self, and almost all of the blame for all the check in hastles lies firmly with the government.

I think it's safe to say that the Channel Tunnel has fallen far short of what it is actually capable of. I remember that the original idea was that it would be effectively turn-up-and-go, which is why the car check-in at Folkestone and Calais was built in the style of a traditional toll booth, and also why the juxtaposed border controls were originally used.

Speaking of Eurostar, I think it's also a huge shame that it's deteriorated so far. There's absolutely no need for the security theatre that takes place, it would be more than enough to have an AI-led intelligence system to select passengers for security checks, while leaving the vast majority to proceed without scanning baggage. It's the same with border controls: it's perfectly possible for them to take place on board, again with AI and API used to determine who should be pulled aside for a secondary passport check before departure. The truth is that the majority of passengers only receive a cursory inspection at best, so it should be possible to pre-clear people without requiring them to physically present their passport.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I think it's safe to say that the Channel Tunnel has fallen far short of what it is actually capable of. I remember that the original idea was that it would be effectively turn-up-and-go, which is why the car check-in at Folkestone and Calais was built in the style of a traditional toll booth, and also why the juxtaposed border controls were originally used.

Speaking of Eurostar, I think it's also a huge shame that it's deteriorated so far. There's absolutely no need for the security theatre that takes place, it would be more than enough to have an AI-led intelligence system to select passengers for security checks, while leaving the vast majority to proceed without scanning baggage. It's the same with border controls: it's perfectly possible for them to take place on board, again with AI and API used to determine who should be pulled aside for a secondary passport check before departure. The truth is that the majority of passengers only receive a cursory inspection at best, so it should be possible to pre-clear people without requiring them to physically present their passport.

I largely agree with this view. However, I don't think it's true to say that, with regard to passports, "the majority of passengers only receive a cursory inspection at best". With machine-readable passports, I presume that more or less all of them are automatically checked against a watchlist, as well as seeing that they appear to match the person presenting them.

But certainly baggage scanning could be done on a random and/or intelligence-led basis, in the way that customs checks tend to be undertaken. That would cut check-in congestion massively.

Assuming that the refusal to check passports on the train is - still - more of a function of UK official nervousness than it is of Schengen requirements, then checks from the UK outwards could be done on board. (Though of course the juxtaposed checks for in-bound passengers would still be required by the UK - and those are precisely the ones which stop Eurostar from linking with a larger range of continental destinations.)

 

[jon0844]

Imagine if instead of an EU referendum, we'd sought to join the Schengen Area. Maybe the tunnel would have become what we all hoped it would/could be.

 

[davetheguard]

Assuming that the refusal to check passports on the train is - still - more of a function of UK official nervousness than it is of Schengen requirements

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the attraction to the Home Office of juxtaposed passport checks is that with British officials checking passports on French soil, it is impossible for people to arrive in the U.K. and claim asylum; they're still in France.

With passport checks on the train itself, that wouldn't work.

 

[Watershed]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the attraction to the Home Office of juxtaposed passport checks is that with British officials checking passports on French soil, it is impossible for people to arrive in the U.K. and claim asylum; they're still in France.

With passport checks on the train itself, that wouldn't work.

But surely exactly the same issue exists with flights? A basic check of passports and any required additional documentation is made at the boarding gate, and clearly something equivalent would have to be done with Eurostar too.

 

[Trainbike46]

But surely exactly the same issue exists with flights? A basic check of passports and any required additional documentation is made at the boarding gate, and clearly something equivalent would have to be done with Eurostar too.

But then you just turn one check into two. I don't see how that would be an advantage. At least with the current set-up you only have to worry about it at one side, not both

 

[Watershed]

But then you just turn one check into two. I don't see how that would be an advantage. At least with the current set-up you only have to worry about it at one side, not both

You would clearly still need to check tickets before boarding; adding the passport check would barely add any time to this.

 

[davetheguard]

But surely exactly the same issue exists with flights? A basic check of passports and any required additional documentation is made at the boarding gate, and clearly something equivalent would have to be done with Eurostar too.

Yes, of course. But the point remains its a policy designed to stop people coming here and claiming asylum.

The fact that it was arguably more convenient for the public to have their passport checked on the train at their seat i.e. they came to you -as happened on the continent virtually ever since international trains were invented until Schengen removed the need at all- than to have to join a slow moving line twice, didn't come in to it.

 

[riceuten]

Passport procedures get improved

I wouldn't hold your breath for that one.

 

[zwk500]

I wouldn't hold your breath for that one.

I'm not particularly optimistic, it's true. Although for me I'm less bothered as I hold both UK and EU passports, so it's a relatively smooth process as long as I give each border the right passport!

 

[burns20]

Currently on the 1104 St Pancras to Brussels Midi travelling Standard

Took 12 minutes from joining the "queue" to sitting down in the departure hall

 

[bspahh]

Currently on the 1104 St Pancras to Brussels Midi travelling Standard

Took 12 minutes from joining the "queue" to sitting down in the departure hall

What time did you join the queue?

 

[burns20]

0945, two trains were boarding too

A 1031 to Paris as well I think

 

[riceuten]

There are days and times when it's quiet, but there are more oftentimes large queues and bottlenecks that will continue to be an issue. I do think the luggage check are badly organised, OTT and the major causes of delay. It seems bizarre that I can travel across numerous frontiers on mainland Europe on a train that I do not need my baggage searching for, including through lengthy tunnels.

 

[Trainbike46]

0945, two trains were boarding too

A 1031 to Paris as well I think

It may just depend on how many people are booked on the trains, and how many members of staff are off sick.

And possibly, they have been able to recruit some more staff?

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the attraction to the Home Office of juxtaposed passport checks is that with British officials checking passports on French soil, it is impossible for people to arrive in the U.K. and claim asylum; they're still in France.

With passport checks on the train itself, that wouldn't work.

That's exactly why they exist. It works for both sides, as someone rejected from Schengen can be stopped in London rather than having to be detained and then formally deported. However, the problem is with the actual implementation. It should be perfectly possible to set up automated machines which would serve as both the Schengen and UK controls, and then passengers would be directed for a physical identity and baggage check based on intelligence and physical observations.

It's too late now, but I'll draw up an example later to share. In general, most EU+UK passengers shouldn't need a physical check of any kind on Eurostar.

 

[edwin_m]

On my return from Paris yesterday I'd heard about the RER strikes so allowed extra time to walk to a further away Metro stop, and ended up arriving 2hr before my 1313 departure. Reasonably quick to get through the various checks but all trains were running about 30min late. This was apparently due to being one set down and stepping up each arrival to form an earlier departure than planned, possibly as a result of previous day's disruption in the UK. The throughput of the Gare du Nord didn't seem to be a contributory factor, though as mentioned before the capacity of the lounge is certainly exceeded if everyone arrives early.

I guess the double gates are here to stay, because trying to interface the security and software protocols of two different administrations is a major hassle and not worth it when the vast majority of these gates (at airports) don't need it. Not necessarily a problem other than needing a bit more space.

 

[MadMarsupial]

Today ( 30th June ) no passport checks or security at Rotterdam. We were allowed on the train but were offloaded at Brussels to leave the train and to go through their Eurostar entrance security procedures. Little help or direction on leaving the train but if you found your way to the Eurostar entrance the system worked very well. Arrived 78 minutes late at St Pancras so 30% voucher or 25% cash due. We were told over the pa that the problem was due to industrial action by Dutch security staff?

 

[DanielB]

I'm not aware of any strike by security staff yesterday. But quite recently another traveller experienced similar delays which was due to broken equipment for scanning passports in Rotterdam.